Peterborough North

[coachmann]

A 1942-er here so I've known LNER locos and a few carrying LMS as well on rail journeys. The exciting bit was seeing the new locos coming on stream from books (Thompson and Peppercorn Pacifics were popular with illustrators of the time) plus brightly painted blood & custard carriages in place of the "brown" or maroon ones. Gas masks yes, rose tinted specs never!

[great northern]

Two more carriages completed, both Dia 186 TSO's. One is a Hornby conversion, the other from a Comet kit, built mainly by our favourite duck, and completed by TW and myself.

The camera shows up one bit of painting I missed, but otherwise reinforces my view that the conversions really aren't bad at all. These two will now join an existing TSO to make up a three coach set, which will live in a cassette. They will appear, as in real formations, topped and tailed by appropriate brakes as five coach formations, or occasionally as the passenger carrying vars in one or two of the wierd parliamentary trains that were mainly composed of non passenger carrying stock. All in all, a very good result.

[davidw]

Gilbert, I assume the kit in the one on the left?

[coachmann]

I jack my Hornby chassis up with 20thou spacers between the bogie pins and the body. They look better particularly when the chassis has not been narrowed, but i did it essentially so thye would match up with my other LNE and LMS coaches. The two opens look very neat. The MJT D27 open third makes and interesting variant, and some were also used with their 2 + 1 seating for dining purposes - if you have a kitchen dining car.

[Mallard60022]

Wow Gilbert, you have made a star job of that completion mate. Can I have it back now.........

Quack.

[great northern]

Gilbert, I assume the kit in the one on the left?

It is indeed David. Hopefully it wasn't too easy to spot, though the bogies give it away.

[great northern]

I jack my Hornby chassis up with 20thou spacers between the bogie pins and the body. They look better particularly when the chassis has not been narrowed, but i did it essentially so thye would match up with my other LNE and LMS coaches. The two opens look very neat. The MJT D27 open third makes and interesting variant, and some were also used with their 2 + 1 seating for dining purposes - if you have a kitchen dining car.

I do have a Dia 27 third Larry, and it will go into a cassette with another conversion - a Dia 10c/144 RF, when that one is finished. I've trawled through all the summer 1958 Official formations, and found that RF/SO was the most common catering combination. It will be available to be slotted into appropriate trains when needed, topped and tailed with coaches from other cassettes. I do like this cassette system!

[Tony Wright]

Two more carriages completed, both Dia 186 TSO's. One is a Hornby conversion, the other from a Comet kit, built mainly by our favourite duck, and completed by TW and myself.

TSO 1.jpg

TSO 2.jpg

The camera shows up one bit of painting I missed, but otherwise reinforces my view that the conversions really aren't bad at all. These two will now join an existing TSO to make up a three coach set, which will live in a cassette. They will appear, as in real formations, topped and tailed by appropriate brakes as five coach formations, or occasionally as the passenger carrying vars in one or two of the wierd parliamentary trains that were mainly composed of non passenger carrying stock. All in all, a very good result.

As individual vehicles, both look quite good in the layout setting, but as adjacent vehicles they don't seem to work anywhere near so well. 

 

Though I didn't check this during the conversion/completion stage (they left my house complete with the exception of end-painting, roof-painting and weathering), and I should have done, they just don't match the way they should. I'm talking here about the ride-height and some other factors. 

 

There is far too much 'daylight' underneath the Comet carriage and the solebars seem really puny in my opinion. It was beautifully-made (by Mr. Duck), so I didn't bother checking such things, but, in comparison with the conversion, it just isn't compatible. It could be that the Hornby solebars are a bit too deep (and because I didn't thin the floor pan, this appearance could be exacerbated) and/or the Hornby carriage rides too low (as alluded to by Larry). The gangways don't match (I put them on the kit-built one), neither do the cantrails or the bases of the bodies. The Comet buffers are no more than stumps (even retracted, they should be longer than this, surely?) and, of the two, I feel the conversion captures the 'heavy' look of Gresley's splendid carriages much more, despite, as said, the beautiful building (in terms of constructional neatness) of the Comet vehicle.

 

I cannot remember now about the building of my own Comet coaches, except I didn't use their bogies. Just checking, none of mine appears to ride anywhere near as high as the one on the left in the shot. 

 

So, lower the Comet model and raise up the Hornby one might be the answer. I can see them coming back!

Edited August 7, 2014 by Tony Wright

[coachmann]

As a full time carriage builder, I can tell you ride-height can be vexing at times. I have been using cast bolsters and a 3-point suspension for 13 years but the caster seems to have used these bolsters as balancing weights in the mould so what arrives in the bag are first, second and third generation castings; all different heights. This means i have to pair them off and jack bogies up at times. Having recently adopted a new range of bogies (that don't require 3-point suspension) in place of my own white metal castings, I can now etch the bolsters in the certain knowledge they are all the same height.

[great northern]

A rare day with nothing in the diary, and one look through the window removed any thought of outside activities, so at long last back to the railway.  We are still in the "dead hour" and little (well nothing actually), has happened since the last set of photos, but here is a record of what did take place today, under suitably leaden skies.

An arrival from the E.Lincs line rolls in behind a shabby K3. This otherwise unremarkable train from Grimsby for some reason ran on to Kings Cross on Fridays, though not advertised as doing so in the public timetable. Can any of our ex railwaymen explain the thinking behind that? How many people are going to use a service which they do not know exists?

Whatever the reason, the K3 now passes Dante, still waiting for the right away with a Newcastle relief.

And pauses to pick up any passengers for KX who actually know about the service. Class B lamps, as the train will be on the slow line for most of its journey to the Cross.

In the meantime, a C12 has propelled the stock for the 3.22pm to East station into number one bay.

And, the K3 having departed, a Spital Bridge 4F has moved down from the North yard to couple up to the train.

here's another shot of the 4F, as it hasn't featured much before .

And a sign that something more exciting may happen soon, as 60143 crosses to the Down main, before backing into number 4 bay.

Sir Walter was a Gateshead engine, and far from common down here, so some of those spotters could well be jumping for joy, or they might if they weren't glued down anyway. 60143 will be taking over the Northumbrian, but it isn't due yet............

[Mallard60022]

Thank you for brightening up an otherwise ***** afternoon. Lovely.

P

[HerbertHopkins]

. This otherwise unremarkable train from Grimsby for some reason ran on to Kings Cross on Fridays, though not advertised as doing so in the public timetable. Can any of our ex railwaymen explain the thinking behind that? How many people are going to use a service which they do not know exists?

 

 

 

If this was during the summer, perhaps it was so that another set of carriages would be available at Kings Cross on Saturday for the holiday traffic. 

[Oldddudders]

If this was during the summer, perhaps it was so that another set of carriages would be available at Kings Cross on Saturday for the holiday traffic. 

Entirely plausible, but I infer this ghost-train would have arrived in the smoke late afternoon, so perhaps then formed an FO train back to Lincolnshire?

[HerbertHopkins]

Entirely plausible, but I infer this ghost-train would have arrived in the smoke late afternoon, so perhaps then formed an FO train back to Lincolnshire?

 

You could well be right. I believe Gilbert has a copy of the WTT for summer 1958, perhaps he can confirm if such a duty did indeed run on a Friday evening.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The 1959 timetable shows the 12.30pm Grimsby Town - P'boro extended FO from 3rd July (and advertised as such) to KX.

 

Could've been used to provide stock for a SO relief to, say, Skegness. The 11.40 SO KX - Newcastle ran from 4th July - wonder if the stock was used for that? 

[CUTLER2579]

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Gilbert,

 I am getting seriously worried about that "Duck" !!  Is he having a Mid - Life crisis or is he just plain Quackers.

[jwealleans]

Quackers?!!!  That's Jenny Agutter.  Nothing wrong with Mr Duck in my book.

 

As long as he doesn't start pretending to be her.

[great northern]

 

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Gilbert,

 I am getting seriously worried about that "Duck" !!  Is he having a Mid - Life crisis or is he just plain Quackers.

 

No, he just gets into a bit of a flap now and then, that's all.

[bigwordsmith]

All I can say is that Mr. Duck far from enjoying a mid life crisis, seems to be providing hours of enjoyment for us between the passing of Gilbert's excellent trains!

[bigwordsmith]

Are any of you going to Coventry for RM Live?  I think the creation of Waverley's new home, sorry change that: I meant of course, Mrs. Smiths' new kitchen, means I'll have to pass.

 

Interesting rant in this month's BRM about the 'exhibition mania' that seems to be sweeping layout builders.

[Mallard60022]

 

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Gilbert,

 I am getting seriously worried about that "Duck" !!  Is he having a Mid - Life crisis or is he just plain Quackers.

 

My mid life crisis happened just after Ian Botham retired. It didn't hurt much either.

P

[westerner]

Gosh Phil, I didn't know you were THAT old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[great northern]

Entirely plausible, but I infer this ghost-train would have arrived in the smoke late afternoon, so perhaps then formed an FO train back to Lincolnshire?

 

If this was during the summer, perhaps it was so that another set of carriages would be available at Kings Cross on Saturday for the holiday traffic. 

 

You could well be right. I believe Gilbert has a copy of the WTT for summer 1958, perhaps he can confirm if such a duty did indeed run on a Friday.

 

Summer 1958 WTT duly consulted, which I suppose I should have done in the first place. The train arrived at KX 4.42pm, over four hours after leaving Grimsby. Much staying power was needed in those days!  The return duty is shown as the 11.08 am SO KX - Skegness, so Rob was spot on. I've got a bit confused though, as my formation is the correct one for the Monday to Thursday train, which also ran through to KX, the stock returning as the 4.19pm KX- Peterborough the following day. This is the one that didn't appear in the public timetable between PN and KX. All a bit complicated really, and I suspect almost impossible to get "right". Perhaps I should lower my sights a little.

[Oldddudders]

Perhaps I should lower my sights a little.

 

No! Understanding what the prototype did is critical to feeling good about operations on PN, having spent so much time and effort on visual authenticity. How you "interpret" the real moves in miniature is about being pragmatic. That is not lowering your sights at all.

[CUTLER2579]

Phil,

Ian who.?

 

I know of an Ian Botham who does charity walks for Leukaemia Research, but i don't think you will find he has retired.

 

Probably just resting between walks.I believe he hails from Heswall, Cheshire, England.Born in November 1955. Quite old really ?

 

Regards Derek.