Peterborough North

[cornish trains jez]

I really like the aerial shots Gilbert. It really shows how amazing your layout is.

[New Haven Neil]

Indeed, a nice new selection of viewpoints Gilbert, and the N5's presence was preserved!

[Theakerr]

As I remember, as soon as the train started moving it was OK to sell alcohol.  It was also OK if the rain stopped for a signal or whatever outside a station.  I am not sure of it could be served when the train was stationary but within local licened hours

[S.A.C Martin]

62822 Was shedded Grantham 1/47-11/50, becoming the last of the class in service, and the only one with a smokebox numberplate.

 

Summer/49 62822 Last of Class in service.  Shedded Grantham.  Worked 0632 Grantham-Nottingham passenger, returning on pick-up goods from      Colwick, then 1605 Grantham-Boston passenger, 2100 Boston-Colwick goods, then light engine to Grantham.    

 

From 7/47-12/50 the last GCR Atlantic, 2818 was shedded at Lincoln, and working local services

 

Sorry to be a bit slow to the party. However the second GNR loco picture doesn't show 62822 but another of the class with the number ending 85. Fascinating detail difference, with no smokebox number present but otherwise identical to how 62822 was from 1948 up to her withdrawal and before her tender was swapped for her last few runs.

[Fat Controller]

I can understand that as technically sales of alcohol were allowed on a train in motion which meant not when it was stationary but i reckon it was probably observed more in the breach.

 

I found it rather pleasant in the late '60s/early '70s to have a few cans of McEwans after breakfast on the West Highland sleeper back  in the days when the restaurant car worked through to Mallaig.  On a totally irrelevant point the crew of that car at that time worked the longest booked turn of duty on BR as they did Gasgow to Mallaig and back in their working day (one day on, one day off was their rostered working).

I recollect that the Ffestiniog used to make much of the fact that its buffet cars were the only (official) place to serve alcohol on a Sunday in Gwynedd, exploiting this fact. A similar rule used to apply to cross-Channel ferries; in the days of 10:30 closing, I caught the late evening ferry from Southampton to Le Havre on several occasions ; the bar would stay shut until we were underway, when it would miraculously open..

[unclebobkt]

It seems like a very long time since any trains ran - those of you who have been eagerly awaiting the arrival of the Northumbrian must have got very bored. Life goes on though, and normal service has been resumed. Our very own Duck kindly came and spent some time with me during the week, and mentioned that he prefers the scenes from on high, so for him and those of a like persuasion, here are some helicopter shots. What's more, they are unadulterated. , for those who prefer to see warts and all. Actually there are no warts on view, but as usual plenty of extraneous objects that I didn't notice until too late. Off  we go then, and here comes a Down express, while Sir Walter Scott waits patiently in the bay.

114 and 143.jpg

He will have to be patient a while longer though, as this is the 1.52pm KX - Doncaster, behind a 36A based A1. "Wap" Allen we called it for some reason.

114 1.jpg

114 3.jpg

Up in the helicopter now....

114 4.jpg

You may notice, but will no doubt be too polite to mention. a large piece of white card. How could I miss that? Warts and all I said though.

south end 4F.jpg

Helicopter is down t'other end now, and banking fairly sharply by the look of things. The 4F on the 3.32pm to East is still waiting too.

114 and 143 2.jpg

Back to the North end, for another look at the A1s. I suspect those scissors aren't to scale.

114 pulling away.jpg

 

60114 now leaves, and what's this?

28 1.jpg

Hot on its heels, at last the Northumbrian.

28 2.jpg

I nearly made a very bad mistake here, as I was going to crop out the workbench in the background, Had I done so though, I would have removed the N5 too, and one of our regulars might well have sent the boys round if I did that.

triplet.jpg

 It is 3.30pm. Were trains subject to normal licencing hours? Can anyone enlighten me on that?28 3.jpg

 

The Top shed A4 draws to a standstill, and will shortly be on its way to New England.

28 4.jpg

And I suppose you want to know which one it is. Only Walter K Whigham again. By this time that white card was bugging me too much, so we have a sky, but its the last shot folks, for now anyway.

 

 -- To the best of my memory railway trains were not subject to the usual Licencing Hours - hence the reason for the 'Titfield Thunderbolt.' - ha! Ha!!

[great northern]

I recollect that the Ffestiniog used to make much of the fact that its buffet cars were the only (official) place to serve alcohol on a Sunday in Gwynedd, exploiting this fact. A similar rule used to apply to cross-Channel ferries; in the days of 10:30 closing, I caught the late evening ferry from Southampton to Le Havre on several occasions ; the bar would stay shut until we were underway, when it would miraculously open..

We used to go to Criccieth for family holidays in the late '50's/early '60's, and our hotel bar was always heaving with locals on Sunday lunchtimes, as it was the only place that served alcohol for miles around apparently. The whole thing was ridiculous really, the worst being the stampede of cars across county boundaries, driven by those who had already had too many, so that they could down a few more.

[Mallard60022]

Thank you Gilbert. I hope you don't mind me duplicating one of your lovely shots here? This is one of my favourites from your recent batches

 

If I ever   when Seatonish gets sorted and just hope I can achieve some similar scenes, however it will be of a different part of the world and the locomotives and stock will be unfamiliar to your spotters.

Phil

 

P.S. Thanks so much for the company and chat.

[The Stationmaster]

I recollect that the Ffestiniog used to make much of the fact that its buffet cars were the only (official) place to serve alcohol on a Sunday in Gwynedd, exploiting this fact. A similar rule used to apply to cross-Channel ferries; in the days of 10:30 closing, I caught the late evening ferry from Southampton to Le Havre on several occasions ; the bar would stay shut until we were underway, when it would miraculously open..

The rules on ferries seem to have been fairly straightforward - they couldn't serve alcohol to passengers while inside the UK 3 mile limit (as it then was) but once outside it they could open whenever they liked (I'm not sure about foreign ports but probably the same for Ireland I would think).

[The Blue Streak]

With the mighty Duck on spotting duties at Peterborough, seems a pity his namesake didn't make an appearance.
Still Sea Eagle is a worthy cop all the same. ( I still think the original A4 names were far better)

P.S. up to page 179 Chaps, I'm getting there. Oh BTW a certain Streamlined 4 - 6 - 4 has turned up on that particular page, after 178 pages of "it'll never happen" - funny that !!!

 

P.P.S. I should also add that I for one am glad that you changed your mind about the W1 Gilbert. She's a cracker!

What a pity that she never carried a nameplate, although two sets were cast for her- "British Enterprise" by Darlington and "Pegasus" by Doncaster.

Regards Ted

Edited August 26, 2014 by The Blue Streak

[islandbridgejct]

The rules on ferries seem to have been fairly straightforward - they couldn't serve alcohol to passengers while inside the UK 3 mile limit (as it then was) but once outside it they could open whenever they liked (I'm not sure about foreign ports but probably the same for Ireland I would think).

 

Interesting discussion. The Intoxicating Liquor Act 1927 provides (over here):

 

14.—Nothing in this Act shall be deemed to prohibit or restrict—

(a) the sale at any time at a railway station of intoxicating liquor on arrival or departure of trains to passengers who have travelled or hold tickets entitling them to travel on those trains for a distance of not less than ten miles to or from such railway station, or

(b) the supplying at any time of intoxicating liquor on licensed premises to any private friends of the holder of the licence bona fide entertained by him at his own expense in any part of such licensed premises other than the part in which the sale of intoxicating liquor generally takes place, or

(c) the sale of intoxicating liquor in passenger vessels in pursuance of the Acts in that behalf, or

(d) the sale of intoxicating liquor for consumption on a railway restaurant car in pursuance of the Acts in that behalf, or

 

So railway refreshment rooms could serve passengers, and so could restaurant cars. I imagine there was something similar in the UK: the Irish Free State and His Majesty shared a disapprobation of the intoxicated state, though their citizens or subjects found it hard to work up the same fervour.

 

My grandfather used to avail of his rights as a bona fide traveller, which involved driving 5 miles outside the City boundary to a pub which could then serve him outside hours, and it seems this right also existed in England: http://www.pubhistorysociety.co.uk/1872.html . A great man for the old drink driving was the grandfather, and, being a solicitor, he knew his licensing law. Judging by the link, the English interpretation was stricter; but implementation is where we always fall down. The Scots, as you know, never touch a drop, so none of this applies to them.

 

A vessel outside territorial waters is subject to the law of the state whose flag it flies. For an Irish vessel, that means it would be totally exempt from licensing hours.

 

An interesting aspect of the Irish laws is the number of people who travelled by train on Good Friday, a day when all pubs were closed by virtue of Section 2 of the same Act. A recent article in the Irish Railway Record Society Journal detailed a time-keeping trip from Dublin Kingsbridge to Athlone on a Good Friday, and notes that the train was well packed and that the GSR added two extra carriages at the last minute. There was much head scratching here about the number of people packing the train until I realised - a bank holiday and not a drink to be had the length and breadth of the country. Presumably the passengers repaired to the station refreshment room in Athlone, or exercised their rights as bona fide travellers in a local public house. The same restrictions applied on Christmas Day and Saint Patrick's Day, but trains would not run on those days.

 

I hope these are of use: Irish laws are based on pre-independence UK laws which were generally the same or similar.

[Mallard60022]

Oh those timeless summer days of childhood. Little did we know how much we were then to enjoy the world of adulthood and work.........actually I have enjoyed most of that for about 45 years, but...!

Now I'm told this morning by my line manager that I can't start work earlier than 06.00 in case he needs to see me about something and the CC's insurance does not 'start' until 06.00. What a load of boll***s. What happens if I'm called out to a break in or similar out of hours incident?

I am now forced ​ tasked to empty shi**y nappy bins as the CC has cancelled part of the Hygiene Co's contract; they still come to the building to change the 'women's bins' so why not the crap bins?

I've had my hours cut without consultation or agreement by me and am now doing far more work than I was contracted to originally and 'have to be flexible' to suit the building managers arrangements. It was recently suggested by a new manager that I was lucky to have a job - I'm 66 years old for God's sake, I don't need to do it any more.

I think it's about time I gave some other poor sod deserving soul the opportunity to have a job 'cause I think it's about time I played trains and drank tea more than I do already.

Pah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Right, back to reality - lovely 01s; how I'd enjoy seeing one climbing Clarborough Bank.

P

(apologies for rant.... I'm just feeling pi**ed off)

By the way, I have just handed in my resignation as I really have had enough (and earned enough 'extra' to pay for my new layout  )

Some of you will understand why today in particular I say that life is too short.........

RIP Dave

Phil

Edited August 26, 2014 by Mallard60022

[bigwordsmith]

ah Phil

All the more time to find interesting pix of mrs Duck for our entertainment!

 

A sad day indeed!

 

Peter

[Mallard60022]

ah Phil

All the more time to find interesting pix of mrs Duck for our entertainment!

 

A sad day indeed!

 

Peter

I'm going to try to get my layout sorted and leave 'interesting pix' searches to those that have the energy for such matters.

It's all very well being the 'silly duck' but I think it is about time I got on with railway modelling. It won't be Tetley's Mills, Peterborough North, Grantham or Little Bytham, but it will be a bit Express Dairies, Seaton Junction style.

Cheers matey.

Phil

[Richard E]

Phil,

 

I'm sure I echo the thoughts of others in saying tell us, and show us, all about it irrespective of how good or bad you think it is - let us be the judges, we don't bite (well, only if it is crispy duck )

Edited August 26, 2014 by Richard E

[Theakerr]

Congratulations Mallard.  Under similar but different circumstances I walked and it was the best thing I ever did.  Lots of time for the MR and motorcycling.  I think there is a potential PhD subject looking at just how many older folks have been "pushed" out.  Back to PN, loved that arial shot. 

[New Haven Neil]

Snap, ish,  Still no time for modelling apparent though!

[Richard E]

Funnily enough, with the way work is at present, I'm considering walking. Trouble is I really need another two or three years of earning before I retire (again). If I do at least I could get started on all the things I want and need to do including the model railway.

[great northern]

I was offered early retirement from my job twelve years ago, and I snapped it up even though I had reservations as to whether it was economically viable. I did that because it was no longer the job I used to enjoy, and I could see that things were only going to get worse. I've never regretted that, and luckily I fell on my feet when it came to looking for part time work. A couple of years ago though I just felt the time had come to stop, and so I did. I now have less disposable income, but more time to do the things I want to do. I already had no regrets, but Dave's passing has illustrated all too well that we can make no assumptions as to the future, and reinforced my view that I made the right decision. I've done my share, 49 years, Phil the Duck is in the same position, and I suspect Richard E may be too, as he talks of retiring again.  Get out of it and enjoy what you can while you can is my view, money isn't everything.

[bigwordsmith]

As I've still not yet hit the big six-oh (just) The idea of retiring is not even on my horizon, but then I've worked for myself for 30-odd years and had the pleasure of what is today called a 'portfolio career'.

 

Actually I think it's just a polite way of saying 'great ideas, but can't hold down a proper job'

 

Anyway, my professional life nowadays focuses around things which are reasonably lucrative when they happen, but interspersed with sometimes lengthy periods of non-earning, so there is always the worry at the back of one's mind about where the next piece of work will come from.

 

As someone who doesn't have a final salary pension scheme, and like most self-employed people found a couple of years ago that the pension providers were taking a disproportionate share of one's contributions, the potential for kicking back and doing nowt anytime soon, simply ain't there.

 

Having said that, I also find that dealing with a lot of  younger clients, as well as working with a couple of local FE colleges in a business advisor role for sixth formers, helps to keep one thoroughly grounded in the contemporary, rather than inextricably linked to the past. In that respect I actually find the idea of retiring a bit frightening!

 

My late and beloved father, who is 100% responsible for my love of all things Gresley, retired at the age of 60 and lived to just past his 90th Birthday.

 

I recall when he was about 75 he joined an organisation called 'Probus' and attended three or four of their lunches at my mother's suggestion. I asked him what he thought of it, and in his ironic gentle Scottish brogue he replied. "Couldn't be doing with them, a bunch of grumpy old men with nothing better to do than sit around talking about who they used to be."

 

Certainly I see from my peers, some of whom have retired early, the risk of getting out of touch with today - I don't know where the tipping point is, but somewhere there is definitely a point where nostalgia becomes more important than looking forward, and I personally dread that day.

[coachmann]

No matter how old one is, keeping young is vital. Working, in my view, focusses the mind and daily exercise like at least one brisk 25 minute walk a day keeps the body functioning as it should (keep the bowels open boyo!) 

 

Theres more to it than that, as I discovered, and a diet change might also be worth considering to help counter the things that old age brings with it.

Edited August 30, 2014 by coachmann

[The Stationmaster]

 

Certainly I see from my peers, some of whom have retired early, the risk of getting out of touch with today - I don't know where the tipping point is, but somewhere there is definitely a point where nostalgia becomes more important than looking forward, and I personally dread that day.

(with apologies to Gilbert for continuing the digression)

 

Following health problems I 'retired' from the big railway at the grand old age of 52 but continued working on an 'occasional' basis in a new career with a signal engineering company although still dealing mainly with railway operational matters and safety; that kept me well in touch with the railway.  Subsequently I did the same with a pal when he moved into railway consultancy and i still remain very much in touch with railway safety matters - and I sometimes wonder if nostalgia might have been an awful lot better than some of the things I have seen from my 'outside the fence' viewpoint.

 

Over the years I saw numerous men take early retirement - often after hard physical working lives, some after a working life in an office.  The one common thing, certain almost unavoidable illnesses apart, is that the ones who follow Coach's advice generally tend to be the ones who last.  The ones who sit in the corner and read the 'paper and do little else are very often the early departures.

[62613]

We used to go to Criccieth for family holidays in the late '50's/early '60's, and our hotel bar was always heaving with locals on Sunday lunchtimes, as it was the only place that served alcohol for miles around apparently. The whole thing was ridiculous really, the worst being the stampede of cars across county boundaries, driven by those who had already had too many, so that they could down a few more.

....Which reminds me of the folks that used to cross the river from The Ferry Tavern in South Shields (closing time 10.30 p.m.) to The Jungle and other such places in North Shields (closing time 11.00 p.m.)

Edited August 30, 2014 by 62613

[New Haven Neil]

....Which reminds me of the folks that used to cross the river from The Ferry Tavern in South Shields (closing time 10.30 p.m.) to The Jungle and other such places in North Shields (closing time 11.00 p.m.)

 

I'm saying nowt.

[Mallard60022]

Well thanks Gilbert. I appreciate your support and shall wear it during board shifting in the loft. Very thoughtful words matey.

Anyhow to those still working, keep doing it until you can't stand it any longer. I've given up as I can't face having to go to work in the dark and then spending most of November and December sweeping tons of leaves and having to hoist them into a bin and trying to coax a totally inadequate heating system into functioning at some sort of useful level. I'm also too tired, after 50 years employed, to carry on to be frank.

However, most of all it is the situation where so many people I know, or are contemporaries, either dying or getting ill or losing mobility that has sent me the message to get on and do something before I can't!

I don't give a to*s if I become out of touch by not doing any work as such. I've been out of touch with reality for donkey's years anyway so no change there. In fact by leaving I am creating the possibility of a transfer for a colleague that hates her present job! Am I not then a philanthropist with a strong social conscience?

That's enough of this, let's get back to seeing how brilliant Peterborough North is and how damn fine fun it is being associated with the banter and discussion that goes with this thread.

Cheers.

Phil the quackers 'duck'.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Mallard60022