Peterborough North

[great northern]

A belated thanks for the eclectic stock answer Gilbert, makes much more sense now!

 

I'm thinking that when the new V2s are released, because they are only doing a late crest with double chimney and outside pipes, I might be an LNER liveried one and paint it in goods loco black if there were any in such livery, or were they all lined black until a few got greened up so to speak? 

 

I just wish they would hurry up and release them, my locoholism is making my wallet nervous again...

I am assured that the double chimney will be very easily removed as will the steam pipes, so they won't be a problem. though for you of course the green livery is. They were always, theoretically at least, lined black between whenever they first got painted in BR days and late 56, but most were so grimy that the lining couldn't be seen anyway, so some very heavy weathering might do the trick. I bet there were still one or two running in very shabby LNER black livery until 50/51 as well, so I reckon you could justify that alongside blue Pacifics.

 

I've had a look at Yeadon, and it seems that all V2s were in unlined black until July 1948, except three given special treatment. I've found several that would therefore have been unlined until their next general, some of which weren't until 1950, and I'll bet that one or two may have lasted even longer than that.

Edited May 31, 2016 by great northern

[great northern]

A couple more this morning, starting with a different angle on the N5.

and then focusing on a nice clean B17, waiting in the bay to take over the Glasgow- Colchester, which is due shortly. For some reason the Up train does not appear in my official formations book, so I'm going to have to guess at the stock.

[trw1089]

I am assured that the double chimney will be very easily removed as will the steam pipes, so they won't be a problem. though for you of course the green livery is. They were always, theoretically at least, lined black between whenever they first got painted in BR days and late 56, but most were so grimy that the lining couldn't be seen anyway, so some very heavy weathering might do the trick. I bet there were still one or two running in very shabby LNER black livery until 50/51 as well, so I reckon you could justify that alongside blue Pacifics.

 

I've had a look at Yeadon, and it seems that all V2s were in unlined black until July 1948, except three given special treatment. I've found several that would therefore have been unlined until their next general, some of which weren't until 1950, and I'll bet that one or two may have lasted even longer than that.

Thanks Gilbert, much appreciated. You're right about locos with LNER livery surviving into the early 50s, I've seen a few examples, but maybe I need to bite the bullet and do up a lined black one. Must get that Yeadons too, they come in so handy!

 

Cheers

Tony

[glo41f]

Just catching up after some time away. What amazing pictures you take Gilbert. They have a character and quality which shows the high skill level of your modelling. For my part, I think the maroon coaches look fine and I can recall them being all shades when running. This is also replicated on heritage railways where you can see several shades within the same train. Love the B17s as well and can readily imagine them hustling their way further east.

 

Thank you so much for sharing and evoking so many memories.

 

Martin Long

[gresley]

A couple more this morning, starting with a different angle on the N5.

N5 1.jpg

and then focusing on a nice clean B17, waiting in the bay to take over the Glasgow- Colchester, which is due shortly. For some reason the Up train does not appear in my official formations book, so I'm going to have to guess at the stock.

1641 1.jpg

Hi Gilbert,

 

I guess that having poles coming out of chimneys is now out of fashion, so you've done a great alternative - nameplate hiddden behind a trolley load of parcels.

Makes a nice change !!

 

Stuart

[Richard E]

Hi Gilbert,

 

I guess that having poles coming out of chimneys is now out of fashion, so you've done a great alternative - nameplate hiddden behind a trolley load of parcels.

Makes a nice change !!

 

Stuart

Yes, but what about that lamp mounted on the firebox?

 

OK the column is visible but at a glance the eye doesn't really take it in ....

[davidw]

Gilbert do you know when the last v2 was repainted from black to BR green?

[great northern]

Gilbert do you know when the last v2 was repainted from black to BR green?

I can't remember having seen a definitive answer to that, David, but it intrigued me, and so i've done a bit of detective work. According to Railway Observer, only 14 V2s were believed still to be in black as at 16/11/58. Then I went to Yeadon and looked uo those locos, which were 60801/43/50/53/58/65/76/83/85/92 and 60913/53/60/65. I think nearly all are correct, as all are shown to have had their last general overhaul before green livery was introduced. The only caveat is that with other classes, particularly B17s, Darlington is shown to have painted some in a new colour, and then reverted to the old for one or two later overhauls.

 

Anyway, all of these engines are shown to have gone in for generals after November 1958, which would be consistent with late 1956 overhauls, save for 60883, which is shown as having a general in October/November 1957. I find it hard to believe that it came out in black ten months after the decision to paint V2s green. Its next general is shown as 5/8/59, totally consistent with the 1957 data. If RO is correct, 60883 was the last but one in black, but for the reasons I have specified, I do not think it was still black in 1958.

 

If, and this is all speculation, I am right, we find several generals from December 1958 to March 1959, and then two later ones. The first of those was 60801, into Darlington on 19/5/59, last general having been on 7/12/56, which would be consistent with it being one of the last repaints before green came in. She was a Tweedmouth engine, which might account for the long period between full overhauls. The winner though, and last in black by any calculation, would be 60865. Last heavy intermediate is recorded as November 1956, after which she had nothing but non classified repairs until she entered works on 14/8/59 for an overhaul which saw separate cylinders and full ATC fitted. She was a Copley Hill engine until September 1958, when she went to...... Tweedmouth.

 

All the evidence therefore points to 60865 being the answer to your question, subject of course to the information in both RO and Yeadon being correct, and to my not having messed up the way to interpret it. It was an interesting little challenge anyway.

[Mallard60022]

A1 north stuffed at North Muskham so Norwell got yet another visit. 

There we go, work that one out you lot.

Personally I rather like the intrigue of 'hidden nameplates' as I have to get my IA ABC and look it up.

As for lamps on fireboxes..........................nah!

However, the spare dome and funnel top dumped in the tender is quite a good laugh; fireman has been round the back of the shed again, collecting artefacts to sell  down the market.

Ar$e

Edited May 31, 2016 by Mallard60022

[Leander]

A couple more this morning, starting with a different angle on the N5.

N5 1.jpg

and then focusing on a nice clean B17, waiting in the bay to take over the Glasgow- Colchester, which is due shortly. For some reason the Up train does not appear in my official formations book, so I'm going to have to guess at the stock.

1641 1.jpg

 

Page 92 of the BR(E) Colchester line CWD for summer 1958 gives the formation of the 10.00pm Glasgow-Colchester working Gilbert.

 

Find it at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32711444/Carriage_workings/ER_NER/ER_1958_Summer_Colchester_CW.pdf on Robert Carrol's Yahoo group site.

[davidw]

I can't remember having seen a definitive answer to that, David, but it intrigued me, and so i've done a bit of detective work. According to Railway Observer, only 14 V2s were believed still to be in black as at 16/11/58. Then I went to Yeadon and looked uo those locos, which were 60801/43/50/53/58/65/76/83/85/92 and 60913/53/60/65. I think nearly all are correct, as all are shown to have had their last general overhaul before green livery was introduced. The only caveat is that with other classes, particularly B17s, Darlington is shown to have painted some in a new colour, and then reverted to the old for one or two later overhauls.

 

Anyway, all of these engines are shown to have gone in for generals after November 1958, which would be consistent with late 1956 overhauls, save for 60883, which is shown as having a general in October/November 1957. I find it hard to believe that it came out in black ten months after the decision to paint V2s green. Its next general is shown as 5/8/59, totally consistent with the 1957 data. If RO is correct, 60883 was the last but one in black, but for the reasons I have specified, I do not think it was still black in 1958.

 

If, and this is all speculation, I am right, we find several generals from December 1958 to March 1959, and then two later ones. The first of those was 60801, into Darlington on 19/5/59, last general having been on 7/12/56, which would be consistent with it being one of the last repaints before green came in. She was a Tweedmouth engine, which might account for the long period between full overhauls. The winner though, and last in black by any calculation, would be 60865. Last heavy intermediate is recorded as November 1956, after which she had nothing but non classified repairs until she entered works on 14/8/59 for an overhaul which saw separate cylinders and full ATC fitted. She was a Copley Hill engine until September 1958, when she went to...... Tweedmouth.

 

All the evidence therefore points to 60865 being the answer to your question, subject of course to the information in both RO and Yeadon being correct, and to my not having messed up the way to interpret it. It was an interesting little challenge anyway.

Wow thanks for such a comprehensive answer. I've another Graeme King v2 to do, I wondered if I could justify a black mixed traffic liveried version. Hopefully Graeme can be persuaded to do another run of bodies.

[great northern]

Hi Gilbert,

 

I guess that having poles coming out of chimneys is now out of fashion, so you've done a great alternative - nameplate hiddden behind a trolley load of parcels.

Makes a nice change !!

 

Stuart

Nothing wrong with a touch of mystery Stuart. Your combined volume will reveal all.

[great northern]

Page 92 of the BR(E) Colchester line CWD for summer 1958 gives the formation of the 10.00pm Glasgow-Colchester working Gilbert.

 

Find it at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32711444/Carriage_workings/ER_NER/ER_1958_Summer_Colchester_CW.pdf on Robert Carrol's Yahoo group site.

Thank you, that is very helpful. A much shorter formation, and mainly a passenger one. I can put that together no problem.

[great northern]

This evening, let us return to those black and white days.

The other station pilot is now in the North end Up bay, never used for passenger services by the way, and will attach that BG to the rear of the Glasgow- Colchester when it arrives.

Same scene from a bit further away. We have a different V2 on standby today, the one that brought that KX stopper in last thing yesterday. It looks even more run down than the previous one, so no doubt the crew will be hoping that its services will not be required.

[Northroader]

With the standby locos on the ECML, didn't the crew on the loco tend it and move on to the stricken train, then the train crew would take over and leave the standby gang with their old, failed loco.? Meaning the standby crew wouldn't be that bothered about the state of the loco?

[great northern]

With the standby locos on the ECML, didn't the crew on the loco tend it and move on to the stricken train, then the train crew would take over and leave the standby gang with their old, failed loco.? Meaning the standby crew wouldn't be that bothered about the state of the loco?

Yes, of course you are correct. Bill Hoole would have got the V2. He would probably have managed to keep time with it as well, but pity the poor fireman.

[great northern]

Yesterday I had two visitors, well, three actually, but one brought with him the other two.

Thus a most unusual, and probably unprecedented sight was witnessed at PN, but long before the spotters arrived of course. Who would have believed them anyway?

I think this may have been a Newcastle- Sidmouth holiday train that got lost and came down the GN instead of the GC.

 

Actually, it came with the chap who is now astonishing the disbelievers by beginning to have a running layout, and who wanted to check its DCC CVs. It worked perfectly, and of course I couldn't resist posing it where it would never have been seen.

[Mallard60022]

With the standby locos on the ECML, didn't the crew on the loco tend it and move on to the stricken train, then the train crew would take over and leave the standby gang with their old, failed loco.? Meaning the standby crew wouldn't be that bothered about the state of the loco?

That depended on the 'discipline' at the local Shed. Stand by engines (Pilots) at most major stations, in the better days (before steam run down), were kept in top nick as far as possible, even clean! Even in later years, even if the loco was filthy, it was often mechanically OK.

At PN it must have been a bit of a nightmare as it appears that the Shed discipline wasn't good (not convinced of this), so a Top Shed crew, having to ditch an engine at PN, would be absolutely furious if their replacement was a heap of scrap. Mr Townend would have been on the blower to  H. Q. as soon as he heard I am sure .

N. Gresley. 

Edited June 1, 2016 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

Yesterday I had two visitors, well, three actually, but one brought with him the other two.

N 1.jpg

Thus a most unusual, and probably unprecedented sight was witnessed at PN, but long before the spotters arrived of course. Who would have believed them anyway?

N 2.jpg

I think this may have been a Newcastle- Sidmouth holiday train that got lost and came down the GN instead of the GC.

 

Actually, it came with the chap who is now astonishing the disbelievers by beginning to have a running layout, and who wanted to check its DCC CVs. It worked perfectly, and of course I couldn't resist posing it where it would never have been seen.

What exactly a Redhill loco is doing on that service is anybodys' guess. Actually Gilbert, it could well be a Footex from PN to Reigate as there was a FA Cup Preliminary Round tie between Posh and Reigate Town in September 1958. The loco having been sent especially as the Chairman of Posh at that time was an ex SR Management Executive.

It was a 4 all draw, but Posh won the replay a little later (evening kick off so no spotters witnessed the return working).

If anyone thinks the loco is about to set off in reverse, please remember that many SR loco's had outside admission valves.  *

*From wikopeddalo: Inside and outside admission valves

The Walschaerts gear can be linked to inside or outside admission valves ............... but outside-admission valves (slide valves and some piston valves) can use Walschaerts valve gear. If the valves have outside admission the radius bar connects to the combination lever below the valve stem rather than above.

You all knew that though.

P. I. Noccio

Edited June 1, 2016 by Mallard60022

[Clearwater]

On the standby loco and crew point, I can see the logic why the train crew takes over in terms of shift patterns and that it would be a bit unfair on the standby crew to suddenly find themselves going off to Doncaster or where ever plus even in those days there must have been limits on how long crew could work before tests. However, if the loco and its condition is the train crew's responsibly to sign for, how could they be satisfied that the standby loco was up to scratch? If anything, I'd have thought the standby would have to be in tip top condition to prevent either tit for tat retaliations of using duff locos elsewhere and a level of one upmanship professional pride to show others that you can turn out locos better than them.

 

If the train crew was not satisfied and then failed the standby loco as well, I don't see how that would have been in the railway's wider interest hence I'd have thought every possible excuse for the train crew would be removed

 

David

[great northern]

Yes, I've got this wrong, in an attempt to bend things to suit my needs. I should have a V2 sitting doing nothing all day, as that is what happened in 1958, but I really don't have as many V2s as I need, and so I relegate the worst examples to this duty. I agree that would not have happened, and indeed I have read more than once that although New England engines looked pretty awful on the outside, internally they were generally sound, so a good 'un would have been selected for pilot duty. I should not have drawn attention to the general decrepitude of the locos I choose. They are right though for the KX slows, which would be just the sort of thing I think that would be allocated to something that needed to have its mileage increased before it could be proposed for shopping.

[westerner]

I do like the platform furniture and luggage in post 11352.

[great northern]

Let us return to our normal fare of LNER locos and stock. First we have the stock of the Doncaster Parly which the pilot is bringing in.

BZ BSK CK

all door SK and Thompson CK

end door SK and Thompson BSK

and BG at the rear. There should be another BZ in the middle, but that tiny spring in one of the kadees pinged off somewhere, and I can't see well enough to fit an new one, so it had to be left out.

Then an opportunity arose to get both pilots in the same shot.

but I think it looks better with a heavy crop.

[trw1089]

That last shot is an absolute cracker Gilbert, not sure why, but it just does it.

[Richard E]

All that last crop needs is a sheen on everything as if it has been raining, render it in black and white and it could be the real thing.

 

Somehow it really imparts bulk to the sheds in the background in just the way real life does and makes the railway sit in the scene. My only criticism is what looks like a small gap at the foot of the nearest platform wall but even that will be less prominent with using black and white.