Peterborough North

[great northern]

One more picture of the Compound, as it leaves Platform 6. Very back lit, so we have to ignore the inconvenient fact that the sun should be behind the photographer at this time of day.

[great northern]

I shall end the day with what is normally a sure fire winner, an A3, but not only an A3, one with single chimney and GN tender.

The 7.30 Grantham - KX rolls in under Spital Bridge, not of course what you would see at the real thing, but as it is on the model. I took away a bit too much ground cover to the left of the loco. This may be one of those situations where added smoke might be permissible, I think. The loco would almost be surrounded by the exhaust hitting the underside of the bridge. I, of course, have no idea how such an effect might be achieved.

and then a nice side on view of Victor Wild to finish with.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Just going back to commuting to London for a moment, in the early 1960s it wasn't really possible.

 

There were only four through trains that arrived at KX between 07.00 and 10.00 from Peterborough:

 

P'boro d. 05.51 (19.15 ex-Aberdeen - includes sleeping cars)

KX       a. 07.21

 

P'boro d. 07.05 (Starts at P'boro)

KX       a. 09.22

 

P'boro d. 07.53 (07.18 ex-Grantham)

KX       a. 09.40

 

P'boro d. 08.29 (07.37 ex-Newark)

KX       a. 09.50

[great northern]

Just going back to commuting to London for a moment, in the early 1960s it wasn't really possible.

 

There were only four through trains that arrived at KX between 07.00 and 10.00 from Peterborough:

 

P'boro d. 05.51 (19.15 ex-Aberdeen - includes sleeping cars)

KX       a. 07.21

 

P'boro d. 07.05 (Starts at P'boro)

KX       a. 09.22

 

P'boro d. 07.53 (07.18 ex-Grantham)

KX       a. 09.40

 

P'boro d. 08.29 (07.37 ex-Newark)

KX       a. 09.50

Coincidentally, I was just looking this up as well. The 7.25 to KX I featured recently didn't get there till 1034, and was purely a local train. The 7.30 ex Grantham which is in the station now got to London at 9.55. no good at all for anyone expected to start work at 0900, as almost everyone did back then. Before that, leave at 0546 on the Aberdeen sleeper, and get to KX at 7.15. I think not.

 

Targetted commuter services this far out just didn't exist. I don't have the timetables, but I wonder if they did start once Peterborough was within reach of London in an hour on regular services? My recollection is that commuting from Grantham, and the property market explosion there, really started when that magic figure of an hour, or just over, became achievable.

[manna]

G'day Gents

I can remember that by the late 80's people were commuting from Leeds and Wakefield, some of the HST's were pretty crowded by the time they got to Doncaster.

 

manna

[great northern]

We shall now prove that an A3 looks good from any angle.

At the moment, I have lovely soft indirect light up to about 1100am, so I'm off to take some more.

[trw1089]

Every angle of A3 goodness, what joy!

[Northroader]

Every angle??http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--UFXYVptp--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/gwadodatxh43yymw11yt.jpg

[jwealleans]

Is that Castlecary?

Edited June 6, 2016 by jwealleans

[Northroader]

Goswick, just south of Berwick on Tweed, 27/10/47, I'm afraid.

[jwealleans]

Report here.

[gresley]

We shall now prove that an A3 looks good from any angle.

105 3.jpg

105 4.jpg

At the moment, I have lovely soft indirect light up to about 1100am, so I'm off to take some more.

Hi Gilbert,

 

Thanks for those views of Victor Wild.   A3s as they should look - single chimney, no smoke deflectors, and a lovely GN tender.   Beautiful !!!!!!

Reminds me of my youth.   There were even some blue ones then as well !!!!!!!

Keep up the good work !!!

 

Stuart

[great northern]

Every angle??http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--UFXYVptp--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/gwadodatxh43yymw11yt.jpg

, OK, nearly every angle. Still a thoroughbred though, even when sabotaged.

[Mallard60022]

Report here.

Blimey. That possibly explains why my late dad, ever the pessimist, always wanted to travel in the middle portion of trains back then. What a mess.

The loco was obviously repaired but the recovery must have been interesting.

Phil

[rockershovel]

A propos Spital Bridge, there was some discussion a little while ago about the space between the running track and the abutment; has this now been resolved, because the gap doesn't appear in the A3 photo?

[rockershovel]

I sometimes travelled on the 05:36 or 06:00 to be at work in Central London by 07:30 latest. 09:00 starts were NEVER a construction industry practice. Hence the three years of night shifts, working around LUL possessions meant that my working day was only 9 or 10 hours.

 

That didn't allow for falling asleep on the train after a couple of pints in the Market Porter, and ending up in Doncaster, though...

[great northern]

A propos Spital Bridge, there was some discussion a little while ago about the space between the running track and the abutment; has this now been resolved, because the gap doesn't appear in the A3 photo?

This has to wait till Peter Leyland's next visit. A bit of surgery will be necessary to the left side of the bridge before it can be moved over, and I'm not sure whether he can do that here, or whether it will have to go back to his workbench. When the repositioning takes place, that is when the gap will appear.

[great northern]

There is one more picture of Victor Wild.

and then we are back to WDs, this one on coal empties.

Very strong winds at PN last night, it seems.

A long walk this morning, two hours golf practice this afternoon, and another walk this evening = bedtime.

[St Enodoc]

That possibly explains why my late dad, ever the pessimist, always wanted to travel in the middle portion of trains back then.

Most railwaymen still do.

[Richard E]

Most railwaymen still do.

Well, most of those I see on my train who I know work for NR travelling from York to Donny travel at the back although one I used to travel with to Peterborough always chose the middle.

[great northern]

Still on WDs this morning, but make the most of these, as the supply will soon dry up for several hours while the posh stuff takes over.

That bridge looks quite impressive, doesn't it?

Down the other end now. The starter is on, as the train is signalled into New England coal road, but that signal is out of shot.

[The Stationmaster]

Coincidentally, I was just looking this up as well. The 7.25 to KX I featured recently didn't get there till 1034, and was purely a local train. The 7.30 ex Grantham which is in the station now got to London at 9.55. no good at all for anyone expected to start work at 0900, as almost everyone did back then. Before that, leave at 0546 on the Aberdeen sleeper, and get to KX at 7.15. I think not.

 

Targetted commuter services this far out just didn't exist. I don't have the timetables, but I wonder if they did start once Peterborough was within reach of London in an hour on regular services? My recollection is that commuting from Grantham, and the property market explosion there, really started when that magic figure of an hour, or just over, became achievable.

 

There was at one time - thinking back it was probably the early '70s although it applied to some people in the '60s - where an 'acceptable' commuting rail journey was regarded as being around one hour and many people regarded 90 minutes as excessive.  The big exception - even back then - was the south coast where commuting from seaside places such as Brighton and places to the east was seemingly acceptable even if journey time were that bit longer because many found the coast 'a nice place to live'

 

Longer distance commuting - with first 90 minutes, then 2 hours, then even longer, mainline train journeys becoming acceptable really started to take off in the '70s as train speeds rose and the lure of cheaper house prices took effect.  But initially a lot of long distance commuting seemed to be railway staff, or others, moved out of London by office relocation or redundancy and thus not having to worry about the cost of travel although also the distance onward from mainline rail terminus, especially in London also seems to have played apart in deciding whether overall journey length was acceptable.  And of course as demand rose so train services were developed to meet it although sometimes the opposite applied with good, fast, train services encouraging demand; on non-electrified routes the arrival of HSTs was really the thing that got long distance commuting going I think.

 

the effect of what happens beyond the mainline terminus can be a big determinant - in my final 'big railway' job my best route to work involved a c.30 minute ride in an HST followed by a trip on the Bakerloo Line although my office was only a few minutes walk from the UndergrounD when I arrived at Waterloo.  But i also had the advantage of various 'diversionary' routes which although they all involved longer journeys at least conferred some reliability in times of perturbation.

 

BTW  I always travelled in the leading, or rear, coach on HSTs - fortunately I was held up in traffic one particular morning and missed my regular train, which happened to meet a dmu coming the other way at Ladbroke Grove.

Edited June 7, 2016 by The Stationmaster

[St Enodoc]

BTW  I always travelled in the leading, or rear, coach on HSTs - fortunately I was held up in traffic one particular morning and missed my regular train, which happened to meet a dmu coming the other way at Ladbroke Grove.

Mike, my experience was shaped by that of colleagues who had had to deal with the Sweet Hill collision on the Brighton line at Christmas 1978 (and to a certain extent by Moorgate as well). HSTs/loco-hauled/push-pull trains are slightly different as the end car(s) don't carry passengers. Ladbroke Grove was, sadly, an exception to the general rule.

 

Anyway, that's enough of that. Let's get back to brighter matters.

[MarshLane]

The 7.25 to KX I featured recently didn't get there till 1034, and was purely a local train. 

 

 

Hi,

I've been following this thread in the background for ages, and I have to say, the quality of your modelling and the layout, not to mention the realism in the photographs is totally superb!   As somebody born in the late 1970s, I started travelling extensively once I got to college, around 1996, so have always been use to 1 hour Peterborough- London journey's on the Intercity service. But can anyone enlighten me as to how this 07.25 local took over three hours!  I can imagine WDs on long coal trains passing it!  I'm assuming it must have run via March and Cambridge to take that length of time?  Even every stop 'up' the ECML from Peterborough to London surely couldn't have added more than an hour to the journey at most?

 

Love the layout tho - superb.

 

Rich

[The Stationmaster]

Looking a bit further at the commuting situation even the 1969-70 service wasn't particularly attractive  with the following trains available -

(N.B. the lists include all trains irrespective of stopping patterns)

 

Up Trains

 

05.10 Peterboro'  arrive KX 06.32 (01.10 ex Newcastle)

07.15 Peterboro'  arrive KX 08.47

07.48 Peterboro'  arrive KX 09.32

08.35 Peterboro'  arrive KX 09.52  (07.25 ex Lincoln)

 

Down trains

 

16.20 KX arrive Peterboro' 17.33 (to York)

16.30 KX arrive Peterboro' 17.43  (to Cleethorpes)

16.41 KX arrive Peterboro' 18.54

17.05 KX arrive Peterboro' 18.15 (to Bradford)

17.39 KX arrive Peterboro' 19.15

18.25 KX arrive Peterboro' 19.41 (to Hull)

18.53 KX arrive Peterboro' 20.04 (to Bradford)

 

After that there was only the 19.10 and  22.42 from KX to Peterborough

 

Thus the service was still relatively unattractive to commuters involving a very early start for anybody starting work before 09.00, unless they happened to work at or near Kings Cross and equally offering a similarly poor service during the most likely homeward commuter peak departure period from 17.00 to 18.30.  And with all journey times still exceeding the 'magic' 1 hour it meant that at best the average commuter was probably looking at over 12 hours away from home each working day - probably still only accepted by a few at that time.  Incidentally judging by a quick scan of the timetable the situation wasn't much better by 1976.