Caledonian Railway Dia.67 Van from Rapido

[Miss Prism]

I sort of remembered there had been a drawing of this van diagram way back in the model press, and a quick google reveals a good RMweb thread.

 

At 18'6" long, I'm surprised they were rated only 10T.

 

 

 

[Garethp8873]

2 hours ago, rapidoTom said:

 

No plans to at the moment - we were concerned that making it robust enough to withstand general handling would have meant overscale details and losing some of the fidelity, but we have managed to incorporate separately fitted elements such as the lower door rail.

 

 

10ft 6in - enough for some to get BR XP markings!

 

 

You could spend a fair while spotting the differences, I certainly spent a while CAD modelling them all!

Van No. 266 left Cadbury's in 1967 but we think it was still in this livery in 1977 if the photo is dated correctly. Van 278 was preserved at the same time, I don't know when they were originally sold to Cadbury though. Traffic is not entirely clear, some vans on site were used to store ingredients, others were used as permanent way tool storage. Cadbury had at least 4 of these ex-CR vans and as they were ventilated, my guess would be ingredient storage - there are hints to that in various places online but I can't say for certain!

 

Of the four examples that joined the Severn Valley Railway (infact they were the first wagons to join if I'm correct) in 1967, I would say 266/304543 was the longest one to bear the Cadbury livery. For how long, I am not certain. Eventually it was repainted into LMS Bauxite and that is the livery it beared until leaving the SVR along with 302080 for Ferryhill where they still are today. Remarkably for timber framed wagons they are still hanging on somehow.

 

Looking at the old stock books, 2080/302080 was the first to be repainted into CR livery and subsequently into the post-1936 livery. 302080 is seen in Bauxite livery during the shunting scene at Arley in the God's Wonderful Railway drama. At somepoint after that it must have been repainted into LMS grey but I wouldn't know when. The other two, (268/300682 and 269/307455) from what I have seen as per photos on Flickr and during my research of Caledonian Vans were never repainted. Eventually the two were cut down to be used as flatbed wagons and once they served their use they were broken up.

[Chuffed 1]

6 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

The photos of M300421 and M300938 in 'The Acquired Wagons of British Railways' volume 4 are dated 'early 1950s'. Both have clasp vacuum brakes.

There's a photo of M309426 on the linked Rapido page.

Unfitted M309426 was photographed at Harrow in 1952 in ‘Wagons of the early BR era’ Larkin.

In standard BR unfitted grey.

[hmrspaul]

OMB907 at Scunthorpe in 1978 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/scunthorpebsccorus/e13b2f4be 

and conserved at Cottismore in 1988 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/scunthorpebsccorus/e6054eeea

 

A nice wagon, not least because it is not to the RCH standard sizes which became so familiar. 

 

Paul

Edited February 16 by hmrspaul

[Jammy2305]

For those who are not knowledgeable on CR rolling stock; of the four CR liveried vans, are there any differences that denote a different placing within the era? I.e are all four suitable for an as built/1903 scene, or are some from later batches etc? (Or, perhaps worded better, which ones are the earliest examples?) 

 

- James

[Garethp8873]

15 minutes ago, Jammy2305 said:

For those who are not knowledgeable on CR rolling stock; of the four CR liveried vans, are there any differences that denote a different placing within the era? I.e are all four suitable for an as built/1903 scene, or are some from later batches etc? (Or, perhaps worded better, which ones are the earliest examples?) 

 

- James

 

Yes I can answer that. 

 

73007 - Date of build is unknown.

2080 - Approx build date is around 1910.

73804 - Van is identical to the example in Caledonian Wagons. Example in the book is 73814 but still the same van. 73814 was built in 1917 so I'd expect 73804 is around the same period too.

4543 - Approx build date is around 1910.

Edited February 16 by Garethp8873

[Jammy2305]

7 minutes ago, Garethp8873 said:

 

Yes I can answer that. 

 

73007 - Date of build is unknown.

2080 - Approx build date is around 1910.

73804 - Van is identical to the example in Caledonian Wagons. Example in the book is 73814 but still the same van. 73814 was built in 1917 so I'd expect 73804 is around the same period too.

4543 - Approx build date is around 1910.

 

Righteo, thank you kindly!

 

- James

[Jammy2305]

25 minutes ago, Garethp8873 said:

 

Yes I can answer that. 

 

73007 - Date of build is unknown.

2080 - Approx build date is around 1910.

73804 - Van is identical to the example in Caledonian Wagons. Example in the book is 73814 but still the same van. 73814 was built in 1917 so I'd expect 73804 is around the same period too.

4543 - Approx build date is around 1910.

 

SRPS has 73007 as built circa 1920

 

http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/10048.htm

 

I guess logically the best/earliest representative will be 4543 as it has an earlier build date but is also modelled as having split spoke wheels and single sided brakes.

 

- James

[Caledonian]

Anybody know what happened to the Backworth platelayer's van ? I've seen a photie dated 1972 which takes it into the preservation era.

[Garethp8873]

1 hour ago, Caledonian said:

Anybody know what happened to the Backworth platelayer's van ? I've seen a photie dated 1972 which takes it into the preservation era.

 

I suspect it was cut up.

 

Four of the five preserved examples are now based in Scotland. Former SVR vans 302080 & 304543 are now at Ferryhill in Aberdeen and 73004 & 73007 are at Bo'ness. The only example still in England is the OMB907 example at Rutland.

 

There was a fifth example at the Caledonian Railway but last photo I saw, it was now missing the body.

 

Edited February 17 by Garethp8873

[Legend]

Cadbury had a depot at Potterhill in Paisley . It was rail connected although the branch was G&SWR . I think it lasted until late 60s /early 70s , so could that be a source of the Cadburys vans?   Normally I don’t even look at Rapido wagons , viewing them as way too expensive . I still think wagons should be £10 but I might have to have a dabble with this one . 

[Wickham Green too]

I think this is the one that went to Brechin : 

 

Huntly : 26/3/84

 

... though the body of this one was a wee bit better : 

 

Forres ; 16/4/80

 

[MartinRS]

Well it's certainly a nice looking model, though not in my scale! Just out of curiosity; what is the purpose of the vertical gap (covered by blanking plates) in the end of the wagon? It can be seen here, with one blanking plate missing.

 

https://www.svrwiki.com/Caledonian_Railway_Covered_Goods_Van_302080

[Mol_PMB]

11 minutes ago, MartinRS said:

Well it's certainly a nice looking model, though not in my scale! Just out of curiosity; what is the purpose of the vertical gap (covered by blanking plates) in the end of the wagon? It can be seen here, with one blanking plate missing.

 

https://www.svrwiki.com/Caledonian_Railway_Covered_Goods_Van_302080

I suspect it isn't a vent because there's another conventional vent. Perhaps a way of loading very long thin things into the van?

 

 

 

[cessna152towser]

4 hours ago, Legend said:

Cadbury had a depot at Potterhill in Paisley . It was rail connected although the branch was G&SWR . I think it lasted until late 60s /early 70s , so could that be a source of the Cadburys vans?  

The Cadbury depot at Potterhill was on the site of an old coal yard.   In my early childhood I lived on Lothian Crescent Paisley and a steam engine hauling a few coal wagons would trundle along behind the houses most weekday mornings.   Occasionally it went beyond Potterhill, possibly to serve coal supply for Glenfield Works.   At some time after 1957 the coal yard closed and the line was later re-opened to serve Cadburys.    The Cadbury trains typically comprised around eight to ten twelve ton vans.   These wagons carried BR numbers.  They were tripped from some goods yard in the Glasgow area by a Class 08 and I often saw this train on the Paisley Canal line once I started commuting to Glasgow University.    The line closed in February 1970 when Cadburys traffic to Potterhill ceased.   BR sold most of the trackbed to Paisley Corporation for a footpath and cycleway, but following local government changes and neighbouring property owners objections to the footpath, the land was fenced off and sold by Strathclyde Regional Council in the 1980s.   Some of the trackbed became incorporated into private gardens while other parts were eventually swallowed up by housing development.  I don't think there would have been any Cadburys owned internal user vans at Potterhill.  Certainly I never saw any, and I would have thought the layout was too small, just a run round loop and a siding running from one end of the loop into the warehouse.

Edited February 17 by cessna152towser

[Garethp8873]

47 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I suspect it isn't a vent because there's another conventional vent. Perhaps a way of loading very long thin things into the van?

 

 

 

 

I suspect they were used to inspect the contents inside the van without opening the main door.

[Wickham Green too]

The LNER used a similar opening on its standard vans - for some reason ............ the ability to inspect contents through it would depend on what the contents were - a single large item could easily block the view of anything else which might need inspecting. A loading point for long thin items might be more plausible - sometimes, nowadays, you see openings on road vehicles which I presume are for that purpose.

[rapidoTom]

The drawings refer to the sliding panel on the left hand side of the ends, as simply "door" - the reference book calls it a "sliding flap". So it seems to be a door rather than a vent, but what for is not explicitly mentioned. I shall leave that up for debate!

[NZRedBaron]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would be appropriate to run the pre-1936 and post-1936 LMS vans together in the same train, right? At least if your layout is set between 1936 and 1940-ish?

Edited February 18 by NZRedBaron

[Fair Oak Junction]

49 minutes ago, NZRedBaron said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would be appropriate to run the pre-1936 and post-1936 LMS vans together in the same train, right? At least if your layout is set between 1936 and 1940-ish?

 

The LMS was notoriously slow at repainting stock, so yes you'd be absolutely fine 😉

Edited February 18 by Fair Oak Junction

[Wickham Green too]

Don't forget there was a minor hiccup in normal life between 1939 ( well within normal repainting period after 1936 ) and 1945 so earlier liveries survived into the BR period ...... often severely degraded or with later insignia superimposed ........................ wagon livery variety is the spice of life !

[JohnR]

1 hour ago, NZRedBaron said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would be appropriate to run the pre-1936 and post-1936 LMS vans together in the same train, right? At least if your layout is set between 1936 and 1940-ish?

Wouldnt surprise me if there was still some stock running about at nationalisation that was still in pre-36 livery, albeit fairly shabby by then

[Fair Oak Junction]

1 minute ago, JohnR said:

Wouldnt surprise me if there was still some stock running about at nationalisation that was still in pre-36 livery, albeit fairly shabby by then

 

There definitely was, just like there were pre-grouping liveries still running around in the late 30s.

[NZRedBaron]

I kind of took it as read that wagon repainting would have been suspended during WWII, but yeah, that's all fair enough.

[franciswilliamwebb]

Excellent, I've just pre-ordered some.  Great to see the influx of quality earlier wagons after decades of the infamous Hornby Hull & Barnsley fish van😎