Buhar Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 I can't see the brake pipes on those models noted as dual braked. Is that just the nature of these early images? Alan 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium RapidoCorbs Posted February 19 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19 9 hours ago, Buhar said: I can't see the brake pipes on those models noted as dual braked. Is that just the nature of these early images? Alan Vac and air hoses are planned to be included in the accessory bag. :) 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
64F Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 17/02/2024 at 16:04, MartinRS said: Well it's certainly a nice looking model, though not in my scale! Just out of curiosity; what is the purpose of the vertical gap (covered by blanking plates) in the end of the wagon? It can be seen here, with one blanking plate missing. https://www.svrwiki.com/Caledonian_Railway_Covered_Goods_Van_302080 On 17/02/2024 at 21:16, rapidoTom said: The drawings refer to the sliding panel on the left hand side of the ends, as simply "door" - the reference book calls it a "sliding flap". So it seems to be a door rather than a vent, but what for is not explicitly mentioned. I shall leave that up for debate! I believe these were for loading long thin items which couldn't fit through the centre door. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Would be interesting to know HOW they were loaded .... from an end dock, one wagon at a time presumably - doesn't seem the most convenient way of doing things when there were always plenty of open wagons and sheets about ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium RapidoCorbs Posted February 19 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19 2 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: Would be interesting to know HOW they were loaded .... You've heard of the caber toss, yes? 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Then it would be interesting to know how they were UNloaded !! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 3 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: Then it would be interesting to know how they were UNloaded !! Generally the reverse of loading 👿😀 (just a thought). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 But what little I know of caber tossing would suggest that a rather longer vehicle with a 'giraffe wagon' roof might be required ! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Poor Old Bruce said: Generally the reverse of loading 👿😀 (just a thought). Yes, by another lot of tossers! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinRS Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 17/02/2024 at 19:27, Wickham Green too said: The LNER used a similar opening on its standard vans - for some reason ............ the ability to inspect contents through it would depend on what the contents were - a single large item could easily block the view of anything else which might need inspecting. A loading point for long thin items might be more plausible - sometimes, nowadays, you see openings on road vehicles which I presume are for that purpose. Pondering the purpose of the blanked opening set me off looking for similar openings on other vans. The LNER version is square and small compared to the CR version and would only be suitable for loading rods or lengths of timber whereas the CR opening looks like it might have been used for loading rigid sheets. I also found images of NER vans with small square openings, just like the LNER vans. (The LNER vans could have been built to a NER diagram). Did the CR move lots of timber? I suppose the ability of the CR to shift lengthy rigid rods and sheets along with more conventional types of produce shipped in vans could potentially reduce the number of wagons in a train in cases where the 'lengthy load' was was quite small. Whatever the reason for the small end doors, it must have made the construction of the vans more complex than a conventionally built van. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
64F Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 My assumption is that the goods were still loaded and unloaded through the main doors, but having a small hatch in opposite corners allowed long items to poke out the other side during that process, before being drawn back in. Thus the van could carry items the full length of its load space that otherwise could not fit through the side door. It seems like a good idea and obviously the LNER persisted with it, but the fact that it was not adopted as standard suggests that the hatches may not have been used much in practice. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 They're shuttered louvres. Some GWR vans had them as well. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 43 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: They're shuttered louvres. Some GWR vans had them as well. Jason But these aren't shuttered. As we have been told, they are a door. Paul 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 11 hours ago, hmrspaul said: But these aren't shuttered. As we have been told, they are a door. Paul I doubt that. Why would you load anything from there? Hardly a suitable angle to work from. You certainly wouldn't be putting wood in a van like has been suggested as vans were for perishable and valuable goods. They would use a bolster wagon for wood. And if there was a need for loading items into a van length ways why didn't they build longer vans with end doors. We aren't talking about pre history these were built from 1910 and the CR certainly had bogie vehicles by that time. It's a vent. To suggest it's anything else just doesn't make sense. The CR certainly had a lot of fruit traffic (despite the jokes about Scots not eating fruit and veg). I would assume that a busy times they needed other vans to supplement the actual fruit vans. Look at a Y4 for evidence of a van with two main ventilators and a shuttered louvre. I wonder who makes a Y4.... https://rapidotrains.co.uk/gwr-banana-van-y4/ Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
64F Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 There has been discussion of the end hatches before, though it didn't lead to a definite conclusion: Sliding windows in the end of vans - UK Prototype Questions - RMweb I have read in a book that they were for loading, because prior to that I'd always assumed they were vents. Perhaps the book was wrong, and the square hatches on LNER vans were particularly small. However on the CR van there are both bonnet vents and these hatches, which seems odd if the hatches are just vents. The CR did have a lot of seasonal fruit & veg traffic so maybe merchandise vans got additional vents for that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 17/02/2024 at 15:20, Wickham Green too said: I think this is the one that went to Brechin : Huntly : 26/3/84 ... though the body of this one was a wee bit better : Forres ; 16/4/80 If the top one did go to Brechin, there is only a chassis left now sadly... Photo belonging to Allan Jenkins. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: I doubt that. Why would you load anything from there? Hardly a suitable angle to work from. You certainly wouldn't be putting wood in a van like has been suggested as vans were for perishable and valuable goods. They would use a bolster wagon for wood. And if there was a need for loading items into a van length ways why didn't they build longer vans with end doors. We aren't talking about pre history these were built from 1910 and the CR certainly had bogie vehicles by that time. It's a vent. To suggest it's anything else just doesn't make sense. The CR certainly had a lot of fruit traffic (despite the jokes about Scots not eating fruit and veg). I would assume that a busy times they needed other vans to supplement the actual fruit vans. Look at a Y4 for evidence of a van with two main ventilators and a shuttered louvre. I wonder who makes a Y4.... https://rapidotrains.co.uk/gwr-banana-van-y4/ Jason We have been told that the a drawing calls them doors. There is no louvre. I've always thought they were for observing a load - the more recent (!) GRAINS have a small windows in the ends https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgrainrivetcgorivet/e1915caf6 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgo/ee7e0ed8 I don't deny they may have been for ventilation, but they were open spaces and not louvred. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercoveredmerchandise/e2b04183a https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercoveredmerchandise/e30ea5ba4 Paul 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 6 minutes ago, hmrspaul said: We have been told that the a drawing calls them doors. There is no louvre. I've always thought they were for observing a load - the more recent (!) GRAINS have a small windows in the ends https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgrainrivetcgorivet/e1915caf6 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgo/ee7e0ed8 I don't deny they may have been for ventilation, but they were open spaces and not louvred. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercoveredmerchandise/e2b04183a https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercoveredmerchandise/e30ea5ba4 Paul The second grain wagon does not have an end window - it is a OHLW plaque. The fourth photo clearly shows a vertically sliding hatch cover - the top half of the slide was originally fully boarded over. As there is no apparent way of securing the hatch cover in the up position, I would suggest that it is intended for inspection purposes and not for ventilation. I suppose that it could have been used for loading long, thin items - but that seems to be a bit far-fetched to me. CJI. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, hmrspaul said: ...I've always thought they were for observing a load - the more recent (!) GRAINS have a small windows in the ends https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgrainrivetcgorivet/e1915caf6 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgo/ee7e0ed8 ... At least the grain wagons have ladders for access ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamingWales Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Not sure this has been asked yet here. Would these wagons have easily made it onto other railway networks? Thinking through workings onto the Highland Railway (for the Jones Goods to haul) as an example? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, SteamingWales said: Would these wagons have easily made it onto other railway networks? Thinking through workings onto the Highland Railway (for the Jones Goods to haul) as an example? I don't see why not, although I suppose it depends on what part of the Highland Railway you're modelling and also what time period. As distance from the Caledonian Railway network increases, the likelihood of one of these appearing would presumably have declined. I'd imagine that the majority of traffic from the Scottish Central Belt (ie Caledonian territory) to north of Inverness would have been transhipped in Inverness. I'd therefore expect to see these CR wagons on the Highland Mainline (ie between Stanley Junction and Inverness), but perhaps they were rather rare visitors to more far flung destinations like Kyle of Lochalsh or Thurso. Of course after 1919, when the Railway Clearing House extended the common user scheme that had been introduced in 1917 for open wagons, to include unfitted covered goods wagons, they would have started to wander further from Caledonian territory, giving an increased likelihood of one being seen north of Inverness. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) I know of this photo of one Dia.67 in a goods in LBSCR territory. Edited February 24 by Garethp8873 Updated post with link 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Fair Oak Junction Posted February 24 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24 In the pre-grouping days wagons got everywhere, it's not hard to find ones well out of region in photographs. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Hi, I am intending to purchase the Cadburys van, did they last in the late 60’s, and does anyone know when Cadburys bought them? Thanks Fred Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Apologies for not reading back through the whole of this - but were the Cadbury vans to be seen out an' about or were they internal users ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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