Fake Dapol Products

[meatloaf]

Dapol have posted on there website and on Facebook about fake Dapol products being sold on chinese websites.

 

However they dont say what the products are i assume we have to guess for ourselves. Im assuming its decoders trho

 

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/fake-Dapol-products?fbclid=IwAR2UKHpiwzB4P99TFBxY3fcUu-jLuBx-V-eLVtCf6SXia4fOtvBGsKZaL10_aem_AWk0h-06rj3sPGYPlHLMK0P9zvONWVLSdmQpV1uJt-j4gMjtqZXSC1ejkGmEjUV2LqdTZabgpzKh4fr2EPtEzhd3

[Tim Dubya]

2 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

However they dont say what the products are i assume we have to guess for ourselves

 

 

I have posed the question to Dapol.

 

[meatloaf]

Just now, Tim Dubya said:

 

 

I have posed the question to Dapol.

 

Me too, this is there reply in full :

 

"We would recommend against any direct purchase of Dapol products from China"

[John M Upton]

4 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

Me too, this is there reply in full :

 

"We would recommend against any direct purchase of Dapol products from China"

 

Oh yes, very informative!!! 🙄

[Darius43]

4 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

 

Oh yes, very informative!!! 🙄

Actually it is - the eBay sellers are based in China as stated on their eBay pages.  
 

There is a similar issue about Murphy Models Irish locos being sold on eBay directly from China.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[RichardT]

Tried to reply to the other topic but it’s been deleted.

 

On the thin evidence available this sounds like a revival of the old “third-shift counterfeiting” trick: the contract manufacturer runs the two main shifts for the benefit of their Western client, and then runs a shadow third shift producing the same items for “local” benefit.  To what degree these third-shift items are “counterfeit” is a nice semantic question, depending on whether the third shift uses the same quality of materials and assembly techniques as the two other legit shifts, but they won’t be covered by any manufacturer’s (or should I say commissioner’s) warranty.

 

It’s the risk you run contracting out your manufacturing to plants where you can’t supervise them on the ground. But hey, we wanted cheap stuff.

 

RichardT

Edited April 5 by RichardT

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, RichardT said:

Tried to reply to the other topic but it’s been deleted.

 

On the thin evidence available this sounds like a revival of the old “third-shift counterfeiting” truck: the contract manufacturer runs the two main shifts for the benefit of their Western client, and then runs a shadow third shift producing the same items for their own benefit.  To what degree these third-shift items are “counterfeit” is a nice semantic question, depending on whether the third shift uses the same quality of materials and assembly techniques as the two other legit shifts, but they won’t be covered by any manufacturer’s (or should I say commissioner’s) warranty.

 

It’s the risk you run contracting out your manufacturing to plants where you can’t supervise them on the ground. But hey, we wanted cheap stuff.

 

RichardT

 

I suppose the 'legality' comes down, in part, to who owns the moulds and the rights to the models which come from them. In this case (if it's the stuff on e-bay) then perhaps it's more clear cut as the packaging purports to be Dapol and Murphy Models. However further complications arise as the stuff is supplied from (and presumably made in) China so who knows what redress there will be.

[Phil Parker]

Please do not paste links to eBay sales in this topic. Dapol has enough on their plate trying to stem the flow of these products, without people here making it easier.

[Darius43]

Probably little chance of redress in China.  It comes down to the morality of the purchaser.  Buy cheap from the eBay seller, telling yourself that is ok to do so because it’s Dapol’s fault for manufacturing in China, or buy from legitimate traders.

 

The analogy is buying knock off goods from a bloke in a pub car park.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[meatloaf]

1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

Please do not paste links to eBay sales in this topic. Dapol has enough on their plate trying to stem the flow of these products, without people here making it easier.

Apologies 

[Steven B]

For those wanting to avoid these "fake" models - I've only ever seen wagons being advertised as shipping direct from China - no coaches or locos. The N Gauge ones have tended to be covered coil and flat wagons - made by Dapol for Modell Bahn Union - not Dapol's British range. That may have changed of course...

 

Steven B

[meatloaf]

9 minutes ago, Steven B said:

For those wanting to avoid these "fake" models - I've only ever seen wagons being advertised as shipping direct from China - no coaches or locos. The N Gauge ones have tended to be covered coil and flat wagons - made by Dapol for Modell Bahn Union - not Dapol's British range. That may have changed of course...

 

Steven B

Theres deffo o scale 14xx and 57xx locos listed as being from china

[Roy L S]

So basically they are saying any new Dapol product regardless of scale that is on sale direct from China should be looked upon with suspicion. Well people have been warned, but I guess to some it will still depend on just how much of a "bargain" something appears to be. Caveat emptor for sure, I would have very little sympathy with anyone if a duff item arrives ...🤔

[JSpencer]

It is not just Dapol. There are lots of things being sold by the bay + amazon + just about any platform that allows people to sell things on it all coming from China.

 

Before buying anything now, I always check the seller's credentials. IF it is China, I don't buy it ! 

 

Right now you can buy 100s of cr***py figures, trees, lights, etc whose quality is - at best - dubious.

[RichardT]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

I suppose the 'legality' comes down, in part, to who owns the moulds and the rights to the models which come from them.

Oh yes, and there’s absolutely no doubt that these are illegal  products (or in breach of contract.).

My point about the use of “counterfeit”, as meaning “a physical fake” was a more philosophical one.

 

RichardT

 

Edited April 5 by RichardT
Deleted remainder of post as, on reflection, it was a discussion better carried out in real life, with nuance.

[JSpencer]

9 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

So basically they are saying any new Dapol product regardless of scale that is on sale direct from China should be looked upon with suspicion. Well people have been warned, but I guess to some it will still depend on just how much of a "bargain" something appears to be. Caveat emptor for sure, I would have very little sympathy with anyone if a duff item arrives ...🤔

 

In this case, they are not much cheaper than buying the UK. Nah! not worth the risk even if they claim free returns!

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, JSpencer said:

 

In this case, they are not much cheaper than buying the UK. Nah! not worth the risk even if they claim free returns!

 

Indeed so and that's before any duty and handling charges that may come as a surprise bonus. 

[JSpencer]

Not only may it be a bad bargain but....

 

...The sale will NOT support Dapol (who paid to develop the model in the first place) nor your UK based Model shop - many of whom would welcome the sale AND provide you with support with your hobby.

[The Johnster]

Models made on ghost shifts are presumably made on the same toolings and to the same CAD information as the legit ones, but I would imagine without any QC.  Chinese assembly plants source components from multiple subcontractors on a ‘just in time’ production model, so ghost shift production either uses legit items from the subcontractors and orders more to replace them, or there is an entire ghost subcontracting operation, which I doubt.  If there is, it is only QC that prevents ghost components being incorporated into the assembly of legit models.  
 

Now, that’s worrying, as it makes it difficult to be certain of the provenance of all components of legit models, meaning that there is less difference  in quality between legit and ghost models, and if the packaging is counterfeited effectively, the water becomes muddier.  So Dapol’s advice is sensible; not buying models direct online from China is the consumers’ only guaranteed protection against the practice.   
 

 

A ghost Chinese-direct item would have to be very cheap to tempt me to take the risk, but if the ghost operators can effectively disguise the provenance of models, using British host websites for example, it might be fairly easy to fall into the trap.  Caveat Emptor, beware of mendacious chisellers…

Edited April 5 by The Johnster

[AY Mod]

49 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

The sale will NOT support Dapol (who paid to develop the model in the first place) nor your UK based Model shop - many of whom would welcome the sale AND provide you with support with your hobby.

 

Facebook Marketplace shows there are sufficient number of mugs who don't care about any of that stuff for it to be worthwhile for scammers (and there's plenty of them). The mugs then go onto other Facebook groups to grumble that they've been done. 😁

[Coldgunner]

6 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Models made on ghost shifts are presumably made on the same toolings and to the same CAD information as the legit ones, but I would imagine without any QC.  Chinese assembly plants source components from multiple subcontractors on a ‘just in time’ production model, so ghost shift production either uses legit items from the subcontractors and orders more to replace them, or there is an entire ghost subcontracting operation, which I doubt.  If there is, it is only QC that prevents ghost components being incorporated into the assembly of legit models.  

 

I was told a tale about football shirts years ago. The factory would run extra shifts using the same materials and tooling, effectively knocking out an identical product.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

It is not just Dapol. There are lots of things being sold by the bay + amazon + just about any platform that allows people to sell things on it all coming from China.

 

Before buying anything now, I always check the seller's credentials. IF it is China, I don't buy it ! 

 

Right now you can buy 100s of cr***py figures, trees, lights, etc whose quality is - at best - dubious.

 

I have in the past bought stuff from China, Atlas Editions European trams (that I cut and shut into narrow gauge vehicles) which I took to be unsold items from the magazine partwork, however this thread has made me wonder if they were extras knocked out at the same factory without the publishers knowledge. I guess I'll never know.

[Colin_McLeod]

3 hours ago, Darius43 said:

There is a similar issue about Murphy Models Irish locos being sold on eBay directly from China

 

There are currently 32 Murphy Models class 121 locos on e bay, all brand new and all from China.

 

However these were all sold out ages ago and command high prices on e bay, but the Chineese ones are all around €184. 

 

 

 

[H2O]

3 hours ago, RichardT said:

"On the thin evidence available this sounds like a revival of the old “third-shift counterfeiting”

Clip of earlier helpful reply.

 

Could these models also be ones that failed QC and go out the back door to be sold rather than in the bin?  If so you are guaranteed a lemon if foolish enough to buy direct from China.

[decauville1126]

Way back in time there were "error" Models of Yesterday coming direct out of the back door of their factory such as different paint colours, canopies moulded in different colours, etc. I also saw some Triang (pre-Hornby) bodyshells shot in clear plastic but never knew if they were back-door-to-order or test shots of some sort.

 

 

Edited April 5 by decauville1126
missing word