Dapol HST

[GWR460]

Hi all,

 

I'm very happy with the Dapol Virgin HST I have.

 

For me, the real difference is the way it just "sits" on the tracks, and looks right. The contours around the headlights and the lower part of the nose especially seem to capture the shape of the prototype. The Farish model was good in its day, but I find the Dapol one has a lot more "presence" and when snaking around a layout, with lights on, it looks superb.

 

Certainly the TPM detailing set can improve the Farish model but the Dapol one also features vehicle-specific details - buffers one on of the power cars in the Virgin set for example - that make it the one to beat IMO.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Your quite right they all got it wrong. Executive and swallow are totally a different livery. Executive grey is a very dark brownish grey almost black swallow Is a very dark purple tinted grey. However this grey was also used on late exec stock. For there are both early and late executive liveries some versions in betwean especially on 86 87 47.

The early executive livery as produced by farish at first correctly and later they did various versions regarding font style and roof band style both correct and incorrect versions were most right but very rare in real life I've only found photo evidence for 4 complete sets and apparently they worked the gatwick service hence the name executive livery as the service was aimed at business men and was one of the first deveations from corporate blue livery. This early executive livery was correctly produced by lima too for a different set the yellow extends over the side grills and the locos had 253 numbers on the nose and the original hollow intercity font style from the blue era. The second set had hollow font and no numbers on the nose the third set had solid font for intercity and a hypen and I think the 4th set had intercity in solid white with no hyphen.

These 4 sets first ran in this early executive livery from 1983 on to about 85 and then the late executive style as also produced only by Lima till now.

There were other differences the shades of red executive wore rail red as on red stripe locos but the swallow livery used intercity claret a deeper red less orangey roofs were black on both liveries never grey as modeled by Dapol Hornby and Bachmann only farish lima nailed this until dapols recent stuf seems to get the livery right. The late exec locos and early swallow locos mixed these shades and you could find early swallow locos with executive shades these also tended to have yellow horn grills and light trims as on 43150 and 43151,

I hope Dapol produce the early exec livery it also differed by having all the roof grills of the hst and the roof sides of the mk3 coaches painted intercity fawn this also has caring shades betwean liveries. Then there are the two other intercity liveries intercity mainline for mixed traffic like on 90s 37s 47s and intercity unbranded as on 47s so all in all there is a lot more to it than it seems. And whoever does research for Hornby needs to do a better job as they call swallow or swift livery executive livery which it isn't, swallow livery represents to me the death nail of british rail it was sectorisation and privatisation preparation it did not carry the arrows of indecision. The last true british rail livery was executive livery and intercity blue, for me happier times indeed and in my view the best liveries ever applied to modern trains. Hope this info helps some out there

[mikeharvey22]

The Executive livery always reminded me of the SNCF Corail livery which dates from the mid 1970s and can still be seen today. Over that period SNCF has changed its logo style 4 or 5 times and applied it to two tone grey Corail coaches. Of course they have come up with truly shocking colour schemes over the past 40 years but the current livery has reverted to the original Corail style but now with a black window band and silver grey ( white on night stock) bodysides above a deep skirt in grey. The original orange of the entrance doors has been replaced by a graduated carmine red. Plus ca change....

 

http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images/humour/b11tu,258da5efc17d3d28b18fd408d6b28144.jpg.html

 

Mike

Edited June 5, 2013 by mikeharvey22

[GWR460]

The Executive livery always reminded me of the SNCF Corail livery which dates from the mid 1970s and can still be seen today. Over that period SNCF has changed its logo style 4 or 5 times and applied it to two tone grey Corail coaches. Of course they have come up with truly shocking colour schemes over the past 40 years but the current livery has reverted to the original Corail style but now with a black window band and silver grey ( white on night stock) bodysides above a deep skirt in grey. The original orange of the entrance doors has been replaced by a graduated carmine red. Plus ca change....

 

http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images/humour/b11tu,258da5efc17d3d28b18fd408d6b28144.jpg.html

 

Mike

 

I'm not familiar with that but I shall have to check it out now!

 

Cheers

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

Has anyone else noticed the height difference between the Dapol HST power cars and the MK3 coaches?

 

I have the NMT power cars and they seem to tower over the coaches and the couplings are at different heights leading to random uncoupling.

 

Has anyone tried lowering the power cars to match the coaches and if so how did you go about it?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[dmeaden]

Hi

Has anyone else noticed the height difference between the Dapol HST power cars and the MK3 coaches?

I have the NMT power cars and they seem to tower over the coaches and the couplings are at different heights leading to random uncoupling.

Has anyone tried lowering the power cars to match the coaches and if so how did you go about it?

Cheers

Paul

Paul I have noticed on my set that when I replace the rapidos with the more appropriate buckeyes the power cars disconnect from the coaches as the power car coupling rides higher than the coach.

This does not appear to be the case with the coach car roof heights on mine but the coupling angles when on curves.

Any solutions as it is getting a bit of a problem :-(

[PaulCheffus]

Paul I have noticed on my set that when I replace the rapidos with the more appropriate buckeyes the power cars disconnect from the coaches as the power car coupling rides higher than the coach.

This does not appear to be the case with the coach car roof heights on mine but the coupling angles when on curves.

Any solutions as it is getting a bit of a problem :-(

Hi

 

I have exactly the same problem and for now I have reverted to the Rapido couplings. The difference in height is quite marked between the power car and the coach rooves. I will try and upload a photo later to illustrate this.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

Edit: Picture added.

Edited November 17, 2013 by PaulCheffus

[43179]

The difference in height is due to the roof on the mk3 being too flat - the roof/cantrail is one area where the old Farish mk3 actually looks better, of and also the profile of the ends, 

 

regards

 

Jon  

[PaulCheffus]

The difference in height is due to the roof on the mk3 being too flat - the roof/cantrail is one area where the old Farish mk3 actually looks better, of and also the profile of the ends, 

 

regards

 

Jon

 

Hi

 

If that is the case why does the lower edge of the power car and coach not line up either?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[43179]

Hi

 

If that is the case why does the lower edge of the power car and coach not line up either?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 cos there's no fuel in it

 

Never looked at this closely before , but I'm not sure if they do line up on the real thing - the mk3 has deeper body sides than a power car. There's a good piccy to show this here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/7385-vice-sprinter/page-2&do=findComment&comment=316786

 

 

The other thing of course is how well the Dapol bodyshell fits - on mine (I've got three sets) , all the motorised power cars sit a bit different to the dummy ones , no matter how I try and adjust them , plus they don't sit exactly level either which is a bit of a mystery as they all seems to be correctly assembled.

 

Jon  

[Dr Al]

I think the bogies can elevate the chassis block slightly on the pickup strips depending how these are bent downwards - if they are bent downwards more on some then those are likely to sit higher.

 

Cheers,
Alan

[PaulCheffus]

I think the bogies can elevate the chassis block slightly on the pickup strips depending how these are bent downwards - if they are bent downwards more on some then those are likely to sit higher.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Hi

 

Thats exactly what I think the problem is with my power cars as I can press the body down on the bogies and it more or less lines up with the coach correctly.

 

Something for me to experiment with once my knee has recovered.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[40135]

Anybody any ideas if these will become available again?

 

I'm after the Swallow pack.

[Crepello]

Just sprayed the roofs of my ''extra'' blue/grey coaches to match those in the set; Humbrol satin black 85 gives a close enough finish. The roofs come off easily with the aid of a fingernail and are easily put back to fit perfectly. Take time to admire the interiors, especially the buffet car.

[oreamnos]

[edit]

 

The other thing of course is how well the Dapol bodyshell fits - on mine (I've got three sets) , all the motorised power cars sit a bit different to the dummy ones , no matter how I try and adjust them , plus they don't sit exactly level either which is a bit of a mystery as they all seems to be correctly assembled.

 

Jon  

 

So glad to read this as on my blue/grey eastern set (the only one I own), I noticed the same thing.  I did a bit of fiddling but there wasn't anything really to fiddle with because as you say, everything appeare to be correctly assembled!  On mine, the motorized car sits level but the dummy one sits slightly lower at the rear than at the front.  After careful examination (doesn't mean I'm correct!), I've decided the cause must have something to do with the dummy's plastic frame being warped slightly.  That's beyond my skill to rectify and even if I made the attempt I doubt the payoff would be big enough to make the effort worth it.

 

Matt

[John M Upton]

I have just acquired a blue/grey set secondhand but advertised as little if at all used.  The powered power car is a very nice little runner, the unpowered driving car however shorts out the rails when placed on the track.

 

It's back on my workbench with the body off but I cannot see anything obvious causing the short.

 

Any ideas would be appreciated!!

Edited September 29, 2015 by John M Upton

[Steven B]

Try disconnecting the lights. I had to send 3 models back because of faults with the circuitry inside the Dappled ST.

 

Happy modeling.

 

Steven B

[John M Upton]

Is there any sign of the TGS cars turning up anytime soon?

[bigP]

--

Edited January 31, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[tiger]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread.

 

As is well known, there have been discrepancies in the livery application between the Dapol HST booksets, and the Mk 3 coaches sold separately.

 

I am considering making up a 7-car Virgin HST, if I can obtain either of the Virgin book sets (ND122D or ND122J). 

 

The following trailers appear to be in stock at various retailers:

 

• 2P-005-410 Virgin Mk3 Buffet Coach 40434 HST
• NC216B Virgin Mk3 Buffet Coach 40401 HST
• 2P-005-460 MK 3 Virgin TGS 44091 HST
• 2P-005-411 Virgin Mk3 Buffet Coach 10211 Loco Hauled
• 2P-005-420 Virgin Mk3 1st Class Coach 11027 Loco Hauled
• 2P-005-421 Virgin Mk3 1st Class Coach 11084 Loco Hauled
• 2P-005-431 Virgin Mk3 2nd Class Coach 12043 Loco Hauled
• 2P-005-432 Virgin Mk3 2nd Class Coach 12061 Loco Hauled
• 2P-005-433 Virgin Mk3 2nd Class Coach 12135 Loco Hauled

 

Can anybody tell me how closely the livery application of these models matches the power cars and trailers in the two booksets? I am aware that some of these are loco-hauled Mk 3 coaches and so have buffers, and incorrect running numbers for an HST. I can correct these errors, but would like to know whether the overall livery application (bodyside colour, width of stripes, size of virgin logo, roof colour) is a good match for either of the booksets.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Tom.

[Robert Shrives]

Tom,

Bodysides all match well it is the roof colour that causes angst! but a quick spray over can blend all. 

 

Re numbers Fox and Railtec can help out

 

robert 

[Robert Shrives]

Hi all,

Steve at Railtec has produced for just £5.50 a sheet today of EMT transfers - loads of dots to make extra first class trailers , numbers for three EMT sets - as running a few days ago. plus coach bodyside letters and some first class legends for the doors - you can match the Dapol position or  match to photos to suit.

 

Well worth the punt as the first class coaches only in sets and quite a few TS in the shops !

 

mine on order so thanks Steve.

Robert  

[scruff]

Hi Tom. The Dapol coaches are a pretty good match to the HST power cars.

 

The locomotive hauled coaches are a good match to the Dapol 86 too and ideal for a WCML rake.

 

As Robert said roof colours are a weak point and I sprayed all mine with Halfords satin black spray paint on a light coat of their grey plastic primer.

 

If you are renumbering coaches for an HST rake then it might be an idea to use all HST coaches which would save the job of removing the buffers. The plastic used for them is a little hard but brittle and if you are not careful it is possible to slip when they come off and damage the coach body.

 

Cheers

Mark

[Crepello]

Expert help needed please! I'm always in doubt about the correct orientation of the buffet coach in an HST rake. My era is blue/grey. Should the buffet section be next to the first or standard class? TIA.

[Padishar Creel]

Hallo.

 

Expert help needed please! I'm always in doubt about the correct orientation of the buffet coach in an HST rake. My era is blue/grey. Should the buffet section be next to the first or standard class? TIA.

 

Picture evidence in Google suggests that when the HSTs ran with two catering cars on ECML the buffet pointed towards the cab, but pointing toward the first class on WR (both cars!!), After the buffets were reduced to one per set the coaches seem all be positioned that the seating section was next to the 2nd class which would make sense as they were TRSBs or TRUBs not TRFBs - and this for WR, ECML and cross country sets

 

Hope this helps

es grüßt

pc

Edited April 22, 2016 by Padishar Creel

[Crepello]

Hallo.

 

 

Picture evidence in Google suggests that when the HSTs ran with two catering cars on ECML the buffet pointed towards the cab, but pointing toward the first class on WR (both cars!!), After the buffets were reduced to one per set the coaches seem all be positioned that the seating section was next to the 2nd class which would make sense as they were TRSBs or TRUBs not TRFBs - and this for WR, ECML and cross country sets

 

Hope this helps

es grüßt

pc

 

Hi PC

Yes that does help--thanks. Recent observations at Kings Cross have confirmed that the buffet end is next to first class on HSTs; this same arrangement also applies to the Class 91/Mark 4 sets.