Football Focus

[Joseph_Pestell]

17 minutes ago, luckymucklebackit said:

And the second most obvious decision in football is about to be made.... goodbye Mr MacLeish

 

In fairness, bad results aside, apparently the man is unwell and there was a "deeply troubling episode" ahead of the win in San Marino that left the SFA concerned that McLeish's health is being adversely affected by the role. 

 

I thought that he was looking rather unwell when doing the TV interviews.

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, south_tyne said:

Well the most obvious decision in football has now been made...... congratulations to Mr Solskjær!

 

A sensible and wise move to appoint 2OLEgend  as permanent MU manager.

Lots of examples of high profile, often international, formerly successful managers failing at new clubs.

Couldn’t do any worst than appointing someone who is already taking the club in the right direction and who has turned the whole atmosphere (throughout the club, the fans, dressing room) around. 

[Hobby]

Just hope the fans and owners give him the time to get things sorted unlike some of the earlier incumbents...

[south_tyne]

4 hours ago, Hobby said:

Just hope the fans and owners give him the time to get things sorted unlike some of the earlier incumbents...

 

Very true...... I think he undoubtedly will get time, but they did down tools for Mourinho and I always feel really sorry for Van Gaal, who I feel was very unfairly judged and treated. As with any walk of life though, sometimes your face fits and sometimes it doesn't. 

 

I also really hope that Molde are correctly compensated. They are a little club on a European scale and have had nothing but gracious throughout this whole situation. Whilst the contract realities may mean that Man Utd are not legally obliged to pay a fee, I really hope they do come to an arrangement. The club can afford it and have been shown a lot of good will by Molde. I for one hope it is more than a 'token gesture' too. 

 

It is one of the bizarre aspects of modern football that signing a really good player will cost tens of millions but managers very rarely command much of a release fee in the context of the economics of the game. Man Utd (not having a go, substitute any Premier League club as desired) were to make another top-level signing they will happily pay £50m+ but most clubs would be unwilling to spend anywhere near that to secure a manager. To counter my argument, I read a while a little while ago that Pochettino had a £34m release clause in his contract, but that is very much the exception to the rule. Then again Man Utd obviously would pay it...... 

[south_tyne]

Good day of football coming up, from the Premier League all the way down to non-league. 

 

Things are going from bad to worse at my own club! We been evicted from our ground for not paying the rent, the players haven't been paid and rumour has it they are going to have drive themselves down to Braintree today because we cannot afford to put on a coach. We are just one of a number of clubs in a mess at the moment but it is certainly worrying times......

[Joseph_Pestell]

36 minutes ago, south_tyne said:

Good day of football coming up, from the Premier League all the way down to non-league. 

 

Things are going from bad to worse at my own club! We been evicted from our ground for not paying the rent, the players haven't been paid and rumour has it they are going to have drive themselves down to Braintree today because we cannot afford to put on a coach. We are just one of a number of clubs in a mess at the moment but it is certainly worrying times......

 

I don't know how lower league clubs are supposed to survive with the cost of travelling all over the country and the time off that implies for any part-time professional players. Particularly hard for clubs such as yours at the geographical extremes.

 

Putting tiers three, four and five together and regionalising them would massively reduce the cost of running these clubs and possibly increase gates as it would be less distance to travel for away supporters.

[south_tyne]

3 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I don't know how lower league clubs are supposed to survive with the cost of travelling all over the country and the time off that implies for any part-time professional players. Particularly hard for clubs such as yours at the geographical extremes.

 

Putting tiers three, four and five together and regionalising them would massively reduce the cost of running these clubs and possibly increase gates as it would be less distance to travel for away supporters.

 

You see, we are "professional" in theory but not particularly in practice or attitude. Yes the players are full-time but they are all on 40-week, one-year contracts. No job security and not particularly well paid. You can make a much better living as a semi-pro player with another job on the side.

 

You're right, it is much more difficult for those of us at the geographical extremes. We really struggle to attract players and are really limited to those those who live in, or have connections to, the North East. There is a much greater pool of players and clubs in other parts of the country. 

 

The geographical bias of the National League has slowly been changing in recent years and there are now, and have been in recent years, an awful lot of clubs from the home counties, south coast and within an hours travelling or so from London. That's nobodies fault, and certainly not that of those clubs themselves, but shows how difficult it is for a club like ours when a large proportion of our away games involve epic trips to places like Braintree (today), Dover, Eastleigh, Bromley, Aldershot, Woking etc, the list goes on! 

 

Clearly it isn't a case of 'woe is us' and it effects lots of clibs at the geographical extremes - see Barrow, Truro City, Lowestoft to name just a few. Lowestoft spent a couple of years in the Conference North...... just getting across to A1 is a decent journey in itself, then when you have to get to places like Blyth, Workington and Darlington, is it any wonder they struggled financially and with a semi-pro squad. 

 

Having said that nothing changes. The conspiracy theory as to why Gateshead were voted out of the Football League in 1960, and not re-elected despite never being a regular finisher in the bottom four like some other clubs, was due to geography. Other clubs wanted us out due to not wanting to travel to the frozen north! Not that we are still bitter 60 years on mind...... 

 

Rant over...... 

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Putting tiers three, four and five together and regionalising them would massively reduce the cost of running these clubs and possibly increase gates as it would be less distance to travel for away supporters.

 

Didn't we used to have that, even in the main leagues?!

[jonny777]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I don't know how lower league clubs are supposed to survive with the cost of travelling all over the country and the time off that implies for any part-time professional players. Particularly hard for clubs such as yours at the geographical extremes.

 

Putting tiers three, four and five together and regionalising them would massively reduce the cost of running these clubs and possibly increase gates as it would be less distance to travel for away supporters.

 

There ought to be an increased levy on Premiership clubs to finance transport for non-league sides. There is so much cash sloshing around at the top of football (and especially in the case of percentages agents receive for silly money transfers) that someone should bang a few heads together and syphon some of the money away to the grassroots games. 

 

I'm sure this already happens to a point, but the rich clubs could certainly cope with giving more - however much they might whine. 

[south_tyne]

31 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Didn't we used to have that, even in the main leagues?!

 

Oh the Third Division North and Third Division South.... now wasn't that a clever idea.... 

[Gareth Collier]

With the Third Division South being created first from the Southern League it didn't work out well for Grimsby who were relegated from Division 2 the previous season. Until the formation of the Third Division North the following season they had a fair trek to every away game!

[rockershovel]

2 hours ago, jonny777 said:

 

There ought to be an increased levy on Premiership clubs to finance transport for non-league sides. There is so much cash sloshing around at the top of football (and especially in the case of percentages agents receive for silly money transfers) that someone should bang a few heads together and syphon some of the money away to the grassroots games. 

 

I'm sure this already happens to a point, but the rich clubs could certainly cope with giving more - however much they might whine. 

 

Wel, that doesn’t happen. The Football League and FA Cup was, still is a survivor of late-Victorian and Edwardian mutuality and communitarian attitudes. No other sport has a major tournament open to all, where a second-division club can and has won outright on occasion, and many a club has bolstered its fortunes by the windfall of a draw against a major name. But the top flight clubs clearly no longer support such foolish sentimentality with good grace, they have no role in modern money-driven attitudes. 

 

You COULD follow Rugby League, where away games are usually within walking distance and the senior, 15-man game provides the press with a distraction from the regular humiliation of the national side by pretty much anyone else passing through. 

 

 

 

 

[south_tyne]

19 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

Wel, that doesn’t happen. The Football League and FA Cup was, still is a survivor of late-Victorian and Edwardian mutuality and communitarian attitudes. No other sport has a major tournament open to all, where a second-division club can and has won outright on occasion, and many a club has bolstered its fortunes by the windfall of a draw against a major name. But the top flight clubs clearly no longer support such foolish sentimentality with good grace, they have no role in modern money-driven attitudes. 

 

You COULD follow Rugby League, where away games are usually within walking distance and the senior, 15-man game provides the press with a distraction from the regular humiliation of the national side by pretty much anyone else passing through. 

 

 

 

 

 

Sadly, there is little room for sentiment in the modern money-driven commercial game. 

 

Yes, I can only agree with that as a massive rugby league fan! That intense local interest, but friendly rivalry, is what makes the sport so special! 

 

20 hours ago, Gareth Collier said:

With the Third Division South being created first from the Southern League it didn't work out well for Grimsby who were relegated from Division 2 the previous season. Until the formation of the Third Division North the following season they had a fair trek to every away game!

 

Very true. Grimsby switched between the North and South divisions, which shows the geographical spread of the clubs at the time. Nowadays the opposite would be true and the line would be much further south. See my comment about Lowestoft having been in the National League North. Kings Lynn also had a spell in the Northern Premier League a few years ago. 

 

The Third Division South was historically stronger than the North, where the perenial strugglers who would later often form the dead men at the bottom of the Fourth Division in later years came from - see Hartlepool, Halifax, Rochdale, Darlington Workington, Barrow, Southport, New Brighton etc. The Third Division South on the other hand had the likes of Crystal Palace and Ipswich. 

 

A Third Division South would again probably be stronger nowadays. It's sadly (in my opinion) indicative of the north-south divide in all aspects of the UK, economically and culturally. 

 

22 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Didn't we used to have that, even in the main leagues?!

 

Hobby, didn't you know football was invented in 1992? 

 

Oh and forget the Premier League, the big game of the day is undoubtedly at Wembley. 90,000 fans for what will undoubtedly be a wonderful, joyful occasion for fans of two clubs who have been through the mill in recent years. Haway Sunderland, you can do it!! 

Edited March 31, 2019 by south_tyne
Added my support for the Mackems!!

[rockershovel]

I’m a life-long follower of rugby union and I’ve never been able to summon much enthusiasm for RL, which appears to be rugby for people who don’t actually understand rugby at all. As you say, it’s probably a local thing...

 

Rugby Union seems to be getting over its recent infatuation with American Football, which is no bad thing. I quite enjoy the grid-iron game but don’t see any great connection with the Senior Code. Still, at least actual tackling appears to be returning in the 15-man game, along with actual rucking, both of which developments I very much approve of. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Claude_Dreyfus]

12 hours ago, south_tyne said:

Oh and forget the Premier League, the big game of the day is undoubtedly at Wembley. 90,000 fans for what will undoubtedly be a wonderful, joyful occasion for fans of two clubs who have been through the mill in recent years. Haway Sunderland, you can do it!! 

 

Yes indeed. Two big clubs laid low over recent seasons...as proven by the large attendance.

 

Pity someone had to lose, but being a Pompey fan, I was happy with the result. Nice to have some silverware after the rather rocky last few years. In Kenny we trust!

[south_tyne]

2 hours ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

 

Yes indeed. Two big clubs laid low over recent seasons...as proven by the large attendance.

 

Pity someone had to lose, but being a Pompey fan, I was happy with the result. Nice to have some silverware after the rather rocky last few years. In Kenny we trust!

 

Congratulations! Although they are not my team, given where I am from, I wanted Sunderland to win, but I was still pleased for Pompey. More importantly it was great for both sets of fans to have their day out at Wembley - they all deserve it. Such a cruel way to lose though. 

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if both teams are back at Wembley for a repeat of the fixture in the play-off final in May...... 

[Torper]

I was astonished to read that some (most?) teams in English leagues as low as the Northern Premier are full time.  Up here in Scotland, almost all teams in divisions 1 and 2 (ie the lower two divisions) are part time, with players and staff getting together twice a week for training - Raith Rovers is the only exception I can think of, and they are far from invincible, having been beaten by the part time side I support (Forfar) a couple of weeks ago.  Perhaps that's why most Scottish senior lower league sides are financially fairly sound.

 

DT

[Joseph_Pestell]

Scotland illustrates the point. Until quite recently (when the fourth tier then called Third Division was created) nearly all senior Scottish clubs were in the Lowlands. So the away travelling for most is much lesser distances than in England. One can see why Berwick prefer to be in Scottish football rather than English.

[peanuts]

39 minutes ago, Torper said:

I was astonished to read that some (most?) teams in English leagues as low as the Northern Premier are full time.  Up here in Scotland, almost all teams in divisions 1 and 2 (ie the lower two divisions) are part time, with players and staff getting together twice a week for training - Raith Rovers is the only exception I can think of, and they are far from invincible, having been beaten by the part time side I support (Forfar) a couple of weeks ago.  Perhaps that's why most Scottish senior lower league sides are financially fairly sound.

 

DT

indeed Raith are some  ten points behind the part timers of Arbroath who have looked certainties for promotion most of the season 

[south_tyne]

41 minutes ago, Torper said:

I was astonished to read that some (most?) teams in English leagues as low as the Northern Premier are full time.  Up here in Scotland, almost all teams in divisions 1 and 2 (ie the lower two divisions) are part time, with players and staff getting together twice a week for training - Raith Rovers is the only exception I can think of, and they are far from invincible, having been beaten by the part time side I support (Forfar) a couple of weeks ago.  Perhaps that's why most Scottish senior lower league sides are financially fairly sound.

 

DT

 

Professionalism has trickled down a long way now. The Conference North has a number of such teams, or at least quite a number of the players if not the full squad - York and Darlington for instance. Further down, I know that some of the players at South Shields in the Northern Premier League are full time. I cannot see it being sustainable. In the long run, I would have thought that more clubs would have to become part-time, but the evidence seems to fly in the face of that logic and more clubs are full-time. 

 

My own club (Gateshead) are full time in the fifth tier. Anecdotally, we need to get a gate of 2,000 to break even; given our average home attendance this season is around 650, it shows that we are simply not sustainable. We are far from the only club in this situation. 

 

28 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Scotland illustrates the point. Until quite recently (when the fourth tier then called Third Division was created) nearly all senior Scottish clubs were in the Lowlands. So the away travelling for most is much lesser distances than in England. One can see why Berwick prefer to be in Scottish football rather than English.

 

Definitely. We would be better of playing in Scotland too, rather than making the trips to Dover, Eastleigh, Woking etc  

 

Worryingly, Berwick are in danger of finishing bottom and having to edure the play-off against the Highland/Lowland League champion to stay in the league. 

 

Interestingly, as I understand Berwick train in Edinburgh during the week as that is where the majority of their players are based. I know a few years ago they used to have two training groups - one in Edinburgh and another in Newcastle - who would only meet up on a matchday! Shows the problems that extreme geography can present. To be honest, I think the standard in Scottish League Two is maybe equivalent to the lower reaches of the Northern  Premier League or even more likely to the Northern League. 

 

PS - speaking of the Highland League, our old friends Fort William continue with usual form....... their last three games have seen 11-0, 6-0 and 5-0 losses!! 

Edited April 1, 2019 by south_tyne
Spelling

[peanuts]

i look at the mess happening at boundary park and wonder how long it will be before we are re starting at the bottom of the pyramid onto our third manager of the season already bills not being paid suppliers bailing out left right and center .owner who has only just realized that all he owns is the badge and the players he pays rent to the landlords for three sides of the ground that we can make little or no additional income from  outside of matchdays . the only stand that makes anymoney is owned and run by the former owners with the rents from the gym and function rooms all going to them . there is NO club shop this was closed and turned into a branch of sportdirect  thats now closed due to lack of business lovely electronic pitch side advertising boards  yep youve guessed it owned by former owners the whole mess is just unsustainable in the long term i fear we will be the next casualty 

[south_tyne]

40 minutes ago, peanuts said:

i look at the mess happening at boundary park and wonder how long it will be before we are re starting at the bottom of the pyramid onto our third manager of the season already bills not being paid suppliers bailing out left right and center .owner who has only just realized that all he owns is the badge and the players he pays rent to the landlords for three sides of the ground that we can make little or no additional income from  outside of matchdays . the only stand that makes anymoney is owned and run by the former owners with the rents from the gym and function rooms all going to them . there is NO club shop this was closed and turned into a branch of sportdirect  thats now closed due to lack of business lovely electronic pitch side advertising boards  yep youve guessed it owned by former owners the whole mess is just unsustainable in the long term i fear we will be the next casualty 

 

It's really worrying times, I feel for you. Sadly the precedent is there - I saw it happen close at hand at Darlington and it was a painful experience. Ths Quakers are still two promotions away from a return to the Football League. I hope it doesn't get any worse for you. 

[Torper]

1 hour ago, south_tyne said:

Definitely. We would be better of playing in Scotland too, rather than making the trips to Dover, Eastleigh, Woking etc ................To be honest, I think the standard in Scottish League Two is maybe equivalent to the lower reaches of the Northern  Premier League or even more likely to the Northern League. 

 

PS - speaking of the Highland League, our old friends Fort William continue with usual form....... their last three games have seen 11-0, 6-0 and 5-0 losses!! 

But that surely shows that The Fort are improving!

As for the standard in Scottish League 2, it's difficult assessing it because clubs there seldom play against English sides.  I think that once you get to the lower reaches of football you tend to find that players are much of a muchness, with a few stars standing out who are rapidly snapped up by bigger clubs.  I do note that in this season's Irn Bru Cup, Sutton United of the Conference Premier beat Scottish League One side Airdrie 1-0 before going out on penalties to League of Ireland Premier side Bohemians, while Boreham Wood, also of the Conference Premier, lost on penalties against Dunfermline of the Scottish Championship.  The only occasion on which I can remember Forfar playing against an English side was in july 2010 when they lost 3-2 against Everton (to be fair, it was an "Everton XI")

 

DT

[NorthBrit]

I do not know if it has been mentioned before, but have you seen the teams competing in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Scottish_Challenge_Cup ?

 

Eight teams are not from Scotland.

[Joseph_Pestell]

8 minutes ago, NorthBrit said:

I do not know if it has been mentioned before, but have you seen the teams competing in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Scottish_Challenge_Cup ?

 

Eight teams are not from Scotland.

Post immediately above yours.