bertiedog Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 As they say, it all depends on how big! ...but beards are common on older drivers and firemen, in most Victorian period photos. Old Post card I have, hand coloured, of LBSCR station at Lewes, Sussex, in the1890's might provide ideas for a small layout. Pity there is no LBSCR locomotive was in the shot........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Bertiedog, T.I.C. I see they have been testing the suspension of the stock in the yard, presumably checking if 'springing' is better than '3 point - rocking W irons, or flexichas........ Some nice check rail as well through the main station platforms, we don't see many layouts with that, although back in the 80's my own 'Holywell Town' had a continuos check rail. PS - Did you ever get hold of any of Henry Bouchers basic etched kits for the early Joseph Wright coaches (1850's - 60's), the LNWR, LSWR etc.' had some and presumably the LBSC's Bird Cage Brake lookouts were similar. All those I had have long gone, I just have one 4 comp., compo., running on Penlan (the layout). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Investigating the photo shows whatever is laying on the line is there in another copy of the same photograph of Lewes Station in the Railway Magazine of 1946, it is there quite clearly. It appears alongside a ground signal?..or buffer stop?...very strange....... The main line curves are very tight, all the lines through Lewes were altered and re-aligned, stations moved etc, all because of the tight locations with the South Downs etc around Lewes. Several lines including branches were closed, as Lewes was well served, perhaps over much by the early railways. It was the County Town for the whole of Sussex then, with the famous Prison and Assize court., and a busy market town. I have no other LBSCR stock, I am investigating the 5&9 kits and Roxey for the future, as I said not really a full layout , more a diorama, and not purely LBSCR as I have a LCDR Crampton, and another being built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Could it be some form of scotch to prevent stock rolling out of the two sidings onto a running line? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Maybe the "ground signal" you can just half see is a rotating disk which shows when the bar is down on the track or not? They surely would not use just a bar on it;s own? It does look like the most likely explanation, The track there is quite complex, a three way and single slip on top of each other. Stephen.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 "...but beards are common on older drivers and firemen, in most Victorian period photos." Perhaps the two gentlemen on this footplate were what you had in mind? http://early-lbscr.c...er/complete.jpg Courtesy of Ian White - from his East Gristead web site. Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Having looked through my various Terrier books it seems that coal came in big lumps in the early 1900's, stacked to get the maximum volume in the bunker. One photo shows a loco with coal rails with the coal stacked up to roof height. One assumes a hammer was carried... For bearded Victorians Mikkel's Farthing blog has this entry which may be of interest, see also his entry on footplate crew. Again the Terrier books show some fine facial hair being worn by footplatemen. As for the Lewes photo I would say that a scotch would be the most likely explanation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 But Burgandy isn't this the trap we've been told to avoid, a model of a model of a mod...... (meant in the best of humour ). Looking through numeroues Victorian railway books this evening, not many beards I'm sorry to say, but some enormous 'taches, real Walrus affairs abounded. Just looked at Halfwit's posting directing us to Mikkel's Farthing Blog, there's some 'taches there too. Re., the Scotch block, they seem to crop up in numerous Victorian railway scenes, presumably before legistation caught up with their use and catch/trap points* etc., became the legal requirement (* whatever I call them, it's bound to be wrong). There was a similar Scotch Block in a photo on the front cover of a Great Eastern Rly Soc., magazines, must be 20 - 30 years ago now - in a big railway station. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Victorian Driver and Fireman figures don't seem to abound on the marketplace, I had seen Monty, (Dart Castings), and Aidan Campbell figures, I have not checked the Langley range as yet, or I will have to go back to carving one or two from scratch (I used to make master military figures for casting, easier in the larger scales).Can't spot many bearded drivers in photos on the net, I have seen plenty in books and NRM ex Science Museum file shots. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 It's a locked scotch. I don't know the layout of this station but it does seem strange. Unless there were some more off to the left. The reason that I say that is because the slip in the right foreground 'could' act as a trap! but as the scotch is there it cant. The scotch would be locked to the box and could only be moved (manually) when the road was given, hence the shunting signal. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Attached pictures of a wheel chock once at Beverley Cherry Tree. Its purpose was to arrest any run aways from the elevated coal depot and stop them before they ran through the level crossing gates and on to the highway. It was hand worked, not signalled and not connected to the signal box locking frame. Best Wishes, Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Working Scotch blocks in model form on Sheep Pasture Incline, seventh photo down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 "I don't know the layout of this station but it does seem strange." The layout at Lewes is rather slightly complicated story. At the time of this photo, the visible main line is to/from London, with the photographers back turned to the line from Hastings and Newhaven. The line coming in from the far left is from Brighton and therefore also a main traffic route with its own platforms. The slip and three way service a bay platform and a small fan of sidings that were set out in the angle between the two sets of platforms. Anything rolling out of these sidings would inevitably end up on the main line, so I can see that a scotch block might be a good idea. I take Penlan's point about models of models. However, on one of the first pages of LB&SCR Album by Klaus Marx and John Minnis, there are two photos which include people in them. In the lower photo, posed at Battersea shed in the 1870s, of six men visible, two are clean shaven (apparently the younger ones) and the other four either have a full set, or a beard along the lower jawline. Five are wearing caps of various descriptions and one is wearing what looks like a rather tall bowler hat. I would accept that this is hardly a statistically meaningful sample, but it does give justification for the crew on Ian White's model. Like all fashions, things change, and by WWI I suspect that appearances would have been noticably different. (Screwing down the safety valves, as in Ian's photo caption, was also a fashion for a while!) Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 A 1895 map of Lewes, Sussex, for a small county town it had complex railway connections. My Grandmother came from there, the the road just beyound the Brighton Line part of the station, out of view on the shot at the left.. Any layout would only pick certain bits to model, even the compact size would be vast in 4mm. Age expired copyright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2011 It's a locked scotch. I don't know the layout of this station but it does seem strange. Unless there were some more off to the left. The reason that I say that is because the slip in the right foreground 'could' act as a trap! but as the scotch is there it cant. The scotch would be locked to the box and could only be moved (manually) when the road was given, hence the shunting signal. OzzyO. I would be surprised if it was connected to the 'box in any way - most likely to be hand worked as MickNich has illustrated. As we can't see it very clearly we don't know if it is protecting other lines from something coming out of the siding (most likely I think) or protecting vehicles in the siding from something else being shunted into them (less likely but still feasible). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I would be surprised if it was connected to the 'box in any way - most likely to be hand worked as MickNich has illustrated. As we can't see it very clearly we don't know if it is protecting other lines from something coming out of the siding (most likely I think) or protecting vehicles in the siding from something else being shunted into them (less likely but still feasible). I was basing my assumption on the "point roding" alongside the platform to the right as it appears to finish around this location. And with having the signal to the left of it both could be worked from the same set of roding. When I say locked, I don't mean that the box moved the scotch just released a lock (like a facing point lock), so that the scotch could them be moved by hand. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebbles Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 You may wish to seek out a copy of "E.J.BEDFORD of LEWIS " A Wild Swan Publication published in 1989. Full of photos and a couple of track plans of Lewis Station. In the main photo I seem to recall the line to the left of the left hand platform lead to the cattle market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 "A 1895 map of Lewes, Sussex, for a small county town it had complex railway connections." The map above shows the layout for the third station at Lewes which came into use in 1889. I am pretty sure that the photo dates from the 1870s, when the 2nd arrangement of Lewes was in use with the "Swiss Cottage" station building. If anyone has the relevant Middleton Press books (Haywards Heath to Seaford and Brighton to Eastbourne), Lewes features in some detail. Haywards Heath to Seaford includes a photo that is very similar to the postcard reproduced above and Brighton to Eastbourne includes some sketches which show the successive evolutions of the layout. John Minnis' book "E J Bedford of Lewes" is also well worth looking at. The point of all this is that I don't think that the photo is quite where Bertiedog has put the arrow. The 1889 rebuild involved moving the whole station southward (downwards on the map) to reduce the curvature on the London lines. The old alignment survived, as the goods avoiding lines ( the very snaky S bend), slightly to the north. The photo is therefore of the alignment of the older, more sharply curved route, rather than the rebuilt, third station. My apologies that this has now wandered some way from the ins and outs of constructing a Terrier! Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 From memory, I recall cApril 1956, there was in the "Railway Modeller" an illustrated two page article on Lewis. One of the illustrations showed what the "RM" incorrectly called a "Fourway Point". I still have the magazine. Best Wishes, Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 According to the map the cattle market is on the main line, just under the bridge over the line, on the west side of the line. Gran disliked the market, the cattle were driven in herds through the streets straight from the farms in those days, helping themselves to plants in front gardens and leaving visiting cards in the road that were later transferred to gardens! Lewes was packed on Market days and the stations were very busy, but quite quiet on most days. It was quite common at the main line station to see reserved coaches with prisoners being escorted to either the Assize Court or to the Lewes Prison, the other passengers had to depart the station before the prisoners were taken outside to waiting horse drawn Black Marias, to transfer to the Lewes Prison........ Some never came back as executions were done at Lewes. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 The Semg website has re-prints of articles from Railway Magazine and this one on Lewes http://www.semgonline.com/RlyMag/LewesStationMystery-1.pdf has some very clear diagrams of the old and new stations which allow the view in the postcard to be located. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 The railway magazine articles quotes the photo used on the Postcard as 1887, quite a number of Brighton Line references.. I have no books on the LBSCR, have to look for s/hand, but the net should suffice, as it is not modelling the whole station or any portion exactly. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 ....Lewes was .....the County Town for the whole of Sussex then, with the famous Prison and Assize court.... Yes, I visited a client at HMP Lewes a couple of years ago. The frontage of the prison actually looks deceptively small when you pass by on the road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Ian White has made a similar model, using the K's Terrier body with Branchlines underpinnings. The open-frame motor is the one suggested by the proprietor (Andy Mullins) as is the method of installation. Just to add to the beard saga, a genuine LBSCR locomotive crew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Funny, then, that the Branchlines very own instruction sheet, makes absolutely no mention of a recommended motor or any mention of how or where to mount it. I had thought of mounting it that way, but the drive has to be to the rear axle, and I always try to drive the middle axle. The motor in the photo must also be a fraction shorter, the flywheel clearance was not there at any angle I checked with the small five pole I had to hand. I wanted to retain this particular motor as it runs so well, very smooth and near silent.. The same small motor could be reversed to the middle axle and canted over as in the photo, but when I checked the flywheel proved impossible to fit....and I always fit a flywheel, where practical. I did have the smallest Mashima 5 pole as an alternative , but it was not so powerful and was a bit noisier in comparison. it also started rotation at a higher current and voltage than the skewed slot 5 pole, which I do not know who the maker is, but I believe Chinese made for Tenshodo. Keeping the motor low allows space all along the tanks in case a DCC decoder is fitted later on. The loco is not short of weight, so no ballast space is needed. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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