bertiedog Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Are the main makers of LBSCR coaches Roxey, 5&9 Models, and EB Models, (and old Keyser cast coach kits)? are there any others out there?..to suit about 1870 onwards, Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Branchlines do a comprehensive range of 6 wheel coaches and some NPCS items, as well as the early Billinton 48' bogie stock, and some later 54' items. London Road Models do the straight sided Stroudley 4 wheel full brake and an early 4w luggage van. Blacksmith do the later, post-1906 balloon stock, so probably outside your period, as is Worsley Works bogie saloon. Smallbrook have recently introduced a set of Stroudley 4 wheelers cast in resin, based on the Isle of Wight set, like the old Keyser ones. Ian MacCormac has produced some etched Craven 1st class coaches and there are other items such as a bullion van in the pipeline. Out of production, but occasionally available are: D&S who did the double ended brake van and various 6 wheel CCT, also a horse box, and Smokey Loco had an interesting range which included various Stroudley and Billinton saloons, the Royal Train and three Royal Mail vehicles. All in all the Brighton has been pretty well catered for, unlike many other major lines, but unfortunately the LBSC had a tendency to produce a huge number of varieties, often producing just a handful of each type, so although there is a comprehensive selection as noted above, they represent only a small percentage of the total number of designs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Thanks, that confirms the searches on the net, some makers do not have a site of course. I'll check out the Smallbrook, I used to have a set of K's , which were very heavy being cast. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 ........ All in all the Brighton has been pretty well catered for, ...... Checking on the Modelling the LBSCR's web site under coaches here :- http://www.lbscr.dem...ml#Kits-Coaches they indeed are well catered for, even if only a % are still available, unfortunately there rather a lot of red dot's in the LH column (Currently thought not to be available) . I'm tempted to say even better than the LNWR B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Ian MacCormac has produced some etched Craven 1st class coaches and there are other items such as a bullion van in the pipeline. I can confirm that Ian MacCormac's bullion van is definitely out of the pipeline! Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Checking on the Modelling the LBSCR's web site under coaches here :- http://www.lbscr.dem...ml#Kits-Coaches they indeed are well catered for, even if only a % are still available, unfortunately there rather a lot of red dot's in the LH column (Currently thought not to be available) . ... and not updated for 3+ years but otherwise a nice resource Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Just an update on the available coach kits. Peter K (Kemilway) still has available his etchings for a 4w butter van. Unfortunately the drawing that was used was incorrect, so not one for the experts, and you need to source all the castings etc. Alan Gibson produced a range of 54' coaches as used on the Isle of Wight. These are theoretically within the David Geen range, but not currently available. They are obviously not really applicable to an early main land setting, and they also, I understand have subtle design flaws that make them inaccurate. The excellent Microrail kit range included three 6 wheelers, a full third, a Billinton centre ducket full brake and the Grand Vitesse van. They appear at various sales sites, sometimes under the Alan Gibson name, and also are in the David Geen range, and at the last Scaleforum he was selling the etches only off at a reasonable price. Whether he has any left is debatable, I don't think they have featured on his website. Finally, Jidenco / Falcon produced a late (1920-ish) push-pull double set. Most people must be aware of the current (non) availability of this range. In addition, this kit was not one of their better ones, and certainly would not stand comparison with any of the other etched offerings on the market. Experts rank it so low that I have been offered the kit gratis on more than one occasion to get if off their hands! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think there's enough to go on with, it only needs a few coaches and a small selection of wagons. I can't get to shows so would expect to order via the net etc. I have some drawings coming and might do some wagons from scratch to save expenses. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 There are some K's LBSCR coaches on Ebay at the moment but I expect silly prices will overtake them. The Smallbrook coaches do look like K's, although the sample shots don't really do them justice, the roofs are poorly fitted in the advert shots, mind you better fit than most K's were! The Bullion Van looks too specialised, being from Newhaven to London.....interesting though. Not after exact detailing or type, just a small selection for a small layout, fiddle yard to fiddle yard, with most of the station "under the bridge", a cunning plan to save space, with long trains going through a small layout diorama. When pulling in from the south east the loco will disappear under the over bridge leaving just two coaches visible, and the reverse on the down line, most of the train still out of sight till it moves off. The small goods siding can be modelled, and a single line branch off to the west, using slips to save space. Buildings in wood and plastic, with lots of detailing as it's easy when small footprint. I'll shuffle the plan around till it shrinks to unoperatable, and then relent and expand it!! It is purely for home use, no exhibitions as I have no transport these days. Loco work on hold for a day or two whilst spring cleaning to find space for the layout etc. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Stephen, K's coaches go for a fortune now. I sold 3 3rd class coaches 4 years ago, which were fitted with D&S etched W irons (great runners)interior seating and compartments and just finished in unlined green. They all went for £20+. Now thats how much an unmade one goes for when they are described properly. To get them at reasonable prices you have to find them badly described with poor pictures etc. I have seen the Smallbrook coaches at a show and they look very good. What happenned to the K's wagon and coach masters/moulds ? NuCast and IKB have the locos, given the prices the s/h ones go for some of them would be good sellers if they were up dated. I wonder if someone like Comet might do them in etched brass, or do body and ends like Shire Scenes did with their GWR etches. With more and more RTR SR tanks available there must be a market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think ABS had some of the masters for rolling stock, no idea about the coaches though. The Ebay coaches are un-made, same seller has half built as well, The castings are warped,, he says, but might be recoverable, but the price is certain to rocket above new etched!!! Might as well get Roxey, which are however a bit more pricey. The older Craven types that 5&9 models do look nice, it really is a matter of cost for a small fleet of say 5 to six coaches, plus the railcar. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 Is it right that there are goods brake vans and passenger brake vans on the early LBSCR, in other words were Craven and early Stroudley un-braked coaches, relying on a brake wagon , and the loco brakes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Is it right that there are goods brake vans and passenger brake vans on the early LBSCR, in other words were Craven and early Stroudley un-braked coaches, relying on a brake wagon , and the loco brakes? Stephen Following the Newark brake trials of 1875, Stroudley conducted a pretty determined campaign to make sure that all passenger locos and rolling stock were fitted with the Westinghouse brake by the early 1880s. After that time, passenger trains would have been fully fitted. Before then, brakes would have been limited to the loco and brake van(s). For suburban and some branch trains, it was not uncommon to have a passenger vehicle, or vehicles, with a brake compartment (brake/3rd, brake compo, etc). Equally, where traffic required, a full brake might be provided. Main line trains tended to have full brakes - probably reflecting the VIctorian propensity to travel with masses of luggage. If the question is about distinguishing between goods and passenger brake vans, the simple answer is that goods were grey and passenger were mahogany. Mostly, there were pretty clear differences in design but there is one vehicle which is photographed in goods traffic, although showing many of the features of an early passenger van. It appears in the 5&9 range at http://www.5and9mode....uk/wagons.html It may simply have been relegated to goods traffic towards the end of its career (possibly not worth the investment of fitting with the Westinghouse brake?). I hope that this helps Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 I'll do one of the LBSCR lantern passenger brakes from scratch at least for the body, in wood. Some of the pictures of these early brake wagons appear to show a massive beam underneath, between the brake shoes, was this part of the brake driving mechanism? Later types appear more conventional underneath. Two converted Hornby 4w Thomas coaches can be used as well to get a basic passenger train for the Terrier. They will need a faux wood finish, interior and lining, plus roof vent alterations and complete strip of the underframe, with decent larger wheelsets. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS239 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Two converted Hornby 4w Thomas coaches can be used as well to get a basic passenger train for the Terrier. Try and get hold of the 4W coaches that came in the 'Thomas and Bertie Great race set' [i think that was what it was called] they're completely different than the standard 4W coaches that Hornby have done in various liveries that have been discussed recently elsewhere on the forum. The T&B coaches were battery powered [well one was] and they pushed a dummy 'Thomas' loco around a plastic channel-section track,trying to avoid 'Bertie' the bus which ran round a road that criss-crossed the 'rail' track,I know this is not relevant as such,but it might help identify the coaches to which I am referring. Now to the relevant bit: The underframes on these coaches are completely toy-like with large diameter flangeless wheels and need to be consigned to the bin,BUT,the bodies are actually quite reasonable mouldings,being 4 compartments long and having proper panelling,[unlike the 'normal' Hornby 4W coach] you'll need to file off the moulded nose[from the face]from one end and add detail,but these coaches can usually be picked up for next-to-nothing because they are useless on a normal layout. If you're building your own underframes these coaches would provide a better starting point than the oddly proportioned and strangely panelled standard Hornby 4 wheeler..they're also good for turning into grounded bodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 This is the conversion plan, lowering, new flatter roof, body sides bottom and top reduced in height, chassis stripped of Tri-ang couplings , gas tank added, new buffers at correct height., scale sized wheels. Colour wood finish, with lining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Didn't/don't Ratio do a rather nice set of four-wheel coaches - I remeber doing a conversion to OO9 many years ago using them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 Do you mean the GWR 5 Compartment 4 wheelers? ...They are still produced and I would be interested as they are quite reasonable in cost .....£9.50 ..pretty generic in design, so may be usable. New larger roof vents, these don't require lowering etc., new buffers, and overall faux varnished wood finish. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Yes - those are the ones I was thinking of - they work very well as NG bogie coaches, and I thought they might do to go with the tank loco - mind you, the conversion was done back in the early 70's and I didn't even remember they were GWR! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 The Ratio coach looks as though a complete compartment can easily be removed and the panelling still match, so I may go to that route to get some LBSCR coaches, the underframe is better than the Hornby, right buffer height etc., only the roof to modify for the vents. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 Considering this as second loco, I have the driving wheels and bogie wheels already, not much else to build that is complex, although the piston guides are small. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted April 6, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2011 Considering this as second loco, I have the driving wheels and bogie wheels already, not much else to build that is complex, although the piston guides are small. 136 and the Terriers didn't overlap by much chronologically. 136 was out of work in the late 1870s, having latterly been station pilot at Portsmouth - at a time when the universally useful Terriers were still being built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Considering this as second loco, I have the driving wheels and bogie wheels already, not much else to build that is complex, although the piston guides are small. Stephen. Nice engine! Am I right in thinking it's a 'Crewe Type' Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 No exact period is being modelled, just any LBSCR till the Edwardian period, why make it so limited? The reason for 136 is parts are easy, all available now, and it is interesting......far too few early locos are made, and a station pilot and shunter is useful. Sorting out a chassis this evening, and a spare Tenshodo motor and gears, very suitable for the tiny space in there. Simple chimney and plain dome, not sure whether the tank is radial with the boiler or elliptical surface, no front view in Ahrons etc. very easy to roll either shape, and a nice plain cab, suits figures and bits and pieces n the footplate........not too difficult to balance the weight, a lead sheet floor to the footplate should do it. Does anybody have a book with a front view? or know if the tank is radial or elliptical? Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Bradley describes this loco as having a square topped tank. 136 was one of four proposed 4-4-0 tanks of varying designs, but only two were built as such, the others appeared as 2-2-2 tanks. Photos of Craven locos, especially those that disappeared by 1874, are extremely rare, but there is one of one of the later pair, after a subsequent rebuild into a 2-4-0, which has what could be described as square topped which is probably the best indication one might get after 130 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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