buffalo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) ...paint does not adhere very well to my steel wire Bowser lift rings... Thoroughly degrease them then blacken with something like Birchwood Casey Gun Blue. If they still need painting after that, they should take paint quite well. Nick Edited February 16, 2012 by buffalo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi Dave, the photo is just below level, did you have a look at the CAD on page 3 of the thread, l am just interested in the clear difference between that one and the latest version, perhaps we are looking at somewhere in between the two. here is another photo, any thoughts on the wipers which should be straight aswell, cheers, Mike. The cadds model I produced shows the vertical distance between the ridge of the nose and the outer edge of the nose to be 0.478mm, which equates to 1.59inches on the prototype. It can be quite difficult with Cadds models to view things with the in perspective as the real thing, even if looking at the same level as the vanishing points can vary and since the nose on the Western is raked back the effect is often exagerated. Regards Mark Humphrys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromans Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The cadds model I produced shows the vertical distance between the ridge of the nose and the outer edge of the nose to be 0.478mm, which equates to 1.59inches on the prototype. It can be quite difficult with Cadds models to view things with the in perspective as the real thing, even if looking at the same level as the vanishing points can vary and since the nose on the Western is raked back the effect is often exagerated. Regards Mark Humphrys Hello Mark, That's fine l was just interested in the difference between one of the original CADs which looked correct and the latest version which personally, looks like it has lost the slope. l hope my 2nd photo highlights this. as long as you are satisfied that it is a true representation of the real thing, you are the CAD expert, that's great, just trying to assist and add my perspective as someone who spends a lot of time with the real thing. Has anyone considered the wipers yet, no one has commented on these, but they are clearly incorrect, they should be straight, l would hate to see the finished product put out with such an obvious error after all your fabulous hard work. Best regards, Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted February 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2012 Dave - which ever way I look at the loco it's great - better than anything we have had before - your approach to this has been terrific, thank you very much. It looks like the best Western ever and maybe setting new standards for model locomotive construction and design, particularly as far as collaborative efforts are concerned. More power to your elbow Dave. I would say that this and some of the other "goodies" up the Dapol sleeve, 2012 will certainly be the year of Dapol !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted February 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2012 ...... Has anyone considered the wipers yet, ....... Mike. What about the round - ship type wipers on a couple of locos!! - Or is that going too far!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi Tromans, Wipers!!!! Don't worry they will be straight on tomorrows ( hopefully) cad/cam. The slope is definitely there on the cad/cam but not as pronounced as I think you hope it should be ( no bad thing your comments though), so I have a suggestion........... After tomorrows cad/cam we cut metal. Once the first shot is here we can examine the slope a fair bit just to be safe and if we need to alter it a bit then this should be possible before the tool is locked down for its final detail additions. How does this sound? As for the lift rings they will be stainless steel, primed with etching primer and painted. I think between the 'Guru' and yourself / others this will be something special............... Makes me think towards other WR loco's that are poorly represented. Look what we can do by pulling together? Cheers Dave 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So when do we get a D800 Warship? Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Makes me think towards other WR loco's that are poorly represented. Look what we can do by pulling together? The collective knowledge on this forum is impressive and I think you deserve kudos too for the open and constructive way you have engaged with us over the Western and class 22. How often in the past have we moaned about errors on models and wondered why manufacturers do not ask enthusiasts to help get the details right. It has been exciting to watch this crowd-sourcing operation in action and I hope Dapol benefits with improved sales as they well deserve. I wonder if other manufacturers are taking notes? 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromans Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi Tromans, Wipers!!!! Don't worry they will be straight on tomorrows ( hopefully) cad/cam. The slope is definitely there on the cad/cam but not as pronounced as I think you hope it should be ( no bad thing your comments though), so I have a suggestion........... After tomorrows cad/cam we cut metal. Once the first shot is here we can examine the slope a fair bit just to be safe and if we need to alter it a bit then this should be possible before the tool is locked down for its final detail additions. How does this sound? As for the lift rings they will be stainless steel, primed with etching primer and painted. I think between the 'Guru' and yourself / others this will be something special............... Makes me think towards other WR loco's that are poorly represented. Look what we can do by pulling together? Cheers Dave Brilliant Dave, thanks for all your patience and efforts, l am sure the finished article will be something special, l will be ordering a shed load ( pardon the pun ! ) Mike Tromans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1059 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) So when do we get a D800 Warship? Geoff Endacott Although I'd love to see accurate Swindon and NBL D800's in N, I do wonder if the financial case would add up. Its not too long since I ditched my Minitrix Warships for the new Farish model which, despite its faults looks more or less like a Warship. If Dapol brought out new 42's and 43's I would have to think long and hard before sinking money into more of them. The Western in N is a no brainer as the Farish model is so bad. In OO the financial case might be a little better as the Bachman (ex Mainline) Warship tooling is so old (although it was a very good model bodywise when it came out) STEVE Edited February 17, 2012 by D1059 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) As for the lift rings they will be stainless steel, primed with etching primer and painted. Cheers Dave Fantastic, thank you! I guess you had already thought of this anyway but I am really pleased to see that your Western will have them. Now, when you have given us the Western in 0 and N........I just wonder what other scales it could be appllied to? (ha, ha - only joking!) Cheers, John E. PS Next model: a definitive Deltic or a fabulous Forty! Edited February 17, 2012 by Allegheny1600 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted February 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2012 If Dapol were to produce a class 42 or 43 (with a preference for the latter) "Warship" in 00 to the same standard that the 52 should be then there would be a home here for several. The Mainline / Bachman one is an old tool but a robust one as the item keeps being reissued but is not quite correct and does not represent the class 43 at all. They remain however consistently good runners and even the old ones are among the most reliable traction I have, including tolerance of less-than-brightly-polished rails so there's a challenge for Dave! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted February 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) The Mainline / Bachman one is an old tool but a robust one as the item keeps being reissued but is not quite correct and does not represent the class 43 at all. They remain however consistently good runners Doesn't this just illustrate how far forward we've moved in the last few years. I too think the current Bachmann Class 42 is pretty good; the latest upgrade with lights and DCC readiness has been particularly welcome, although replacement windscreens and separately fitted wipers would have been welcome too. But I'm not sure I agree with you about its non-representation of a Class 43. I would argue it looks more like a Class 43 than the Hornby Railroad Class 42 does to a Class 42! So, bearing in mind our general reluctance to replace current models as soon as something better comes along, would Dapol get the necessary sales to justify a Class 43, even if the tooling allowed for both Class 42 and 43? A new Class 42/43 would need to be a step up in accuracy, but then which locos would Dapol model? At the level of accuracy likely to be attempted (and I'm thinking here of the Dapol Western), how many locos could be accurately represented if they were all slightly different. Edited February 20, 2012 by brushman47544 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted February 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2012 I am sincerely hoping Dapol doesn't put high-intensity style LEDs in the Western headcode boxes. While the latest Bachmann Warship is yet another superb runner the brilliant white headcode illumination is so powerful as to require both staining of the "glass" and blocking of light bleed when running in dim to dark conditions if one is not game to replace the entire LED unit with something more akin to an incandescent bulb. While that might seem like nit-picking look how far the Western project has come thanks to the input of several knowledgable members here without whom we might still be choosing between Heljan and Hornby. With Dave's latest CAD work I doubt there will be much argument as to which manufacturer produces the best-looking Western now. And hopefully the best runner as well although Heljan certainly leads the pack in this respect so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 OT, but could somebody tell me what the visual differences are between class 42 and 43? The only info I can find on the web suggests 'North British built Class 43 locomotives (D836 - D870), although visually virtually identical with the Swindon built Class 42 machines' Not possible - either identical, or not identical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 OT, but could somebody tell me what the visual differences are between class 42 and 43? The only info I can find on the web suggests 'North British built Class 43 locomotives (D836 - D870), although visually virtually identical with the Swindon built Class 42 machines' Not possible - either identical, or not identical. Some stuff here, there was a full thread somewhere here but I can't find it. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/26882-class-42-warship-boiler-roof-details/ Brian Hanson does the two type of roof fan grille and walkways that were about. I think a bigger different variant will be doing the original front end with 3 letter reporting code. (The one Hornby have attempted with paint!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 OT, but could somebody tell me what the visual differences are between class 42 and 43? The only info I can find on the web suggests 'North British built Class 43 locomotives (D836 - D870), although visually virtually identical with the Swindon built Class 42 machines' Not possible - either identical, or not identical. I'm certainly not qualified to answer the question, but have been told the roof mounted equipment is slightly different. The "class 42" has centreline exhausts while the NBL "class 43" apparently ejects the exhaust fumes in an offset manner. The roofwalks over the radiator fans are also different. It is rumoured that "class 42" D832 actually has class 43 roof fan grilles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The marker/tail lights are different designs. Swindon and Glasgow used different proprietary items from the catalogue. There's also something hard to quantify about the end roof seam where it meets the cab corner window pillar, but studied closely it looks as though the two builders used a different method or sequence in this area, with the result that one is typically more pronounced than the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 To sum up, the roof is different (exhaust vents and walkways) and the ends are different (marker lights) on D833-865. D803-12 differ from the rest of the class in having different side grilles (two-piece not three) and covered hatches below the solebar. These details didn't bother Bachmann. D866-870 lack the grilles above the nameplates which the others have on one side. D870 also had horns mounted above the cab. D818 had a different train heating boiler (different roof vent) and D830 had a different engine. D832, as mentioned before, had Class 43 style roof walkways. Geoff Endacott 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Another difference which doesn't always show up in photographs is the 'weld line' along the solebar, on 42s it's quite pronounced, whereas on 43s (not necessarily all of them though!) it is almost blended in to the panels below. One of the 43s, I think it was 858 but would need to check, has metal 'fillets' welded either side of the steps just below the cab doors, in this respect I think it's unique amongst all of the Warships. Edited February 20, 2012 by Rugd1022 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Maybe the Class 42/43 discussion should move to a new Dapol D800 Warship thread . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 D1000 Western Enterprise Ltd.Ed. STEAM Swindon ordered and confirmed !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted February 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2012 I am sincerely hoping Dapol doesn't put high-intensity style LEDs in the Western headcode boxes. While the latest Bachmann Warship is yet another superb runner the brilliant white headcode illumination is so powerful as to require both staining of the "glass" and blocking of light bleed when running in dim to dark conditions if one is not game to replace the entire LED unit with something more akin to an incandescent bulb. I think I'll ask Dapol for this version of the headcode box : (A late afternoon shot at Exeter St Davids in April 1974 - loco not identifed.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Hi chaps, just a quick update from out here. the main meeting was yesterday and we pored over the cad/cam designs and made a discovery and also agreed the changes still needed. The engineer has confirmed his understanding to all points raised and will have a revised cad design with me tomorrow. Interestingly, the gap at the top of the grilles pointed out by Mark were in fact there, however the cad picture shown on here didnt show this correctly, but...............the gap wasnt big enough, plus i noticed that the vanes of the grills were just a little too far up the grill aperture (i hope your still with me) and by lowering them all in the aperture by about 0.05mm brings then down correctly to a height i can live with visually while opening the gap slightly at the top to more of a look akin to the pictures Mark posted (thanks by ther way :-)). All the pipes will be added as well I'll post again tomorrow when i can the new designs. cheers Dave 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Hi everyone, I have finished the cad/cam with the engineer today, and all I now need to do is put it on my laptop , save the bitmap pics, convert to Jpeg and upload here. So, as I'm off for a pint and noodles out here in about 20 mins, I'll post the latest and hopefully last pics here tomorrow morning, that's about 01.00 Saturday morning UK time. Please take a few minutes to take a look and let me know if you think this is "it" and I can authorise metal cutting on Monday? Cheers Dave 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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