Mark Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Hi Chris, Thanks for the reply. Recently there has been a spate of products reviewed with shall we say 'interesting' % marks. For example one got 99% and the reviewer failed to note that although it is a super model (i have 2), the lit table lamps were not in the right place at each table, or have lamp shades painted etc (ala the pullmanns) and were merely crude clear plastic dowels through the middle of each table. Another gave us 8 out of 10 for the 2884 loco performance but readily noted in the text it couldnt be tested! I see some models in MR with predominantly high marks but others (not just Dapol's i must add) with quite low marks. The 22 was a great case in point. it got lower than another model (albeit a special comission) and while the 22 has had and still gets rave review for it's accuracy and detail, the special commission one doesnt and gets poor comments on this forum. (same reviewer by the way). Although i think the % mark needs to be scrapped, it certainly effects me when i know we have a good product (or not, read below) which some view as terrific but it gets marked down a 'huge' by most standards out of 100% for quite a minor thing. As for the Western i'm now slightly mortified that people on RMWEB are saying the face is wrong, the cab windows are wrong and it needs work to make it look correct. I'm also dissapointed that some of those very same people have seen the model in the flesh, in pictures and cad/cams here and at shows for the last 12 months or so and have sat back and said nothing. Guys, if there was a problem then you should have spoken up. The reason i ask for comments is that i truly want us all to have the best we can make, but i hate the idea that i've goofed and gotten the face wrong. If only you'd have shouted out earlier i could have done something about it. Edited for clarity Dave, As far as I am concerned the front end is as close as could be reasonably achieved given the manufacturing process. When I was designing the kit, I couldn't find anybody who could guarantee to mould the window frames to the correct thickness in resin . Personally I am very happy with the appearance of the front end, which I checked and checked again when I was carrying out my measurements. I always felt the headcode box looked small when I was developing the kit, so I paid careful attention to checking this. On the prototype, the headcode boxes are surrounded by black rubber beading and are recessed slightly. All of this area is a dirt trap which from a distance makes the head code area look much bigger than it actually is and is much more obvious with Full Yellow ends as it contrasts more starkly. I think part of the problem is people are seeing very close images and seeing the prismatic effect from the edge of the glazing. I don't really see this as a big issue and for those who want to improve on it, it will be a very easy task to do so. As far as I am concerned it is by far the most convincing Western model straight from the box and the only one that can be used as the basis to easily create a definitive fine scale 4mm model. The most important aspect is the basic shape is right! As far as brakes are concerned, these were discussed at some length during the development phase and as you know the brakes on Westerns are quite complex to do full justice to and I think you have done a pretty good job. Nobody else has even come close with the ficticious rubbish some have used and personally I like the idea that they are easily removable as it makes changing wheels much easier. Regards Mark Humphrys Edited February 15, 2013 by Mark 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted February 15, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) I've suddenly decided not to buy a Dapol Western. It hasn't got rippled panels......... Cheers, Mick Prototypically thats only the Crewe built ones Mick.....! DD this is a super model - many thanks for all the time and effort you have put in and also thanks to those on here who have contributed and helped Dapol achieve this. Re DDs warship hint - thats a shame not Dapol but will wait and see what is proposed from elsewhere - the existing one aint half bad, some seperate fittings eg wipers could improve it no end. Kind regards Phil Edited February 15, 2013 by Phil Bullock 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Re the brake rigging. DD is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. It's not loose per se, it's loose for a reason exactly as explained, would it have been better leaving it unfitted in the detail pack? I know who's brakes and brake rigging I'd rather work with when detailing/converting locos, and it's not the ones ones from B******* or H***** with half the worlds supply of superglue smeared everywhere. Ignore em Dave and carry on the good work. Mike. PS. Can't wait for the Warship, But one of the biggest complaints from MR readers in recent years has been that the fine detail is either difficult to fit or falls off or both. That complaint has applied to most if not all RTR manufacturers at some point. It could hardly be left unmentioned. My view, is that the interference fit should be tighter or that the gear should be glued. Dave has apparently accommodated those who want to change wheels etc, but are they going to be the majority of purchasers? Granted, most of the young folk on RMweb may not have a problem with it. Many Western purchasers will be the same age as me (old enough to remember them entering traffic), with the same levels of eyesight and dexterity and patience as me. Maybe, our sample had been handled a lot before it reached us and that's why the brake rigging was loose. I don't know the answer to that. It will be interesting to see - when your models start arriving - whether any of you find the same problem. (And if you do, whether you'll admit it) To put a 12-wheeler on the track usually requires that you touch the bogies. In this case it is almost impossible not to touch the brake rigging. I really hope it works out fine for everyone - including me on the one I'm buying from STEAM - but it WAS a problem on the review sample and it WAS necessary to say so, and to mark the model accordingly. Otherwise, what is the point of a review? CHRIS LEIGH 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:D1000-old_oak_common_-_1964.jpgI really, really hope D1000 doesn't come fitted with any air pipes - I don't think it was air-braked at any stage in its life, and certainly wouldn't have been in 1962 Desert Sand livery. The only pipes at both ends should be the steam heat hose and the vacuum hose. See http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/birmingham-snowhill/brlocomotives/gwrbsh1321.jpg I'm particularly glad though that it'll come pre-fitted with the lifting rings. It'll save my eyesight. As for fitting the rings, I'd imagine that the sanest way to remove them from the etch is to first thread the fine wire through the holes down one side of the etch, place that side of the etch on a small length of blu-tak, and bring it to the attention of the Dremel drill (cutting disc attachment). Lift off the etch, and you should be left with the separated rings sitting on the blu-tak. Lift the wire, and they should peel away. That's the theory. When my wallet recovers, I'll get a BFYE Western. Maroon, Golden Ochre, and green have never appealed to me, but I've always considered any Western in Desert Sand to be absolutely knockout. Hello The-Gog, D1000 was air braked later but not until it was repainted (from maroon) into blue with full yellow ends, and released from Swindon as such on 29th March 1972. Previous to this it was fitted with the extra air pipes and there is photographic proof - there's one photo of it online (sorry can't find the link!) inside the roundhouse at Old Oak in Desert Sand with the two extra pipes below the buffers and another of it in maroon in the 'Diesels In Depth' book by David Clarke and John Jennison. EDIT : google is my friend afterall... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:D1000-old_oak_common_-_1964.jpg Edited February 15, 2013 by Rugd1022 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Knowles Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Hello The-Gog, D1000 was air braked later but not until it was repainted (from maroon) into blue with full yellow ends, and released from Swindon as such on 29th March 1972. Previous to this it was fitted with the extra air pipes and there is photographic proof - there's one photo of it online (sorry can't find the link!) inside the roundhouse at Old Oak in Desert Sand with the two extra pipes below the buffers and another of it in maroon in the 'Diesels In Depth' book by David Clarke and John Jennison. EDIT : if you just google 'D1000 Western Enterprise Old Oak' the photo I'm referring to will pop up near the top of the page... ;o) This might be the link you are looking for: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:D1000-old_oak_common_-_1964.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Yes thanks Adrian - you must have posted that while I was still editing my post...! Cracking photo isn't it... note the green and maroon Thousands in the background too, and imagine the noise under that vast roof when they're all started up by the 06.00 Shed Turn crew.... deep joy ;O) Edited February 15, 2013 by Rugd1022 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-gog Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Thanks both. I've yet to find any proof that Enterprise was dual braked while in Desert Sand but before it gained yellow ends, ie in the condition that Steam have commissioned it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted February 15, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) All the clamouring to get their hands on one in the posts over the last couple of days, yet it's almost lunchtime and still none has posted photos of a model collected from STEAM...!!!! Did they get lost in the post ? I have a longer wait for mine - a WLA D1062, a standard maroon and a Kernow weathered BR blue D1068. Edited February 15, 2013 by brushman47544 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 inside the roundhouse at Old Oak in Desert Sand with the two extra pipes below the buffers and another of it in maroon in the 'Diesels In Depth' book by David Clarke and John Jennison. EDIT : google is my friend afterall... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:D1000-old_oak_common_-_1964.jpg That photo's in my saved stuff for a very good reason whilst I deliberate the masking on the corners for next week. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 still none has posted photos of a model collected from STEAM...!!!! Did they get lost in the post I would foresee that there's signed certificates and lapel badges to be put into 400 boxes today (or whenever). 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted February 15, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) But one of the biggest complaints from MR readers in recent years has been that the fine detail is either difficult to fit or falls off or both. That complaint has applied to most if not all RTR manufacturers at some point. It could hardly be left unmentioned. My view, is that the interference fit should be tighter or that the gear should be glued. Dave has apparently accommodated those who want to change wheels etc, but are they going to be the majority of purchasers? Granted, most of the young folk on RMweb may not have a problem with it. Many Western purchasers will be the same age as me (old enough to remember them entering traffic), with the same levels of eyesight and dexterity and patience as me. Maybe, our sample had been handled a lot before it reached us and that's why the brake rigging was loose. I don't know the answer to that. It will be interesting to see - when your models start arriving - whether any of you find the same problem. (And if you do, whether you'll admit it) To put a 12-wheeler on the track usually requires that you touch the bogies. In this case it is almost impossible not to touch the brake rigging. I really hope it works out fine for everyone - including me on the one I'm buying from STEAM - but it WAS a problem on the review sample and it WAS necessary to say so, and to mark the model accordingly. Otherwise, what is the point of a review? CHRIS LEIGH I wonder if it's time with this particular model that those of us (including me) used to putting models on tracks with our bare hands need to start thinking about using a railer of some sort instead? I have one, but I still find I tend to use hands most of the time. Edited February 15, 2013 by Ian J. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 whilst I deliberate the masking on the corners for next week. Make friends with someone who has a robocutter thats what im doing ! jon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) That photo's in my saved stuff for a very good reason whilst I deliberate the masking on the corners for next week. Bunging a spot of warning panel yellow on then boss...? (If that's the case Andy don't forget that the 'lip' below the warning panel should still be pained Desert Sand ). Edited February 15, 2013 by Rugd1022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 15, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2013 Thanks both. I've yet to find any proof that Enterprise was dual braked while in Desert Sand but before it gained yellow ends, ie in the condition that Steam have commissioned it. I think you'll find that was not the situation thaht 'Steam' commissioned (as I understood from them they are aiming at 'as built' condition) but early samples were around with a full array of pipework. If the final product turns up like that some backward conversion will be necessary - but at least it has proper red 'bufferbeams' and doesn't have one of those appalling splodges of yellow on its face 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Thanks both. I've yet to find any proof that Enterprise was dual braked while in Desert Sand but before it gained yellow ends, ie in the condition that Steam have commissioned it. ... and you won't either, because it wasn't! When those pipes were first fitted they were for use when two or more locos are coupled together at the head of a train and nothing to do with 'air braking' as such. As I said in my previous answer, air brakes were not fitted until much later when D1000 went into Swindon at the end of 1971 and emerged again in March '72.... by which times the two pipes below the buffers had been on the loco for some years and only the main air brake pipe was added to the right and just above the steam heat hose. If I were you I'd simply remove (or don't fit) the pipes in question when your model arrives. Regarding the actual commision - it's just a case of Steam having to use the generic tooling that Dapol have produced in order to model the rest of the class as accurately as possible within reason - if they'd had to tool up for one 'run' with no holes for the plastic pipes just to represent D1000 in as built condition, then I suspect it would probably have bumped the price up further, even with what may seem like only a minor change. Hope that helps ;O) Edit : Mike beat me to it...! Edited February 15, 2013 by Rugd1022 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 I wonder if it's time with this particular model that those of us (including me) used to putting models on tracks with our bare hands need to start thinking about using a railer of some sort instead? I have one, but I still find I tend to use hands most of the time. Just hold it by the bogie side-frames; it'll be fine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted February 15, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2013 I would foresee that there's signed certificates and lapel badges to be put into 400 boxes today (or whenever). Sorry, I wasn't expected to be taken particularly seriously... but if someone walked in would they turn them away? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Knowles Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Hi Rugd1022, Just noticed the links at the bottom of your posts to the Western Liveries - a superbly-compiled resource and well worth a look for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. As always however, it shows that official records are not always completely reliable. Going through my photo box I found this snap I took at Bodmin Road on 11 July 1969. It shows D1039 Western King in well worn maroon with SYP when according to the records it received MFYE in April 1968. Sometimes you just can't win! Edited February 15, 2013 by Adrian Knowles 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Fantastic photo Adrian but a few things occur to me - 1) are you sure it's D1039 as the OHLE flashes on the cab front are in the 'Swindon' position, 2) the nameplate looks too long to be D1039, 3) I can't make out any drivers name card clips on the cab sides below the windows which D1039 would have had being a Crewe built loco and 4) I have a suspicion the loco in your photo could be D1010 due to the weathering patterns as it matches several other photos of it from that period. Are you certain of the date and the id of the loco...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Knowles Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Fantastic photo Adrian but a few things occur to me - 1) are you sure it's D1039 as the OHLE flashes on the cab front are in the 'Swindon' position, 2) the nameplate looks too long to be D1039, 3) I can't make out any drivers name card clips on the cab sides below the windows which D1039 would have had being a Crewe built loco and 4) I have a suspicion the loco in your photo could be D1010 due to the weathering patterns as it matches several other photos of it from that period. Are you certain of the date and the id of the loco...? Pretty sure of the loco's ID and the date is definite - strange... I'll go back to negatives in the same series to see if there are any that show the name/number more clearly. Def not 1010 as it's not marked in my ABC as one I travelled behind! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Pretty sure of the loco's ID and the date is definite - strange... I'll go back to negatives in the same series to see if there are any that show the name/number more clearly. Def not 1010 as it's not marked in my ABC as one I travelled behind! A curious one then, obviously! All of the photos I have of D1039 show it with the OHLE flashes in the higher position...! You are right regarding official records though, something else could easily turn up and put things right later on too. When putting my two part livery list together I had to check, check and check again but still errors crept in which I had to put right as I was going through it. Would love to see any other photos you have by the way, as I'm sure would many others on here... the one you posted above is a corker, whatever the id of the Thousand is ;O) Edit : would you mind if I posted your photo over on the Diesel Hydraulic facebook page ?(with full credit of course) We have some real experts on there who can help... Edited February 15, 2013 by Rugd1022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Just hold it by the bogie side-frames; it'll be fine. You must be thinking of the Trix model! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I thought it came with lifting lugs. Aren't they supposed to be used for lifting it? Geoff Endacott 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 No; more of Lord & Butlers rather nice limited edition I balanced on EM track at the weekend. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted February 15, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2013 b*gger, I missed that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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