edcayton Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Just heard on the radio that the WCML is blocked at Milton Keynes by a freight train on fire. Anyone know any more yet? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 A Freighliner at Castlethorpe I've been told, with an 86 or 90 up front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted August 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2011 90042 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted August 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 30, 2011 Link to the BBC's take on the story http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-14716154 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 4L89 service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 09:18, 4L89 07:18 Basford Hall - Felixstowe at a stand Hanslope Jct reported loco 90042 on fire. By 11:00 smoke reported as billowing from loco. Cause of fire and extent of damage remains to be seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 At least there was something warm today - a barbequed Class 90. Xerces Fobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big T Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Turns out 042 is quite frizzled, mainly on the roof which suggests internal fire, maybe transformer. Will this be the end? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Plenty of spare 90's if DB will sell one to FL - get two and replace the 86 that was on fire a couple of months back at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 replace the 86 that was on fire a couple of months back at the same time. 86501 (the one with that works solo like the 90s) is back as of the last couple of days. The 86/6 that caught fire would presumably be better replaced by another 86/6 (or equivalent) jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Or just convert another couple more 86/6 to 86/5? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Or just convert another couple more 86/6 to 86/5? The long term solution if faced with a loco shortage would most likely come from more class 70's, although there is the vague notion that a UK freight version of the Bombardier Traxx would be worthwhile, should network rail get their act together in encouraging their customers to use electric traction on core routes and look at their pathing issues on a national level, rather than regionally. I'm surprised there haven't been more 86's like "Christine", but then again Freightliner seem good at regretting obvious choices, such as swapping their 10 90's for 20 87's when they were offered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 And now 90044 has suffered the same fate today at Berkhampstead - http://www.class90el...orums_area.html Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:41 am Post subject: Fire Incident with 90044 whilst working 4L89 on 17th October.Reports are coming in that 90044 has been involved in a fire incident whilst working 4L89 in the Berkhamsted area. Latest Update 11:52: It is being suggested that the fire originates from the bogies - at present the extent of damage etc is not currently known. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big T Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Hmmm straight out of an A exam too apparently.........Come on FL hire in some of those lovely blue & silver AL7's at Long Marston..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Hmmm straight out of an A exam too apparently.........Come on FL hire in some of those lovely blue & silver AL7's at Long Marston..... Or stop hiring your 90's out for the Pretendolino, which should be hauled with some quality traction in the Rail Blue livery... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supaned Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Trouble is with the Pretendolino , no VT drivers sign 86 or 87s any more , and possibly they are off the company safety case by now (as it's been a few years since the last ones were in front line service). It's not cost-effective to retrain drivers for a once weekly diagram... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 There appears to have been a numbers of fires over the last few years on Freightliner electrically hauled services, involving both Class 86 & Class 90 locos. Is it me or do these fires appear to be more common than in BR days and if so is there a common theme? The factors that come to mind are that the locomotives are getting older, possibly do more miles annually than they did in the past and changes to the maintenance regime for these locos. Is anyone else of the same opinion and is there an underlying common cause? XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
big T Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 There appears to have been a numbers of fires over the last few years on Freightliner electrically hauled services, involving both Class 86 & Class 90 locos. Is it me or do these fires appear to be more common than in BR days and if so is there a common theme? The factors that come to mind are that the locomotives are getting older, possibly do more miles annually than they did in the past and changes to the maintenance regime for these locos. Is anyone else of the same opinion and is there an underlying common cause? XF Maybe the age thing is an issue, coupled with maintainence and expenditure? I have heard it said that the fault is a general one and has been found and is being rectified...... As 298 says - it might be the class 1 situation. When locos used to doing a steady 75mph get plonked onto class 1 work, I imagine it is more stressful..... I noted 90044 tucked in behind another today heading back to Creewee..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Trouble is with the Pretendolino , no VT drivers sign 86 or 87s any more , and possibly they are off the company safety case by now (as it's been a few years since the last ones were in front line service). It's not cost-effective to retrain drivers for a once weekly diagram... Can anyone explain the safety case thing to me? Just seems like red tape of the sort beloved of the Daily Mail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted October 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 18, 2011 Safety case in simple terms is the document you have to prepare and have approved to show how you will run and maintain your rolling stock. It, like a driver's ticket, is time-limited if the traction insn't used. No safety case = nothing moves. The commonality should come to the attention of the investigating authorities who may be able to draw links between these events and make suitable recommendations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2011 Can anyone explain the safety case thing to me? Just seems like red tape of the sort beloved of the Daily Mail A company's Safety Case explains how, frequently in considerable detail, it will manage and carry out its railway operation from the management structure it will employ to its methods of - for example - recording staff hours and turns worked, maintaining and recording traincrew route knowledge, environmental considerations, accident reporting procedures (which should explain how all mandatory reports will be produced) and so on. If the company or any part of it concerned with railway operation undergoes any sort of organisational change that change has to be Safety Validated and the company's safety Case amended to reflect any such change. You can usually reckon that for most TOCs the Safety Case double side printed on A4 will take up several feet of shelf space. Operators do not normally hold safety documentation for rolling stock unless it is unique to them. Rolling stock goes through a slightly different safety evaluation process which involves lengthy technical and operational questioning of all aspects of the design, materials used etc. The end result is effectively a signed off safety case for the item but in any instance of stuff running on the national network it involves approval by various bodies (this can now be done by a 'Notified Body' under ROGS and the standard EU legislation) or panels of experts and unlike an operating company Safety Case it is not a self-certifying process (although operating companies do have to submit their Safety Case to NR for approval). Safety Cases are subject to external audit (I don't know if NR still do this but Railtrack defintely did) and most operators also use suitably qualified external auditors to carry out audits on their behalf as they are supposed to regularly audit their own systems and procedures. On the 'private' heritage/leisure railways the sort of equivalent is the Safety Management System which effectively does the same thing as a Safety Case but is far more a statement of procedures and method and the decent companies will take suitable care to use an external auditor to make sure they're suitably protected when HMRI come along and demand to see their SMS. As far as traction etc is concerned an operator's Safety Case will only deal with it indirectly in that the relevant part of it will specify the level of Driver and artisan knowledge required and how that knowledge is to be maintained. Thus a TOCs traincrew could lose knowledge of traction if they are not working on it at the required frequency or receiving the required level of refresher training, by doing it that way the operator doesn't have to re-write the Safety Case if they switch to a different type of traction. Finally all virtually all traction inherited from BR was excused from the safety and engineering vaildation processes as it was considered to have been proved safe and suitable in everyday working - this process was known as 'Grandfather Rights'. However if the traction type concerned becomes obsolete through withdrawals (or becomes obsolete in, say, passenger train service, because all dmus of that type are converted for Driver training or sandite application) then their Grandfather Rights die with them. Thus if you decide to 'do up' an old Class 121 SPC and the type is obsolete in passenger service apart from making the necessary mods to get it up to current standards you also have to take it through a safety validation process. Although a TOC might sponsor such validation they generally lack the expertise to do the work so they go to a specialist who does it for them with the Notified Body as things now are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 Nope, NR do not audit other companys' Safety Cases. I'm not even sure they exist now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 Nope, NR do not audit other companys' Safety Cases. I'm not even sure they exist now. Technically they would have been subsumed by the requirements of ROGS which as far as a national network operator is concerned means basically the same thing but quite likely with a different name (note now confirmed below by Ringo that they have become the company's SMS= Safety Management System). And I know external auditing of detail still goes on as various companies put it out to tender every now and then but I could understand that NR don't need to audit in the ROGS situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2011 I think Safety Cases became the fashion after the Piper Alpha drilling rig disaster, in which many perished. There was a whole industry created with safety practitioners becoming a prominent new breed of expert. The breakdown of BR into (initially) more than 100 companies was never going to be "safe" without some form of backcheck, and safety cases were it. Thus every new company had to produce a safety case and have it audited before being able to operate as a separate entity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Safety cases do not now exist, we all now have to work to SMS (Safety Management Systems), which are vetted and approved by the ORR, Network Rail do not do audits either, again that is down to the ORR and their intervention audits. Under the SMS's we are required to carry out all sorts of internal audits on every aspect of the operations, maintenance etc. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.