Hornby B1

[Horsetan]

See my posting on Bachmann B1. ....

 

It's only the chassis that has been re-worked. The body - if the publicity shot was anything to go by - remains much the same. Nothing to really get excited about if you don't work in "OO".

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... By the time of withdrawal they were the very last link with big pre-grouping designs (introduced in 1919)...

Some of us would differ on that - I would say the A3 was the only loco representing pre group big engines by the 1960s, the only other two types having long gone to the scrapper.

 

But that's all bye the bye, a B16, ideally rebuilt as a /2 or /3 would be very welcome.

 

And on the B1 subject, am I the only one here hopefully anticipating the Prices-slashed-bongo-fest of Summer 2012? They were far and away the cheapest 5MT to build and run, and it would be good if the model was really accurate in that respect.

[The Stationmaster]

 

It's only the chassis that has been re-worked. The body - if the publicity shot was anything to go by - remains much the same. Nothing to really get excited about if you don't work in "OO".

Speaking to the Bachmann chaps at the Swindon 'Steam' exhibition they said there were no changes at all to the body of the B1.

[coachmann]

Speaking to the Bachmann chaps at the Swindon 'Steam' exhibition they said there were no changes at all to the body of the B1.

No body changes needed so long as Bachmann is using the same finer handrail knobs it has used on its other locos for the past few years. It would be daft to do a re-run of those big clumsy 1980s handrail knobs.

[D605Eagle]

No body changes needed so long as Bachmann is using the same finer handrail knobs it has used on its other locos for the past few years. It would be daft to do a re-run of those big clumsy 1980s handrail knobs.

The photos I've seen look like they are using the finer knobs. The painting and lining look sharp as a razor too, and with the more realistic looking wheels than the Hornby model, I cannot see a reason why anybody would want to fork out £30 more for the Hornby model over the Bachmann.

[Daddyman]

If the suggestion is that there is nothing to choose between the old Bachmann body and the new Hornby one, that's tantamount to saying that the last 20 years of developments in modelling might as well not have happened.

The Bachmann body is not all that good.

They only cater for one smokebox door (which always looked odd and not recognisably based on any of the prototypes) and one type of tender side.

But more than that the cab has some odd characteristics: there's that weird gash in the roof, and the cabside windows seem too close to the roof.

There's also the question of the thickness of plastic edges on such an old model on e.g. cab sidesheets, and even if Bachmann has reduced the size of its handrail knobs (I hadn't noticed), the ones on the A2 (assuming they are the 'finer' variety) are certainly nowhere near as fine as the ones Hornby has been using for years.

There's also of course the pigs-might-fly chance that Hornby have included the Cowlairs fillets under the foorplate...

I agree on the wheels. Hornby's plastic plug-ins with those dreadful 1980s metal rims are dire, but they're easily painted out (but also easily scuffed!).

All in all then Hornby get my money for the finer and more characterful body - much as I hate giving them money after the CEO's recent comments.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Daddyman

[coachmann]

Oh I dunno. The old body moulding looks okay to me. Maybe I'm not fussy enough....?

[The Stationmaster]

Coach that doesn't look too bad at all against this (sorry but it was Kodak Tri-X in a Halina 35X, things improved a bit when I switched to using FP4)

 

[S.A.C Martin]

Only thing I would pick out are the chimney and dome, but even then that is nitpicking somewhat.

 

Coach's photograph pretty much confirms to me the Bachmann B1 body can scrub up nicely.

 

I think the question of fidelity is an interesting one. Yes, the Hornby one is finer, but again, I dislike the plastic wheel inserts with every inch of my body. The above is still recognisable as a B1 and I would argue is easier to modify into an acceptable model than I am finding with the Hornby 4VEP at present. The new Bachmann release has better valve gear which will help significantly with the overall look of the model.

[davidw]

Perhaps when clear photo's of the Hornby one verses the Bachmann are available can we only then make a better call on this?

I suspect ultimately like the 4MT, preference will be down to personal taste..............

Edited December 2, 2011 by davidw

[Timara]

If the suggestion is that there is nothing to choose between the old Bachmann body and the new Hornby one, that's tantamount to saying that the last 20 years of developments in modelling might as well not have happened.

The Bachmann body is not all that good.

 

Couldn't agree more there! It was good in its day, but that day has passed.

 

Only thing I would pick out are the chimney and dome, but even then that is nitpicking somewhat.

 

Coach's photograph pretty much confirms to me the Bachmann B1 body can scrub up nicely.

 

It can do in some areas, as has been said, but even then you can still see where it came from. In short, it will do at a price. The smokebox door is badly wrong too, as has been said by others here.

 

I think the question of fidelity is an interesting one. Yes, the Hornby one is finer, but again, I dislike the plastic wheel inserts with every inch of my body.

 

Why? Have you ever heard of paint? Transforms them if you dislike the blackened rims so much, which evidently you do. FYI, plastic-centred wheels have been the norm (Romfords/Markits excepted) for after-market replacements for yonks.

 

The above is still recognisable as a B1 and I would argue is easier to modify into an acceptable model than I am finding with the Hornby 4VEP at present.

 

It's the "modify into an acceptable model" bit that gets me here. With the Hornby one, all one needs is a change of number and you're there - no messing around at all! With the exception of some of the older models in Hornby's range, none of the current generation of what they produce that I own has ever needed modification to produce an acceptable model as they're already just that, if not more than!

 

For those of that value our time, the extra £30 between the two is worth spending just to get a better model (to our tastes that is). You only need to look at the Standard 4MT 4-6-0s to see that both models gain a following because some will buy X and others Y. Pity the better model hasn't sold as well as it ought......

 

The new Bachmann release has better valve gear which will help significantly with the overall look of the model.

 

How do you know that? Have you got the two in front of you together to be able to give a proper comparison side by side? No, the Hornby one isn't out yet. Photographs can always be misleading and I don't go judging a model from them until I see it "in the plastic", so to speak.

 

Regards,

[bluex5]

I need lots of B1's. The Bachamnn one is "good enough", it's a B1, an anonymous mixed traffic loco - I want something that reflects the prototype visually (which the Bachmann one does pretty well, see Coachmann's post above), It's a loco I need to create part of the scene I model rather than a loco I have any great affection for to the point where it has to be 100% accurate, so I'll keep the extra £30 tucked away, thanks.

[Ed-farms]

I think the Hornby one will win for me for one major benefit - the locating of the chip in the tender. I will be putting sound into mine and experience tells me the best space for the speaker is the tender so it will be easier for me if the socket is there so Hornby will be getting my vote for the B1's .

Edited December 2, 2011 by Ed-farms

[Western Scottish]

Looking at Hattons I think Bachmann is £81 and Hornby is £96 (non DCC fitted) so there is only a £15 differential. I'll wait to see the Hornby one , but given all my latest purchases from Bachmann have run well straight from the box, as opposed to having to go back and forward from the shop, I'm predisposed to the Bacchy one. It looks like a B1 - thats good enough for me!

Edited December 2, 2011 by Western Scottish

[S.A.C Martin]

It can do in some areas, as has been said, but even then you can still see where it came from. In short, it will do at a price. The smokebox door is badly wrong too, as has been said by others here.

 

Dunno about "badly wrong" but on the small side, certainly. That too can be easily fixed, and for me, cheaply as I've cast a few spare resin ones for another project. A cheap fix for a cheaper model.

 

Why? Have you ever heard of paint?

 

Yes Tim, I have. But I find the overall effect of the metal wheels simply looks better, even under some weathering. It's the one thing which always looks "wrong" to me on many model engines, weathered or not. Plastic wheels simply don't look as heavy duty as metal ones.

 

Transforms them if you dislike the blackened rims so much, which evidently you do. FYI, plastic-centred wheels have been the norm (Romfords/Markits excepted) for after-market replacements for yonks.

 

I'm well aware of that. That's why I rarely buy after market replacements unless I absolutely need to, in terms of replacing wheelsets.

 

It's the "modify into an acceptable model" bit that gets me here. With the Hornby one, all one needs is a change of number and you're there - no messing around at all! With the exception of some of the older models in Hornby's range, none of the current generation of what they produce that I own has ever needed modification to produce an acceptable model as they're already just that, if not more than!

 

For those of that value our time, the extra £30 between the two is worth spending just to get a better model (to our tastes that is). You only need to look at the Standard 4MT 4-6-0s to see that both models gain a following because some will buy X and others Y. Pity the better model hasn't sold as well as it ought......

 

Thing is Tim, it's not exactly a sow's purse to begin with, and it's really minor things that need altering to make it acceptable, at least for me. I rather enjoy the modifying, to be frank.

 

How do you know that? Have you got the two in front of you together to be able to give a proper comparison side by side? No, the Hornby one isn't out yet. Photographs can always be misleading and I don't go judging a model from them until I see it "in the plastic", so to speak.

 

A photograph of the pre-production Bachmann B1 (with improved valve gear) and photographs of the pre-production model have been around for a few months now on the Bachmann website. They got rid of the plastic components in the valve gear which suits me fine. I did not say it would be better than the Hornby model - merely that it would be finer than it was previously!

 

The Hornby model has had a surprising number of photographs of its pre-production models too, but to be frank I've never been a fan of Hornby valve gear either...it always looks a little too slim, even when weathered, compared to the more robust Bachmann valve gear used on, say, the A1. Compare its valve gear to the Hornby A3 and you'll see what I mean. But that's personal taste, I feel.

 

I accept wholeheartedly, for a full picture of both models, you need to see the final ones in the flesh to make a decision. However, personal to me, the Bachmann one for its price and its current form looks to be adequate for my needs. I'm working to a budget and making my own resin replacement components has been one of those avenues. If I buy three Bachmann B1s and replace the smokebox door with something better looking, it'll be no bad thing and I'll have done some modelling to boot (something we are always very insistent on doing!)

Edited December 2, 2011 by S.A.C Martin

[Guest Max Stafford]

Is that a Sow's Purse or a Silk Ear, Simon? Wouldn't say no to a couple of those resin doors if you have any spare either!

 

Dave.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Max Stafford

[S.A.C Martin]

Is that a Sow's Purse or a Silk Ear, Simon?

 

Dave.

 

I believe the appropriate phrase here is "d'oh!"

 

Wouldn't say no to a couple of those resin doors if you have any spare either!

 

Dave.

 

I'll see what I can do Dave. I've cast two successfully and one badly thus far, and a few other bits and bobs I've had 3D printed. Still waiting on getting my camera software sorted so I can update the plethora of blogs...!

Edited December 2, 2011 by S.A.C Martin

[the penguin of doom]

 

I believe the appropriate phrase here is "d'oh!"

 

 

 

I'll see what I can do Dave. I've cast two successfully and one badly thus far, and a few other bits and bobs I've had 3D printed. Still waiting on getting my camera software sorted so I can update the plethora of blogs...!

 

I'll be looking for 3 Bachmann ones in the new year too Simon. Erm, perhaps I could cross yer palm with silver too for a couple of bits for mine?

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[S.A.C Martin]

 

I'll be looking for 3 Bachmann ones in the new year too Simon. Erm, perhaps I could cross yer palm with silver too for a couple of bits for mine?

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

 

I wouldn't dream of taking a penny off either of you. If I can cast enough well, you can have them for nothing. It's all going towards the same aim, just a bit of resin at the end of the day. Once the camera's fixed, I'll send you both some pics and you can make your minds up on if it's suitable.

[the penguin of doom]

 

I wouldn't dream of taking a penny off either of you. If I can cast enough well, you can have them for nothing. It's all going towards the same aim, just a bit of resin at the end of the day. Once the camera's fixed, I'll send you both some pics and you can make your minds up on if it's suitable.

 

Excellent.

 

Cheers for that and very kind too.

 

Sean.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Here in the cut price basement, Mr Mean is going to buy whatever is cheapest. It is only a vkwwsubf Bongo, in the words of one Stratford old lag. I suspect the Hornby will carry the palm if they have maintained the standard seen on the Britannia, Castle, L1. The appearance of the running gear - as remarks above - was long a weakness with Hornby, but the more recent releases have seen them improve that very significantly, to good effect for a credible chassis.

 

For those wanting to fit sound, I don't expect the preserved specimens are capable of the awful knocks and clonks these crude devices could emit when nearing overhaul. Not that it ever seemed to dissuade the crews from husting them along to generally good effect mind.

[Dicky W]

Not sure if this pre-production model photo of the Hornby loco helps at all.

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Certainly looks like a Bongo. With a litle characteristic filth and rust wll 'come to life'. As many pictures will demonstrate there was often a lot of rust on the forward valve chest cover, anyone know the reason?

 

One good factor on the model worth mention, the glazing. Judging by the photograph this has the same 'bright, flat' glass like appearance as that in the L1, which is a major asset to the looks of that model.

[davidw]

Hmm looks really good!

 

Thanks Dicky. The Hattons Website has photo's of the Bachmann version

Edited December 2, 2011 by davidw

[coachmann]

As many pictures will demonstrate there was often a lot of rust on the forward valve chest cover, anyone know the reason?

Thrown up off the leading bogie wheels one presumes. That return crank is in a dodgy position. Hornby's past weakness has been chimneys, so keeping my fingers crossed.