Bachmann Midland Pullman

[robertcwp]

There is only one shared vehicle type between the Midland (2 unique vehicles, one shared) and Western (3 unique vehicles, one shared) forms. So that's three new vehicle types to research and tool up, essentially the same job as for the Midland version before us which has three vehicle types in it, and then the Western form is a bigger package = higher sale price than the Midland version.

The body of the trailer kitchen first of the 8-car sets was basically the same as the motor kitchen first in the six-car sets, though the underfloor detail would have been different. However, it's still a different unit so I can understand Bachmann's reluctance to commit to an 8-car version, which would also be more expensive as it's longer and possibly less likely to sell as well as fewer people will have layouts big enough for such a train.

 

However, some of us have layouts that could (just about) accommodate a 12-car set were Bachmann to do the 6-car version in modified form with jumper cables...

[robertcwp]

Arguably that livery did not exist as a "Midland Pullman", merely on the ex-Midland Pullman set in WR use?

Arguably not even in WR use in regular revenue-earning service.

 

The Robertson book goes through some of the possibilities the WR considered when they inherited the six-car sets, including reforming them by mixing in with the 8-car sets (as eventually happened in 1971).

 

One interesting point about the 12-car set once the units had some accommodation downgraded to second class was that the total seating accommodation was only 36 first class seats higher than an 8-car set, but much more expensive to staff and run.

[Colin_McLeod]

Given that I am not familiar with the details of either the Midland nor the Western version, I would be happy to supplement my pre ordered 6 car Midland set with two additional coaches to make up an 8 car set if Bachmann ever supply them separately.

[Rugd1022]

Arguably that livery did not exist as a "Midland Pullman", merely on the ex-Midland Pullman set in WR use?

 

Ian - in the Newbury photo I mentioned above, the 6-car unit with all over yellow ends still has 'Midland Pullman' intact on the power cars, although, as stated above it was a crew training run and not in public service. As Robert says also, the time frame for this version is very short, probably only a matter of eight weeks at the most.

 

I'd stake several white fivers on the crew in that Newbury pic being Old Oak men, with a morning run down the Berks & Hants to Westbury or possibly Taunton, then back home pronto. Very few WR drivers were ever trained on the BP and I'd imagine that this particular set of training runs lasted barely a week

 

Edit : going back to the Bachmann applied livery.... I've just dug out a scrapbook magazine clipping of a six car unit stabled on Bath Road Shed in colour, the power car of which has the 'normal' yellow end, but tellingly, the bufferbeam area, cab door, cab roof and the patch where the 'Midland' letterring was show what looks to be recently applied Nanking Blue, which itself stands out against the slightly faded blue on the rest of the bodywork... no number is visible but it's entirely possible that this is the same set in Kevin Robertson's Newbury photo of 1966, touched up at Swindon when the MW gear was also fitted.

 

Based on this photo, I've already decided how I'll be acquiring a bona fide WR set!

[Oldddudders]

This version seems to me - in view of the learned accounts above - to be the diesel equivalent of the Hornby loco-exchange version of 34006 Bude equipped with a Stanier tender. Historically accurate, but a curio rather than a credible addition to a modeller's stud. As I've said, the Bachmann model looks gorgeous - this livery does not in any scale from 1:1 down.

[PaulCheffus]

I spoke to Dennis Lovett today at Railfest the good news is that he said that the westernised version of the 6-car Pullman is a definite possibility if the initial ones sell well enough. The bad news is that there are no plans for the 8-car units as it would require too many new body toolings.

 

Hi

 

Oh no. I ordered the Nanking Blue one as I didn't like the Blue with Yellow ends and would have prefered the reversed livery. I wonder what chance there is of the reversed livery happening in N?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[The Stationmaster]

 

I'd stake several white fivers on the crew in that Newbury pic being Old Oak men, with a morning run down the Berks & Hants to Westbury or possibly Taunton, then back home pronto. Very few WR drivers were ever trained on the BP and I'd imagine that this particular set of training runs lasted barely a week

Nidge, I recall it was reported in "Modern Railways' at the time as being to Newbury and back.

[Rugd1022]

Nidge, I recall it was reported in "Modern Railways' at the time as being to Newbury and back.

 

Thanks for that Mike... which would have made it nice out and back early finish job, unless of course it did more than one training run per day (?).

 

(In the photo, the BP is running on the Down Through road at the west end of Newbury station, so I'm guessing it was going out far enough to crossover back onto the Up...)

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for that Mike... which would have made it nice out and back early finish job, unless of course it did more than one training run per day (?).

 

(In the photo, the BP is running on the Down Through road at the west end of Newbury station, so I'm guessing it was going out far enough to crossover back onto the Up...)

It reportedly did two return trips. That pic is, by the sound of it, one that originally appeared in 'Modern Railways' - possibly taken by Dave Canning?

[Rugd1022]

Credited to 'EC Paine Ltd' in Kevin's book Mike. At first I thought it was taken from Newbury West Box, but you can just make out the corner of the box in the left of the shot... looks like it's taken from the top of the retaining wall leading up to the road overbridge.

 

Dave Canning does mention the BP in one of his books and photographed it a few years later, a WR power car headed set in reverse corprate livery at the Racecourse on a special, which he dates as 1974. By his own admission though, he often got dates woefully wrong, not surprising really when you consider he was supposed to be busy working the signalboxes at the time!

 

Edited for not paying sufficient attention to the task in hand....! The Dave Canning shot I'm referring too appears a few pages on in Kevin's book.... although it's mis-identified as an ex-Midland unit when the power car is clearly a WR one!

 

2nd edit..! Another Dave Canning pic appears a few more pages along.... namely, an 8-car WR set in original livery heading west through Newbury, allegedly taken in 1966.... I really should think before I hit the 'send' button!

[robertcwp]

This version seems to me - in view of the learned accounts above - to be the diesel equivalent of the Hornby loco-exchange version of 34006 Bude equipped with a Stanier tender. Historically accurate, but a curio rather than a credible addition to a modeller's stud. As I've said, the Bachmann model looks gorgeous - this livery does not in any scale from 1:1 down.

That's a good comparison though Bude was arguably more useful as it did actually work some regular service trains with its Stanier tender, which is more than can be said for the blue and custard Pullman (though it's possible it might have stood in for an 8-car set in an emergency). The problem with Bachmann doing this Pullman variant is that it will end up like Hornby's Bude, ie it won't sell well and, more worryingly, as a result we might not see the jumper cables versions, which I think would sell well and would offer a choice of two liveries. I wonder how retailers who have ordered the blue & yellow one feel at the prospect of these arriving on their shelves. Possibly a bit expensive for the train set market. Anyone who knows anything about Blue Pullmans will probably give the custard one a wide berth.

[Rugd1022]

A good point Robert, it would be sad if this particular livery variant put people off and killed initial sales stone dead - perhaps it would be better if Bachmann held it back until later and released a MW fitted version first... however, I still think it's a fairly easy route to getting a usable Western Region set for those who don't mind knocking up the MW gubbins themselves, and touching up the yellow ends where it's needed (as I mentioned in post #179, this is what BR did on at least one power car during the conversion in late '66 / early '67). Not ideal for everyone I know, but still worth thinking about.

 

Whichever route you take, I look forward to seeing a snapshot of a 12-car set on Marton Central

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Please reassure me that this is just a joke and that Bachmann aren't really going to produce a "custard dip" Midland Pullman.

 

This is wrong on so many levels.....

[Karhedron]

As it is, picking the form that ran on both MR and WR was the wise course, no? This way there is something from the Blue Pullman family to run on WR.

I am inclined to agree. While we would all like our favourite incarnation of the BP in <insert favourite livery here>, we all know the realistic commercial decisions that have to be made. Bachmann's choice of the 6-car unit probably represents the broadest spread of appeal available in a single unit.

 

Would I prefer an 8-car WR unit? Yes I probably would but I would struggle to fit it on my layout so I am happy to accept the 6-car unit as a compromise. There is at least one shot of a Midland Pullman working on the WR in original condition before they got defaced with yellow ends. That is good enough for me.

 

On a separate note, it is probably in Bachmann's interest to deny the possibilty of an 8-car unit down the line. If they say it is possible, how many people would hold off the 6-car version in order to wait? They don't want to undermine their sales so the official line is that this is the only version they are producing.

[50A55B]

As well as the MU gear, didn't the lower nose end of the ex-Midland units get the cutaway to reveal the drawhook at the same time?

I don't recall seeing photos of MU fitted ones without this mod as well.

[robertcwp]

A good point Robert, it would be sad if this particular livery variant put people off and killed initial sales stone dead - perhaps it would be better if Bachmann held it back until later and released a MW fitted version first... however, I still think it's a fairly easy route to getting a usable Western Region set for those who don't mind knocking up the MW gubbins themselves, and touching up the yellow ends where it's needed (as I mentioned in post #179, this is what BR did on at least one power car during the conversion in late '66 / early '67). Not ideal for everyone I know, but still worth thinking about.

 

Whichever route you take, I look forward to seeing a snapshot of a 12-car set on Marton Central

 

I have checked and line 6 in my fiddleyard will acommodate a 12-car set. But blue/white or grey/blue (assuming that both appear eventually)? I might have to have both, but that would be a ridiculous extravagence. The two sets were overhauled and repainted in rapid succession so I doubt that they would have run with one 6-car set in each livery for long, if at all.

 

The other thing BR did was paint out the 'Midland' - I have seen a photo of one of the sets where you can see clearly where that word had been.

 

To answer a question in another post, the buffer beam cut-out was done when the sets were MU-fitted.

 

Here is a view of the end of one of the ex-6-car power cars, by then in an 8-car set. This is, incidentally, the last down morning South Wales Pullman - this set worked the farewell trip the following day:

BluePull_0900-Padd-Swan_Padd-plat2_4-5-73 by robertcwp, on Flickr

[robertcwp]

I am inclined to agree. While we would all like our favourite incarnation of the BP in <insert favourite livery here>, we all know the realistic commercial decisions that have to be made. Bachmann's choice of the 6-car unit probably represents the broadest spread of appeal available in a single unit.

 

Would I prefer an 8-car WR unit? Yes I probably would but I would struggle to fit it on my layout so I am happy to accept the 6-car unit as a compromise. There is at least one shot of a Midland Pullman working on the WR in original condition before they got defaced with yellow ends. That is good enough for me.

 

On a separate note, it is probably in Bachmann's interest to deny the possibilty of an 8-car unit down the line. If they say it is possible, how many people would hold off the 6-car version in order to wait? They don't want to undermine their sales so the official line is that this is the only version they are producing.

I agree too - the 6-car is the sensible choice. As for original livery on the WR, more likely to be a test, driver training or special (or an emergency stand-in) than a regular working.

[Rugd1022]

Which livery indeed Robert - a difficult choice I know, I like them both but will plump for the blue / grey with yellow ends first. Hopefully, by the time Bachmann release the reverse grey / blue version I'll have bunged in enough rest days to pay for one.

 

I have a cutting somewhere of the Traffic Report from Railway World on that last day special in '73... I seem to recall it had to make a special stop to let off an old boy who'd got on it by mistake!

[robertcwp]

Page 123 of the Robertson book has the same photo as appeared in January 1967 Modern Railways showing a 6-car set still with 'Midland Pullman' branding passing through Newbury on a crew training run on 8 November 1966. This shows the custard pie end. However, the livery style carried by the power car at the other end is not visible.

 

Page 124 shows M60090 dated 4 July 1966 at Swindon with a yellow end wrapping round onto the cab side but not as far as the cab door.

 

M60093 is shown on page 63 of the supplement with the custard pie end. However, the opposite end of the set was photographed at the same time (at Old Oak Common) on 8 November 1966 and shows a different style on M60092. On this one, the yellow is a kind of 'apron' on the front and not wrapping round onto the side of the cab. I have seen a colour photo of this vehicle which shows that the cab window surrounds were also yellow.

 

This all begs the question as to which style M60091 carried and whether any individual cars had more than one style. The OOC photos and accompanying captions certainly suggest that the power car at the opposite end to M60093 did not have the custard pie end, which also suggests that M60093 might have been the only vehicle to carry that style.

 

Incidentally, I have only quoted specific vehicle numbers where these are clearly readable in the photos.

[Karhedron]

Looks more appealing to me but I am getting the original version anyway. Is there time to ask Bachmann to change the livery before it ships? How many requests would they have to get before they would consider it?

 

More realistically, will Railmatch Nanking Blue match the Bachmann finish?

[Michael Delamar]

would be easier to paint yellow over a plain blue one than try and match the blue to one with a yellow end I reckon.

[Rugd1022]

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

 

Better version for Bachmann to try?

 

It's doubtful it ever left the confines of the Works wearing that livery variation, it was an experiment carried out on that end only... there's a photo somewhere of the power car at the other end without any yellow applied at all.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Don't know why Bachmann are trying to spoil the ship for a ha'peth of tar.

 

Just need to produce:

• Original (and best) Midland Pullman Nanking Blue
  
• Nanking Blue with yellow ends and MW connections
  
• Rail Grey/Blue with yellow ends with MW connections
  

What's difficult about that? Obscure front-end varieties? No thanks.

[robertcwp]

It's doubtful it ever left the confines of the Works wearing that livery variation, it was an experiment carried out on that end only... there's a photo somewhere of the power car at the other end without any yellow applied at all.

This is the same style as illustrated on M60092 at Old Oak Common on 8 November 1966 in the Robertson supplement (see my posting above). The other end of the set at Swindon in July 1966 is shown here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tiptree-jon/6336924263/

 

It could well be that this is the car that received the custard pie treatment later in 1967.

[Karhedron]

They are just trying to squeeze 2 livery variations out of a single tooling. I can't blame them for that as this is an expensive unit to tool and will retail accordingly. They need to maximise their sales and a yellow-end variant will help. It may not be the one everyone wants but I am sure it will sell to some.