RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2015 Social history. An Argos catalogue from 1900 would make for fascinating reading. Somebody has to save some Agreed, and that is the problem with the current view of magazines and the like, where many scan & destroy - admittedly because they can't be given away, let alone sold. Or if subscribed electronically, the subs must be continuously paid, otherwise gone forever. Most publishers don't allow for them to be downloaded & saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Social history.An Argos catalogue from 1900 would make for fascinating reading.Somebody has to save some Can't remember which comedian it was who said that Argos was "a library for chavs". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Agreed, and that is the problem with the current view of magazines and the like, where many scan & destroy - admittedly because they can't be given away, let alone sold. Or if subscribed electronically, the subs must be continuously paid, otherwise gone forever. Most publishers don't allow for them to be downloaded & saved. It was one of the things I liked when I subscribed to Linux Format a while back, subscribers got access to all past issues(where available) in .pdf format to download, drm free. If only the BRM/Hornby/MR et al mags offered that. But its all drm as long as you're paying, though iirc on google play magazines when bought via subscription stay with the google account at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Can't remember which comedian it was who said that Argos was "a library for chavs". I liked Bill Bailey's description of the catalogue as "The laminated book of dreams" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I liked Bill Bailey's description of the catalogue as "The laminated book of dreams" . Laminated to catch the tears of joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2015 Agreed, and that is the problem with the current view of magazines and the like, where many scan & destroy - admittedly because they can't be given away, let alone sold. Or if subscribed electronically, the subs must be continuously paid, otherwise gone forever. Most publishers don't allow for them to be downloaded & saved. The reason I do not and will not ever subscribe to an electronic magazine. Heavens forbid they become electronic only. This generation is heading for an archival desert where nothing is kept. History will be lost. The 21st century will become another "Dark Age" Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2015 The reason I do not and will not ever subscribe to an electronic magazine. Heavens forbid they become electronic only. This generation is heading for an archival desert where nothing is kept. History will be lost. The 21st century will become another "Dark Age" Keith Lots of truth in that Keith - alas. We are already in age where various sorts of past electronic records have become obsolete because the kit to retrieve/display them has been replaced by a later sooper dooper idea. Thus floppy discs (both sizes) have largely gone the way of all good things and we need is some bright spark to develop a cheaper faster universal replacement for USB connections and we'll all be looking miserable. Paper does, especially if well looked after, have the advantage of durability and all I need to do to consult - for example - a 100 year old Rule Book is take it off the shelf and open it; I can't do anything with a 5.25" floppy disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2015 I can't do anything with a 5.25" floppy disc. Fortunately, although obsolete they can still be found and hooked up to adaptors, so not quite lost completely. Also there are still plenty of PCs with floppy interfaces around as well, even if not used. How long that will last is another matter! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altone Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 The reason I do not and will not ever subscribe to an electronic magazine. Heavens forbid they become electronic only. This generation is heading for an archival desert where nothing is kept. History will be lost. The 21st century will become another "Dark Age" Keith You know I've been in the computer industry for over 3 decades, but I completely agree with you. I'll never subscribe (pay) for an emag that doesn't at least let me grab a pdf version of it. The internet is so volatile that great resources come and go on a regular basis. I'm sure many here have clicked a link in the forums only to get a 404 error. Anything I've found useful, be it from the net or newspaper/magazine I usually make a personal digital copy of. Copyrite can go to you know where if they think that's a breach - send the lawyers and sue me for everything the bank owns. Just like preserving locos and rolling stock, we need a good method to preserve information. Anyway, back on topic - who would pay this for a damaged loco? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/151590168965?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2015 Lots of truth in that Keith - alas. We are already in age where various sorts of past electronic records have become obsolete because the kit to retrieve/display them has been replaced by a later sooper dooper idea. Thus floppy discs (both sizes) have largely gone the way of all good things and we need is some bright spark to develop a cheaper faster universal replacement for USB connections and we'll all be looking miserable. Paper does, especially if well looked after, have the advantage of durability and all I need to do to consult - for example - a 100 year old Rule Book is take it off the shelf and open it; I can't do anything with a 5.25" floppy disc. A classic example of what almost happened here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11_missing_tapes How can something so important be lost because of a shortage of data storage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2015 Fortunately, although obsolete they can still be found and hooked up to adaptors, so not quite lost completely. Also there are still plenty of PCs with floppy interfaces around as well, even if not used. How long that will last is another matter! Keith Not so sure about that. Last time I tried a batch of HD 1.4M 3.5 floppies, about half of them couldn't be read, in different drives. A couple were able to be opened & I put them aside for actual copying. When I went to do so, just a few days later, they wouldn't open! I wonder if the fact they were double density 720k with an extra hole drilled in the case had anything to do with that? Didn't we all try that and it appeared to work!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted February 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2015 A classic example of what almost happened here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11_missing_tapes How can something so important be lost because of a shortage of data storage? Data storage hasn't always been cheap. A couple of examples from the 70's: a/ The BBC wiped an awful lot of early colour programmes to re-use the tapes (approx £100 per tape at the time IIRC) because they were under pressure to cut costs. (Plus ca change) b/ British Airways for whom I was working at the time. The IT dept asked the commercial side if they really wanted to keep customer name data along with departure control data from airport checkin as the volumes were huge. It's inconceivable now that any company would not want customer info but back then data storage was relatively expensive, it was all b#ms-on-seats and BA (and most other companies) didn't track customers individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimHearne Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Not so sure about that. Last time I tried a batch of HD 1.4M 3.5 floppies, about half of them couldn't be read, in different drives. A couple were able to be opened & I put them aside for actual copying. When I went to do so, just a few days later, they wouldn't open! I wonder if the fact they were double density 720k with an extra hole drilled in the case had anything to do with that? Didn't we all try that and it appeared to work!!! Unfortunately, it seems floppy disks are rather prone to grow a sort of mould if they are left for a long time, especially if in a slightly damp atmosphere like an attic. It seems to vary make to make, some are really bad, the mould actually breaks down the oxide on the surface of the disk. Other makes don't seem to suffer from it at all. If you put a disk with mould on it into a drive it will often rub some of the mould off onto the head and then the drive won't read anymore disks. Get enough on the drive head and it will start rubbing the oxide off the surface of other disks. A head cleaning disk may get the head clean again but put another mouldy disk in and you will start all over again. If you look at the surface of the disks carefully (slide back the metal cover on 3.5" disks) then you can often see the mould as light grey splodges on the surface of the disk. Rotate the disk carefully to check the whole surface on both sides before putting the disk in a drive. Last year i tried to recover data from over 100 5.25" floppy disks containing software for a rare Powertran Cortex computer from 1986 or so. They had been stored in a garage for many years. Most of the disks had mould to some degree. Some makes were so bad that as soon as the disk was put in a drive the oxide just pulled off the disk. I tried many ways of removing the mould, some of which would horrify computer engineers. In the end i managed to read about 70% of the disks completely, most of the data from maybe 20% more and the rest were unrecoverable. I also got through 3 5.25" floppy drives and had to clean the heads manually with cotton buds maybe a dozen times. On the plus side, i did discover how robust floppy disks and drives can be, the warnings about not touching the surface of the disk seem to be a bit of overkill compared to what i did to some of them. Jim Edited February 25, 2015 by JimHearne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted February 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2015 Just like preserving locos and rolling stock, we need a good method to preserve information. Anyway, back on topic - who would pay this for a damaged loco? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/151590168965?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649 Staying off topic, in academia they've thought of this: http://www.lockss.org/ (Lots of Copies Keeps Stuff Safe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 1245 Re old catalogues - Gamages https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gamages+catalogue&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=FtrsVIuiJ8ut7gaazYDQDQ&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1258&bih=736 Now that is a lot of pictures! It can be amazing how much a Gamages Catalogue can go for....but they ARE a mine of information about many toy and model ranges.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointstaken Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Now that is a lot of pictures! It can be amazing how much a Gamages Catalogue can go for....but they ARE a mine of information about many toy and model ranges.... Used to cost a shilling in old money (5p in today's money) but often studied for long hours in great detail in the 60s. Couldn't afford the prices, but great for dreaming ! Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2015 They had been stored in a garage for many years. Jim Says it all really. I am surprised you managed to salvage as much as you did! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleefy Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 "A good paint finish" - buffer beams the colour of his wife's lipstick while the rest of the loco is the colour of his dog's. What horrors must await the unwary on the side of the loco he daren't show, I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Laminated to catch the tears of joy. And the tears of sorrow when you didn't get what you wanted from it The reason I do not and will not ever subscribe to an electronic magazine. Heavens forbid they become electronic only. This generation is heading for an archival desert where nothing is kept. History will be lost. The 21st century will become another "Dark Age" Keith Sadly, the market for magazines is likely to continue to decline so more and more will go towards digital content over the next 5-10 years. That may well mean a lot of 'niche' magazines will go the way of the dodo or online only. Sadly DRM will rear its ugly head here as well, as even if they give you PDF copies, PDFs can have DRM which limits how long they can be written to, prevents printing and so on. Printing costs are likely to continue to rise, so I wonder how many years before we see magazines getting to the book price levels (ie approaching £8-10), at those prices they'd be unviable. Not so sure about that. Last time I tried a batch of HD 1.4M 3.5 floppies, about half of them couldn't be read, in different drives. A couple were able to be opened & I put them aside for actual copying. When I went to do so, just a few days later, they wouldn't open! I wonder if the fact they were double density 720k with an extra hole drilled in the case had anything to do with that? Didn't we all try that and it appeared to work!!! Sadly all magnetic storage mediums suffer this sort of thing. They're prone to as said in another comment mould, as well as stray magnetic fields etc wiping the data. Then thats before you get to the data formats being usable after that. We were promised optical mediums were limitless in their lifespan, but CD/DVDs both have the same problem with scratches and mould causing them to become coasters. Having duplicate copies is the only way to lessen that, and when combined with cloud storage can be pretty robust at least (as long as you don't limit to just one server/cloud provider of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 1096 I can confirm the videotape cost. When I was working at the BBC in the early seventies, 2" tape was costed at £1 a minute and reused whenever possible. Even domestic 1/4" audio tape cost pounds per reel back then. (Multiply by at least 10 for today's prices!). The videotape area was air conditioned, but it was for the benefit of the tape and VTR machines, not the staff. I could never understand the fuss over DAT and the risk of pirate copies. The tape was so expensive, that it was cheaper to buy the CD! (Not to mention the cost of the recorder.) I think Minidisc failed for the same reason. Originally Musicassettes were more expensive than the vinyl disc. Cheap issues were only available on vinyl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I could never understand the fuss over DAT and the risk of pirate copies. The tape was so expensive, that it was cheaper to buy the CD! (Not to mention the cost of the recorder.) I think Minidisc failed for the same reason. Originally Musicassettes were more expensive than the vinyl disc. Cheap issues were only available on vinyl. I think Minidisc failed due to the format wars type effect. CD was dominant by then and everyone had a CD player. That and Sony's licencing model and it using ATRACK (which itself required a licence fee to write/read) instead of writing directly to the medium. It was just never going to work in the consumer market, which meant the price never came down and by the time it did MP3 was king (rightly or wrongly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 It was one of the things I liked when I subscribed to Linux Format a while back, subscribers got access to all past issues(where available) in .pdf format to download, drm free. If only the BRM/Hornby/MR et al mags offered that. But its all drm as long as you're paying, though iirc on google play magazines when bought via subscription stay with the google account at least. There are publishers who keep things and make them available. The MOD once searched The Soldier magazine back issues for a named theme and came up with 80 odd references and put the articles on a CD for me. No reason it can't be done. Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted February 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2015 Oh dear. Where does one start with a critique of this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-track-layout-With-Trains-Acceseries-And-Tool-To-Carry-On-The-Project-/261792014126?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cf4051f2e 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Am I the only one that gets fed up with retailers advertising kits with just a photo of the built up wagon? Nowhere on the description does it say it is a kit (I asked to check..........) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAMBRIAN-C13-1-76-OO-SCALE-MERMAID-14-ton-SIDE-TIPPING-BALLAST-WAGON-/291391796525?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43d84df52d Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 While I am in a ranting mood here's another misleading one. Fans of the L&Y should spot something wrong straight away, shame the seller did not! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360997863260?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now