The Fall & Rise of the 60's ( was The End of the Tugs?)

[CovDriver]

can't say to much for a certain TOC in the midlands area but they get XX amount of millions for such lines to provide a service as it currently stands so the service frequency will stay as it is it's just the winter timetable thats starts in December !! not cuts as you put it !!!:mocking_mini:

[PhilH]

Hypothetical question - there's a sudden, dramatic upturn in freight business. DBS needs every prime mover it can muster. How many 60's would be able to answer that call, ie how many are still reasonably servicable?

 

If this has been answered earlier in the thread I've missed it so apologies for that.

[coachmann]

Funny thing is, I'd bet my house that the Deltics were treated with the same contempt when they ousted the Gresley pacifics.

Aye, true enough, but definitely not by the same people. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I had no time for diesels in the 1950s and still haven't today. They were merely camera-fodder and swelled my income from reproduction fees.

[rob D2]

It's good to see a few more 60s back , but they have had their day and I see 20 are up for sale by DBS now.

 

Not wishing to reignite the argument but I'll take issue with the idea that burkhardt liked any of the ex BR Traction as in the REX interview he had nothing at all good to say about any of them whatsoever.

 

I'm sure in 10 years or so we'll all be chasing the last 66/0s ! For all of their faults at least they look like a diesel, I imagine whatever comes next will have anti gravity propulsion and not need rails !

[Jim Martin]

Not wishing to reignite the argument but I'll take issue with the idea that burkhardt liked any of the ex BR Traction as in the REX interview he had nothing at all good to say about any of them whatsoever.

 

Didn't he say that he liked the idea of the 57, although ironically EWS never had any?

 

Jim

[Arpleymodeller]

True,you don't appreciate it until its gone!

 

 

About the earlier comment made by oakydoke,its not that there isn't enough freight to justify having so many locos like class 60 its that EWS lost so much business. In 1996 when it was formed it controlled virtually all freight to now where its market share is like 50%-60%.In 2008 it was even said that their market share had fallen to below 50%!.The rest being under the control of the other operators like DRS,Freightliner etc.

 

So what Im saying is that there is work out there its just not in the hands of EWS/DBS and as they own all 100 60s there is much less work.If they were operated by other operators then they would possibly be still operating.

 

One final point is that in 1996,EWS had all the coal business,these trains were worked by 60s and eventually 66s.Since Freightliners entry into general freight and the creation of FLHH (heavy haul)they have won a lot of the coal business and so this traffic which was hauled by 60s when in EWS control is now in Frieghtliner control using new 66s.Also most if not all EWS trains which have just a few wagons like those pictured are part of the Enerprise network and are known as 'trip services'.They use to be worked by 37s until EWS binned their fleet.Now worked by any power available,mostly 66s.

[Arpleymodeller]

DBS has 6 59/2s on its books,now these are 16 years old-not much younger than the 60s but are still in service.Well its known that EWS/DBS has a GM preference but I'm surprised that they haven't been stored before know as EWS binned all small 'non-standard' classes by mid 2004.Even they must be coming up for an overhaul.One other thing,it was said earlier that we will be soon chasing the remaining 66/0s,well there is one I bet will never work again,that's 66048 which has severe damage (not to mention internal damage caused when it shashed down an embankment)and a return to service would require rebuilding of its body work in some places.The first 66 spares donor methinks

[magic_monkey09]

The first 66 spares donor methinks

 

I doubt 66's need spares donors, They still make the class ableit a slightly later model. Probably a quick phone call to General Motors and the next thing you know the new part is in the post 59's are nearly as old as the Tugs but i expect that not only have they been well looked after and properly serviced but probably have less engine hours... I think they are serviced at Merehead by Mendip rail rather than by DBS themselves

[Oakydoke]

59's are nearly as old as the Tugs but i expect that not only have they been well looked after and properly serviced but probably have less engine hours...

They also have the benefit of being more reliable, less complex and requiring much less maintenance.

 

A simple analogy would be a car that had to be serviced and pulled apart every couple of thousand miles, compared with one that only required a service every 18,000 miles or once a year.

Make that a commercial vehicle, a delivery truck for example, and that difference has serious financial consequencies. No company would want its trucks in the workshop all the time, costing money and losing revenue.

Think of freight locos as delivery trucks and you can see why a loco that costs more time and money to keep running is a liability.

[Arpleymodeller]

More good news and again thanks to WNXX.com

60011 and 60071 have been reinstated,this brings the total operational 60 fleet to 13 examples.Good news,maybe more will follow B)

 

Regards

Lewis

[Oakydoke]

About the earlier comment made by oakydoke,its not that there isn't enough freight to justify having so many locos like class 60 its that EWS lost so much business.

I didn't say there wasn't enough freight, but I suggested there wasn't enough work for them.

 

So what Im saying is that there is work out there its just not in the hands of EWS/DBS and as they own all 100 60s there is much less work.

 

....in 1996,EWS had all the coal business,

...Since Freightliners entry into general freight and the creation of FLHH (heavy haul)they have won a lot of the coal business...

It's true that EWS (now DBS) lost a large chunk of the market to new competitors, including coal and other heavy haul work; but the market has also changed. The 60's were planned around the time when the UK coal industry was undergoing radical change, including the closure of most of the coal mines. By the time of their introduction there was far less work available for them and the 56's and 58's.

Todays requirements for heavy haul are quite different (including many new flows) and as you say, there are other companies vying for the work too.

[Arpleymodeller]

A good point,although pit closures from 1996 onwards were far fewer than the bloodbath of the 80s and early 90s!

[Oakydoke]

I agree , by 1996 the closures had mainly been completed, but it appears that in the mid 80's BR were planning for a future that was already not going to happen. Rather reminiscent of the 1950's I guess?

 

Meanwhile, back to the future...

[Richard E]

60049 berthed at Peterborough this morning.

[Clay Country]

I agree , by 1996 the closures had mainly been completed, but it appears that in the mid 80's BR were planning for a future that was already not going to happen. Rather reminiscent of the 1950's I guess?

 

Meanwhile, back to the future...

 

There was a genuine need in the mid 80s to replace obsolete traction - the use pairs of 20s on coal trains and pairs of 31s on oil trains clearly wasn't sustainable in the long term. But I don't think BR envisaged Trainload Freight being sold off, then losing half the railfreight market to competitors. It's difficult to factor in future political decisions when you're buying a loco designed for a 30 year life.

[Arpleymodeller]

60048 is out on tests from Crewe EMD,maybe this will be the 14th loco to rejoin the fleet.We will have to wait and see, B)

[Arpleymodeller]

Hi

 

60009,60010,60019,60048,60049,60063,60091 and 60096 have been reinstated.This means 17 60s are now in service,these are

 

60009

60010

60011

60013

60019

60039

60040

60048

60049

60059

60063

60071

60073

60074

60084

60091

60096

 

This is the highest number in service since early 2009 B) .

[Redkiterail]

60009 was at Didcot Parkway Yesterday next to a 66 with a new lower half yellow panel picture below:

[Arpleymodeller]

The yellow on the 66 is the same as all other examples but it is a lighter shade

[newbryford]

 

 

This is the highest number in service since early 2009 B) .

 

Is this related to the upcoming Sandite/RHTT duties that will use up a few 66's?? Thus the 60's are needed as cover.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[magic_monkey09]

The yellow on the 66 is the same as all other examples but it is a lighter shade

 

Im told the release handle for the knuckle coupler often swings against the front of the loco chipping the paint, Also this area recieves the odd dent here and there from shunting accidents, this one looking like its been touched up recently hence the lighter shade glad to see 009 back though! the more Tugs the better B)

[7013]

As I came up the stairs at Swindon on Saturday a Class 60 was charging through west bound with a huge train of Murco tankers, did not see the loco properly but it was named 'Robert.........' and was I believe in Railfreight ? livery, at least some tugs are giving us pleasure rather than the endless runs of 66's which are everywhere.

[Steadfast]

As I came up the stairs at Swindon on Saturday a Class 60 was charging through west bound with a huge train of Murco tankers, did not see the loco properly but it was named 'Robert.........' and was I believe in Railfreight ? livery, at least some tugs are giving us pleasure rather than the endless runs of 66's which are everywhere.

60013 Robert Boyle on 6B33 Theale - Robeston empties. Railfreight grey with yellow EWS sticker. This train is long, but not as long as the Westerleigh - Robeston Murco circuit that regularly loads to 28 tanks (even 29 last week), or some of the runs further north out of Lindsey. 36 tanks has been mentioned in the past IIRC

cheers

 

jo

[Arpleymodeller]

60054 is back in service,the total now stands at 18.I hope the fleet strength breaks the 20 barrier soon B)

[magic_monkey09]

18 Tugs back in service yet 59202 'Vale of Whitehorse' is still working the Murco's through newport every night