RMweb Gold Donw Posted August 27, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2013 Spot is a very odd name for a sheep Jeff. In some ways the Vent would be best in the middle i.e. not too close to either end. However modellers licence allows you to move it a bit for best effect. Is the backscene going to be just sky or will there be larger fells in the background. If the latter a sheep pen/fold could be where you have shown it. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmoorkid Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Jeff Fantastic progress - the walls and fells are looking superb, that green stuff really has brought the fell to life, looking forward to the Air Shaft, I was up at Blea Moor last Friday but didn't get past the Signal Box, (the Ribblehead to Chirk log train is an impressive sight over the viaduct though). I haven't bothered posting recently (too much else going on) but I've been tracking progress on this and on my new near neighbour's Bacup - both proving inspirational. The 4F looks great - the Skipton based ones were regulars on the line early to mid 60's but they seem to have had tender cabs I think for extra protection when working snow ploughs. Now autumn is fast approaching I'll be making more sensible contributions to the cause.... Simon (KK) Here's a photo I know all Lunesters like a nice S&C picture! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Hi Jeff, Nice to see the grass progressing, the fell is getting a lot more definition now it's not just a single colour. I like the idea of a sheepfold on the fell, but the one you pictured is quite big, which is fairly typical of ones you see in valleys. Up on the tops they tend to be smaller as they are intended for the sheep to shelter in when the weather gets interesting. Down in the valleys the profusion of walls would give them plenty of scope for finding shelter, high up on the open fells, there are few walls, and generally little natural shelter for them. Of course, these days the sheep are hard pressed to fit in them as they all tend to be full of walkers enjoying their lunches (and when the walker is only wearing a mankini, they wouldn't want to be near anyway!). Oh, and I agree, Spot is a silly name for a sheep. It is of course a name for a zebra. I'll get me coat... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelW Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Oh, and another thought - air vents could be quite close to the end of the tunnel, it all depends on where the easiest access to dig the tunnels could be found. I can think of a couple which are within two hundred yards of the tunnel mouth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted August 27, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) Blimey!!! I go into the bunker for an hour or so - yes, I've done a bit more walling (only another 90 hours to go!!) - and when I come back there's heaps of interesting stuff to read. Chris - I take your point about the air vent being in the line of views across the viaduct to the tunnel. I can shift it along, of course - as shown in this earlier view (taken on July 26): Is A or B preferable? Michael - point taken about the scale of the sheep shelter. I think some kind of derelict shack will go on top, a shelter near the stream. Peter - where do you want this photo taken from? I may have to do some clever contortions in order to get it!! Jeff Edited August 27, 2013 by Physicsman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted August 27, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2013 Peter - I hope these help! Jeff 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Thanks Jeff, that's what I had in mind. To me, the left hand side of the Fell stops around "A". That section is connected more with tha aquaduct end of the layout. Whereas the section labelled "B" seems to tie in more with the right hand (tunnel) end. I'd put the air vent around point "C". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted August 27, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2013 Thanks Peter. Your suggestion suits me fine and, as Chris mentioned, keeps the vent away from the immediate line-of-sight of the tunnel portal, as viewed across the viaduct. I'd also be happy to put it there because access is very easy - it's tricky getting into the fell above the portal! Right - now I'd better think how I'm going to make this and how big it should be. DAS clay around a plastic tube springs immediately to mind. No hurry....!! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Afternoon Guvnor, so by the speed of the progress this week can we assume that you are aiming for a Christmass 2013 finishing date or have I just woke up from a BAD DREAM The walls do set the hill apart from most layout that are in the mags today. once the cattle / sheep tracks are in and some rough scrub land it will be a stunner. Please keep the pics coming with or without human intervention. How about a ruin stone barn built to 3mm scale on the far hill near the corner? Bodgit, looking for trouble again That is a good idea Mister Bodgit! There was an article in one of the mags last year on just that sort of building using Das. I'll dig it out and post the issue number, etc. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Jeff The progress at the moment is nearly as fast as The Baron but has certainly added another dimension to the layout. As for the vent, you would normally find at least two (if I remember right) as they would also give six working faces when tunnelling. Duncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I think Duncan is onto something, Jeff - if you had a vent a little to the right of "A" and another at "C", you would be suggesting the lie of the tunnel under the fell. It's closer than they would have been in the real world, but you have to have selective compression anyway... they don't need to be huge, either - just a suggestion of what lies below. Look how subtle - and close together - these ones in Dover are: Cheers Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted August 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2013 Up VERY early today for some reason, so I thought I'd add my two-penneth on the vent. If you put it at either A or B, then it suggests straight away that the track curves under the hillside whereas if you put it in line with the tunnel mouth then it gives the impression that the railway carries on in a straight line. To me, both A and B look completely wrong, sorry. I wouldn't worry too much about filling the hills with features as the real fells are featureless for miles on end and the fell itself, (along with the fantastic walling) is a feature that makes a fantastic backdrop to the viaduct, etc. Less is more here Jeff, forget the vent is my vote. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted August 28, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2013 Up VERY early today for some reason, so I thought I'd add my two-penneth on the vent. If you put it at either A or B, then it suggests straight away that the track curves under the hillside whereas if you put it in line with the tunnel mouth then it gives the impression that the railway carries on in a straight line. To me, both A and B look completely wrong, sorry. I wouldn't worry too much about filling the hills with features as the real fells are featureless for miles on end and the fell itself, (along with the fantastic walling) is a feature that makes a fantastic backdrop to the viaduct, etc. Less is more here Jeff, forget the vent is my vote. Morning Jason. I'm up very early too - the usual broken 4-5 hours sleep is my excuse. So if I can't sleep I may as well do something useful. A quick look on here, coffee and out to get some more walling done! The line of the tunnel was on my mind too. The only advantage of having one vent is that it is a unique feature when it comes to S&C models - I've not seen one elsewhere and, if it hadn't been for Simon, I'd never have thought to include it. Looking at Scott's pic, the vent need only be about 6cm tall and 3cm wide. Bearing in mind the line, I'd put it 30cm to the right of C on the photo that Peter annotated. The "less is more" philosophy is often the best. I'll see what it looks like with another couple of sections of walling before adding a vent. After all, it'll not take long to make, can just sit on top of the Fell and if it looks stupid it can be binned!! Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Morning Jeff, Yes I am up early, well I am not actually up yet, SWMBO has gone down to see to the Dog and I am sitting up in bed playing with my Flip Flop whoops sorry Lap Top , I have been doing some bits for Sight and Sound, our club newsletter which I have to get out next week and also adding a bit to my Crammore Bridge thread. It has also taken me an age to catch up on last nights ramblings as I was UP THE DUFF sorry again, its early morning, fingers and brain not in gear yet , that should read CLUB of course. The hole thingy is causing some debate, I think Jason is deffinately right about Less is More but I think if you were to do the Vent and a small derilict hut in stone, BOTH to 3mm scale it would give the forced perspective and also just some interest without over doing the hill, after all you will have Julia and the sheep up there, hahaaa Bodgit 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted August 28, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 28, 2013 That landscape book Jeff, "Modelling Grassland and Landscape Detailing" by Gordon Gravet, Wild Swan Publications, pricey at nearly £25 but full of ideas and techniques. In some of the photos it's hard to tell which are real life and which are models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted August 28, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 28, 2013 Just to add my twopenn'th to the vent debate, why not make a rough mock-up or two out of card and see what they look like in various positions. it should help inform you as to whether you need one, two or none. I am with Jason btw, sometimes less is more. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Jeff Jonathans' idea would be worth a go. Very little effort but would provide you with the perspective and visual reference to make an informed choice. Duncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted August 28, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2013 Just to add my twopenn'th to the vent debate, why not make a rough mock-up or two out of card and see what they look like in various positions. it should help inform you as to whether you need one, two or none. I am with Jason btw, sometimes less is more. Jeff Jonathans' idea would be worth a go. Very little effort but would provide you with the perspective and visual reference to make an informed choice. Duncan As always, common sense suggestions - good ideas abound. Thanks very much lads. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted August 28, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2013 A bit more walling done this morning - more to be done shortly... Jeff 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Hello Jeff, Bodgit said have a look on your site, so l did, Jesus you don't hang about do you, the last time l dropped in you were doing the ballasting, what a transformation the hills look great, can really feel the wind blowing over them hills, l will have to drop in more often.... George 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted August 28, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2013 Hello Jeff, Bodgit said have a look on your site, so l did, Jesus you don't hang about do you, the last time l dropped in you were doing the ballasting, what a transformation the hills look great, can really feel the wind blowing over them hills, l will have to drop in more often.... George Cheers George. I sometimes get inspired and go berserk - I'm in one of those moods now. Surprisingly, it was the ballasting that kicked it off - a task usually loathed by modellers! I got plenty of chance to practise! Off to add to my stone walls now! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrkirtley800 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Hello Jeff. In full agreement with Jason. The line beyond the tunnel is not supposed to go to a fiddle yard then round through KL again. Presumably it goes to Skipton or Bradford etc etc. So why not give the tunnel an appearance of being straight by the siting of the vent. Here is a pic of a vent above Blea Moor Tunnel taken in 1966. Not a very good photo but I mainly used it and dozens of others, taken at the same time, in talks I gave to various bodies on the S&C. I have no idea of the size but it was much bigger than me and I am nearly six feet tall. Perhaps an estimate of about 10 to 12 feet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_1066 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Love the look of that hillside. Put me down for no vent. You want to give the impression the tunnels head off out of your wall not curve around and join up. If you really must have one put it in line or perhaps on the actual horizon in half relief since there is not a lot of space for one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted August 28, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2013 Thanks for all the contributions. I suppose the big eVENT is my decision NOT to go ahead with the vent. I agree that the siting gives a direct indication of the line of the tunnel. I used an aerosol can plastic top to represent the vent in line with the portal and it looks a bit daft so close to the portal itself. So, the vent has gone. Less work I suppose! However, the derelict shepherd's hut.... Bill, I think the article you were referring to was David Wright's in the August 2012 BRM. His method uses DAS - which I've plenty of - and I'll study the article with interest. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 So it's a non eVENT then Jeff. Gets coat (or rather T-shirt in this weather)..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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