Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Just back from seeing a Black Five steaming through Poole on a London - Weymouth train. Almost bowled by an EMU.....

[Physicsman]

So it's a non eVENT then Jeff.

 

Gets coat (or rather T-shirt in this weather).....

 

I deliberately avoided that play on words, Peter. Terrible humour....you'll have me climbing the (stone) walls!

 

Speaking of which, time to make some more DAS strips. And see if I can find the sheep.....Spot, where are you?

 

Jeff

Edited August 28, 2013 by Physicsman

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Good job you were a physics teacher then Jeff and I was never in charge of literacy in a school. Hold on though, one of those statements is incorrect.....

[Mythocentric]

Thanks for all the contributions.

 

I suppose the big eVENT is my decision NOT to go ahead with the vent. I agree that the siting gives a direct indication of the line of the tunnel. I used an aerosol can plastic top to represent the vent in line with the portal and it looks a bit daft so close to the portal itself.

 

So, the vent has gone. Less work I suppose! However, the derelict shepherd's hut.... Bill, I think the article you were referring to was David Wright's in the August 2012 BRM. His method uses DAS - which I've plenty of - and I'll study the article with interest.

 

Jeff

 

That's the one Jeff! Actually in two parts, August and September issues. Maybe too much for the fell side. As others have pointed out - less is more - but it would make for a nice model in the valley around the viaduct. Perhaps in relation to the pack horse bridge which would give it a reason for being there, also as a nice contrast to the viaduct and surrounds!

 

Bill

Edited August 28, 2013 by Mythocentric

[uax6]

Having had a couple of days away, I've come back to a very interesting debate over vents....

 

Firstly though I need to cover some other ground.

 

The grass is looking superb, and I look forward to the little damp areas with tuffs, and the sheep paths.

 

I hate the blue backdrop, not really sure why, but it really lets the whole creation down. I hate the way at the corners the colour doesn't match, I hate the way it doesn't blend nicely with the walls above and the colour is just tooooooo blue. I was thinking that a greyey colour would be much more convincing, and you would be able to blend it much easier with the fel, the lighting and the walls above. Somehow the blue looks toy-like, and if you do an overcast day you can have realistic puddles and damp stonework, and above all, you think of the hills and you think of dampness, and thats what you need!

 

With regard to the fell. I hope that the bit at the tunnel end is not going to have many walls? If you can make it open fell again it will look more convincing, and therefore you need very few at this end to make it look convincing.

 

With the vent  debate, I'm more inclinded to suggest that you do a small grassy mound with a circular depression in the centre of it to suggest that there was a working shaft here for the digging of the tunnel that was later filled in (as they often were). the distance that you have betwixt the portal and the backscene is so short that it would look daft.

 

Also I'm worried about your bothy, I hope that it doesn't make the place look to busy....

 

I'm dvd copying this week so if you pm me your address again Jeff I'll send you all that MR stuff (Don't panic the rest of you, I've not added any more to the archive yet!)

 

So to rant

 

Andy G

[Physicsman]

You're doing a lot more worrying than I am, Andy....

 

Sky: it's better than nothing, though it'll be changed to a gradation from very pale blue white at the bottom to bluey at the top when I get time and do all the boards. I'm crap at this kind of thing, so I'll have to make do.

 

Vent: No vents.

 

Bothy: There'll be a small dwelling up on the hillside - probably middle left as you look at the photo below. It'll be in a terrible state - more a shell and certainly uninhabited - hinting of what it used to be.

 

Walls: Very few - as they look nice but take hours and hours to build. See photo...

 

 

Sheep: Yes.

 

Tracks: Yes... when I've got the rest of the fell top down.

 

Darker areas: The fell will be almost as it is now but I'll get some tufts and fit them. I need to buy a static grass "gun" for elsewhere, so I'll also have a go with that - especially along the bottoms of the walls.

 

Jeff

Edited August 28, 2013 by Physicsman

[uax6]

Could you loose the center wall Jeff? I think it divides it up just too much?

 

I am a worrier, no wonder it takes me an age to get things done!

 

Andy G

[MichaelW]

Or lose the centre wall just on the top of the fell - there are more walls lower down, generally with a change of vegetation...

Edited August 28, 2013 by MichaelW

[Physicsman]

Could you loose the center wall Jeff? I think it divides it up just too much?

 

I am a worrier, no wonder it takes me an age to get things done!

 

Andy G

 

It's ok Andy - I value your input....

 

"Now, do I get out of bed, or do I stay in bed.... if I get out I might catch cold...if I stay in I'll get bed sores...." Lol....

 

Or lose the centre wall on the top of the fell - there are more walls lower down, generally with a change of vegetation...

 

Yes, Michael - I like that!! That would save me about 6 hours work!

 

Jeff

 

EDIT: Lads - give it a few hours and see how many contrasting views we get!

Edited August 28, 2013 by Physicsman

[uax6]

Oh I have to get out of bed, just to put more coal on the fire so that I won't get cold...... ;-}

 

Could you use some HBL for your longer tuffs of grass? Can you pva a bit of it on and then rip off when dry?

 

Andy G

[67A]

Hi Jeff,

 

That fell looks superb when seen full length, AndyG's comment on the blue is valid but I presume it was just temporary for effect. A friend of mine recently purchased a backscene for his layout which was a photograph, now I hear you say that you have seen some on the net and they are not suitable, well if you contact them direct they will compile whatever you want, his is absolutely brilliant and got masses of comments at the Leyland show a couple of weeks ago when it was its debut outing. The company is called ArtPrint and if you search on the web you'll find it no problem. Don't just look at the range on offer but give them a ring and tell them what you need. Hope this helps.

[MichaelW]

On that basis Jeff, you may need to add a couple more walls running up the hill to the one running along the fell.  Of course they could have been allowed to fall down...

[Physicsman]

Oh I have to get out of bed, just to put more coal on the fire so that I won't get cold...... ;-}

 

Could you use some HBL for your longer tuffs of grass? Can you pva a bit of it on and then rip off when dry?

 

Andy G

 

I've got 2 complete rolls of the stuff sat under the baseboard but I thought it was a bit coarse for the job. I'll carry out some tests....

 

Otherwise, I'll order some of these - I've used them before and they are good:

 

http://www.internationalmodels.net/acatalog/Original_Grast_Tufts__Long.html

 

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

On that basis Jeff, you may need to add a couple more walls running up the hill to the one running along the fell.  Of course they could have been allowed to fall down...

 

I had intended to include a bit of wall degradation and I've been so engrossed that I'd forgotten! (ermm....railway sleepers!)

 

Your comment about the walls lower down is spot on and I'd planned to do that.

 

Mike - thanks, I'll have a look at the site.

 

Jeff

[Kev_Lewis]

I used products from the miniNatur range extensively on my 4mm layout and can't recommend them enough.

[aberdare]

Hi Jeff

 

Just catching up again and things have moved on really quickly, it must be the fastest moving thread on here.

 

After reading through the comments I'm in the less is more camp for the top of the fells so I'm happy to see no vent - interesting feature though it is - and I don't think there should be a building or part thereof either. It' been a few years now that I walked around the fells but I seem to remember most things like that are lower down the slopes, may have to browse through all my old books and photos if I get time.

 

Michaels idea on the walls is also a good one, keep that top bit clear except for the rough grass and sheep.

 

All in all it is looking great though and I envy your progress, I'm still stuck in a low gear or is it reverse!!

 

The MiniNatur stuff is great, bit dear for me though which is why I am playing about with underlay, string and furry, hairy stuff acquired from the wife when she had to give up some of her hobbies.

 

Keep up the good work, it's all coming together really, really well.

 

Jim

 

Managed a longer post as the wife had to retire to bed early tonight and I could nick her laptop instead of struggling with the old one and a dongle, the latter of which bombs me out after a sentence or two.

[Donw]

You have a busy day and dodgy wifi connections when you come back ventgate has been and gone (pity but probably for the best).

 

The walls look great but don't overdo them and it would be nice if you could do a wall in need of repair some spots where part of the wall has fallen down. stones on the ground around a area of reduced height. Just the sort of spot where lambs play 'king of the castle'

Don

[Kingmoorkid]

Thanks for all the contributions.

 

I suppose the big eVENT is my decision NOT to go ahead with the vent. I agree that the siting gives a direct indication of the line of the tunnel. I used an aerosol can plastic top to represent the vent in line with the portal and it looks a bit daft so close to the portal itself.

 

So, the vent has gone. Less work I suppose! However, the derelict shepherd's hut.... Bill, I think the article you were referring to was David Wright's in the August 2012 BRM. His method uses DAS - which I've plenty of - and I'll study the article with interest.

 

Jeff

 

 

Jeff

 

I know I kicked the vent idea off but having looked at the pictures I'm in the no Vent camp as well now - I don't think it would look like it was in the right place in relation to the tunnel mouth.  

 

Good decision.  Get some walls up that hillside. 

 

Simon  

[robmcg]

my two pennyworth... no vent, no blue in background.

 

A heavily weathered ex-WD 2-8-0 arrived here yesterday, finally I will replace that blue A3...

 

 

Rob

Edited August 28, 2013 by robmcg

[Physicsman]

I used products from the miniNatur range extensively on my 4mm layout and can't recommend them enough.

 

Glad somebody else rates them. Not cheap but very effective.

 

Jeff

[ChrisN]

Jeff,

The question that I did not ask yesterday but someone else did, and it may be answered by the blue backscene, is your top of the fell the top of the fell or does the fell go higher off scene?

 

I assume, and as I said yesterday I am no expert on Cumbrian fells, that the higher you go the less there is.  Did Cumbrian shepherds stay out with their flocks in the summer, or did they like welsh shepherds send them out and not worry until autumn?  Looks like we need a session in social history, followed by a class in building stone houses.

 

In the end, if as you sit at your control panel you would like to see a ruined bothy nestling below the top of the fell in a dip then build it. 

[Physicsman]

Jim and Don.

 

I'll remember to do a bit of wall reduction and degradation over the next day or two. Quite like the idea.

 

Thanks for the structural advice. Looks like the small bothy is moving down to the valley floor. A small sheep "corral" will go on top of the Fell - it'll only be 10cm across at max.

 

This is my current way of thinking:

 

 

Re. grass tufting. Anybody got any suggestions using HBL - bear in mind I only want small clumps and they have to sit on top of the existing fell vegetation. All ideas welcome!!

 

Jeff

 

EDIT: The image is VINTAGE - the end of March!!!!!

Edited August 28, 2013 by Physicsman

[Kev_Lewis]

Glad somebody else rates them. Not cheap but very effective.

 

Jeff

 

You get what you pay for. And they're ridiculously easy to use.

[Physicsman]

Jeff,

The question that I did not ask yesterday but someone else did, and it may be answered by the blue backscene, is your top of the fell the top of the fell or does the fell go higher off scene?

 

I assume, and as I said yesterday I am no expert on Cumbrian fells, that the higher you go the less there is.  Did Cumbrian shepherds stay out with their flocks in the summer, or did they like welsh shepherds send them out and not worry until autumn?  Looks like we need a session in social history, followed by a class in building stone houses.

 

In the end, if as you sit at your control panel you would like to see a ruined bothy nestling below the top of the fell in a dip then build it. 

 

Good question....

 

In reality the fell would go higher. The top of this one is around 150 feet/50m above the valley bottom - not too high. HOWEVER, I want a plain sky background with a few clouds - I DON'T want any additional complication above the fell - clutter.... I hate it!

 

I think I'm happy to have a small sheep shelter on the top and a (formerly) human habitation down below. It also gives a justification for having the delightful (but challenging to build!) packhorse bridge across the stream.

 

Jeff

Edited August 28, 2013 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

Jeff

 

I know I kicked the vent idea off but having looked at the pictures I'm in the no Vent camp as well now - I don't think it would look like it was in the right place in relation to the tunnel mouth.  

 

Good decision.  Get some walls up that hillside. 

 

Simon  

 

Cheers Simon.

 

Must admit I was wondering if you'd be upset/insulted after all the efforts you've gone to with regard to the vent.

 

Well, it seems - after more hot air than has spewed from the structure - that the vent issue is behind us....

 

Forward to the next great adVENTure!!!!! (GROAN)

 

Jeff