Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[Physicsman]

I didn't know they'd invented ohms in 1957, Rob!! Lol! Mobile-homes, maybe.

 

You sound a right tearaway. I didn't start driving 'til 1976, but the films from the 50s and early 60s show very quiet roads. A 60s series - "Man in a Suitcase" - even shows the hero (McGill) driving round London - must be about 1966 - in his Hillman Imp, and the streets are relatively empty. Must have been great fun.

 

Now how is this relevant to railway modelling? I bet you're going to tell me that the Jaguar V8 and V12 were descended from research on the engines used in Warship-class diesel-hydraulics or Deltics... C'mon, humour me - I'm trying!(VERY)

 

Jeff

[robmcg]

Blimey Rob! You've just shown me how little I know about the A3s - I hadn't heard of most of those! You're right about Coronach - it was a recent Hornby release. And, as I've said before, I don't have a single A3 in my current loco roster.

 

I drive a modern Mini. My first car was a Mini - but not quite Issigonis vintage. I agree with your comments - they were fun to play around with. I used to hate changing the fan belt, though!

 

Anyway, 7am here - so it'll be about 5pm in NZ? Enjoy your tea, while I get started with some more switches. Layouts are like icebergs. You only see the top 10% - the rest is lurking underneath!!

 

Jeff

 

7am UK is 8PM NZ time courtesy our summer 'daylight saving'...

 

yes changing a fan belt on a BMC Mini was a challenge if the radiator was hot, and/or the lower radiator mounts were bent or the various set screws were rusty and filthy as they usually were... blimey you are making me nostalgic for the damn things!

[robmcg]

>>how is this relevant to railway modelling? I bet you're going to tell me that the Jaguar V8 and V12 were descended from research on the engines used in Warship-class diesel-hydraulics or Deltics... C'mon, humour me - I'm trying!(VERY) <<

 

Thread-drift is an art form in which I am considered highly, um, talented.

 

For me Jaguar lost the plot when they moved away from straight six engines... but even around 1980 they had stayed true to all the principles of British Design, whereby if an air-conditioning valve leaked in the dashboard the entire car had to be disassembled and reassembled.... shades of automatic gearbox Minis which were my specialty, with hand controls. Now there's a story.... <g>

 

Back to wiring Jeff...

[Physicsman]

Rob, there is a very active British OO group in Oz - I'm sure you are familiar with Scott (jukebox), Rick (Gwiwer), Peter (P.C.M) to name just three. Are you an oasis of OO in NZ? What period do you model - you're clearly a steamer man.

 

I must admit to having catholic tastes when it comes to locos, but KL is likely to be dominated by steam.

 

As for Minis... my first car from 1978-84. Great little beast - easy to maintain. 50bhp tops. Present Mini - 125bhp, great car - less character. Maybe the rust helped on the old models! Just like all those rusting hulks that the heritage lines have restored.

 

So it must be 11am in Wellington? Enjoy your lunch or late breakfast.

 

Apologies to Kirkby Luneside followers - we're getting a bit sidetracked here. Probably the result of solder fumes or all the painkillers I'm currently taking to mask a jaw infection!

 

Jeff

[The Stationmaster]

 

You sound a right tearaway. I didn't start driving 'til 1976, but the films from the 50s and early 60s show very quiet roads. A 60s series - "Man in a Suitcase" - even shows the hero (McGill) driving round London - must be about 1966 - in his Hillman Imp, and the streets are relatively empty. Must have been great fun.

 

Now how is this relevant to railway modelling? I bet you're going to tell me that the Jaguar V8 and V12 were descended from research on the engines used in Warship-class diesel-hydraulics or Deltics... C'mon, humour me - I'm trying!(VERY)

Jeff

Dead easy to relate it not only to railways but directly to diesel hydraulics Jeff. About 1967 I had an 'upright' Ford Popular - bodywork in nice condition (resprayed it using the spray gun attachment on the Electrolux vacuum cleaner, smashing eggshell finish achieved, just couldn't get the mix tight to produce gloss ). Anyway it was economical on petrol - 30ish mpg but it also did about 25-30 miles to a pint of oil, until one of the Fitters at Reading DD suggested using Hymek sump oil - immediate improvement as it was then doing about 100 miles per pint (and the oil was a lot cheaper;) ).

 

That carried for a few months until i was offered more for it than I had paid for it and it went to a local Postman who had one with advanced body rot but a good engine and he swapped the engine for the good one.

[Physicsman]

Excellent, Mike. Before we all wallow and drown in nostalgia, or would it be engine oil, I've sent you a PM on the topic of crossovers.

 

So, to bring today's proceedings to an on-topic close, Tuesday's targets are to modify the output wiring of the control panel (so one switch throws the pair of turnouts at a crossover) and set up a network of wires linking each turnout to the panel. If done, sort out the fiddle yard points arrangement (again, this time using Marcway, not Peco, points).

 

So plenty to be getting on with. Now if anyone else has railway-related car stories.........

 

Jeff

[MichaelW]

I shall shockingly drag the discussion back on topic and say:

 

That's a good looking control panel Jeff. I like the space you've created around the switches. Will you be adding much more to it? Or will it be for point control only?

 

Hope your underboard wiring goes safely tomorrow...

 

Edited to say - You got there first Jeff!

Edited November 13, 2012 by MichaelW

[robmcg]

Yes back on topic.... but I couldn't resist a look at the shed to see what is being prepared at Carlisle for the 'Thames Clyde'... oh dear it's one of them interloper Gresley machines! with a begrudging double chimney which Ivatt perfected 15 years before .... dear oh dear, it'll never equal a rebuilt Scot even if it does ride better...

 

edit; bloody 'ell it's got an A4 boiler, probably arrive 10 minutes early if certain drivers get hold of this one...

 

edit 2; note it has Carlisle Canal shedplate, bravo Hornby.

 

 

pic is a draft only better to come sometime after I have eaten and slept. ... done to Chopin Piano No.2 and other pleasant sounds

 

Edited November 13, 2012 by robmcg

[Physicsman]

I shall shockingly drag the discussion back on topic and say:

 

That's a good looking control panel Jeff. I like the space you've created around the switches. Will you be adding much more to it? Or will it be for point control only?

 

Hope your underboard wiring goes safely tomorrow...

 

Edited to say - You got there first Jeff!

 

It always happens like that!! Lol. "Great minds... (not fools seldom differ!)"...

 

The panel will only be for the points. There'll be 2 other little clusters, bottom right and bottom left, for fiddle yard points not yet fitted. I will add a switch for every turnout - so it looks the way the real thing does, but wire some of the switches to control a pair of points in a crossover. May seem a bit of a waste, but the switches are cheap and it only takes ten minutes to wire each one up.

 

Jeff

[Allegheny1600]

Evening all (or is that: morning?)

Some lovely wiring work there Jeff, as an electrical numpty - I do admire nice neat wiring!

Back off topic again, the only car related railway story I know is that there used to be quite a few cars running around in Derby in the late 70's/early 80's that were painted a particular shade of very slightly turquoise blue - something to do with the proximity of Derby Loco and Litchurch Lane carriage works I always thought!

Night, night all!

John E.

[Physicsman]

Another nice picture, Rob. Good old Coronach. I've just checked and see that Hornby do a model of the Rebuilt Scot, 46115 Scots Guardsman or 46117 Welsh Guardsman coming up in my search. Resplendent in their green livery. Good old LMS-based locos too! Do you have one "in stock"?

 

As for food and sleep: it's 3 in the morning, I can't sleep so it's time for (a very early) breakfast!

 

Jeff

[robmcg]

The individual point levers are an excellent way to do things.

 

I have several rebuilt Scots and Patriots by Hornby, 46140 'The King's Royal Rifle Corps' is a favorite, being weathered, also I have 46102 'Black Watch', both with 66A Polmadie shedplates, I'm not sure whether they frequented the Settle and Carlisle. The only Patriot to hand is weathered 'Bunsen' shedcode 12B Carlisle Upperby so that might have be useful for these trains... but one thing at a time...!

 

Also a Bachmann late BR unrebuilt Patriot 45543 with 10K shedcode , Midlands? Skipton? Acrington? I will have to google that one, might suit a fitted freight.

 

I hope your sore mouth is recovering.

 

 

 

In any event here is Coronach doing what Gresley might have enjoyed...

 

Rob

 

Edited November 13, 2012 by robmcg

[Joseph_Pestell]

I certainly agree Jeff that now you have put the switches in, you should not take any out which would ruin the appearance of the panel. But I can't agree about "it looking like the real thing".

 

In a modern box, the switches (latched push buttons with integral bulb usually) are indeed on the track diagram. But they are not at each point. They are on stretches of track and move all the necessary points and signals by way of route-setting ("entry-exit"). The sort of thing that Mike seems to have (very neat solution to use that moulded box with carrying handle).

 

In a more traditional box (e.g. Settle and Carlisle), there is nothing on the track diagram apart from lights (track circuits). All the switches are in the form of a bank of levers - even for the colourlight distants.

 

The way that you are doing it is the traditional way for model railways. It has the great advantage of being easier to use for new operators. But it does not look like the real thing.

[MichaelW]

It always happens like that!! Lol. "Great minds... (not fools seldom differ!)"...

 

The panel will only be for the points. There'll be 2 other little clusters, bottom right and bottom left, for fiddle yard points not yet fitted. I will add a switch for every turnout - so it looks the way the real thing does, but wire some of the switches to control a pair of points in a crossover. May seem a bit of a waste, but the switches are cheap and it only takes ten minutes to wire each one up.

 

I think we'll stick with the great minds. Though I have to say as an ex-research scientist I'm disappointed that you have so much space for adding additional 'features' but no desire to do so On the other hand having reformed myself as an engineer in industry I commend the plan to keep it simple!

 

Robmcg - those are very impressive images - where do the backgrounds come from?

[coachmann]

Some lovely wiring work there Jeff, as an electrical numpty - I do admire nice neat wiring!

 

I can only echo John E's words. My pacemaker nearly ran a bearing yesterday when I saw your control panel, as I had turned on the PC for a relaxing break after trying to get an Electrofrog Diamond working! Ah well, things are coming on swell Jeff...... Will you be having elecrically operated signals too?

[Physicsman]

I certainly agree Jeff that now you have put the switches in, you should not take any out which would ruin the appearance of the panel. But I can't agree about "it looking like the real thing".

 

In a modern box, the switches (latched push buttons with integral bulb usually) are indeed on the track diagram. But they are not at each point. They are on stretches of track and move all the necessary points and signals by way of route-setting ("entry-exit"). The sort of thing that Mike seems to have (very neat solution to use that moulded box with carrying handle).

 

In a more traditional box (e.g. Settle and Carlisle), there is nothing on the track diagram apart from lights (track circuits). All the switches are in the form of a bank of levers - even for the colourlight distants.

 

The way that you are doing it is the traditional way for model railways. It has the great advantage of being easier to use for new operators. But it does not look like the real thing.

 

Thanks Joseph. I agree with all your points. However, my use of words was too imprecise. What I meant was that the board, as it stands, looks like the real thing that is in front of me - ie. the model. Since it's there to help switch the model, it may as well look as close to what's on the boards as I can make it. Sorry, I didn't mean the real thing as in the prototype - of which I know very little.

 

Thanks for your last few sets of comments. They made me change a little bit of wiring for definite benefits.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

I think we'll stick with the great minds. Though I have to say as an ex-research scientist I'm disappointed that you have so much space for adding additional 'features' but no desire to do so On the other hand having reformed myself as an engineer in industry I commend the plan to keep it simple!

 

Robmcg - those are very impressive images - where do the backgrounds come from?

 

It would be easy to add lots of extra bits - and I'll certainly consider doing so at a later time. However, experience has taught me to work from the bottom up, so I'll get the basic system working, then add to it later. Yes, the "great minds" is preferable!!

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

I can only echo John E's words. My pacemaker nearly ran a bearing yesterday when I saw your control panel, as I had turned on the PC for a relaxing break after trying to get an Electrofrog Diamond working! Ah well, things are coming on swell Jeff...... Will you be having elecrically operated signals too?

 

Hi Larry. I decided to use plain old DC for control of the point blades, rather than spend a fortune on DCC decoders. Hence the panel you see. Now that Dapol have produced some nice LMS-related 4mm signals I'm planning to have those electrically controlled as well.

 

I'm just about to go and fit a load of metal curtain "eyes" to the bottom of the boards - very useful guides for underboard wiring. Hopefully have something permanently wired in the next couple of days.

 

Jeff

[jukebox]

*snip*.

 

Now that Dapol have produced some nice LMS-related 4mm signals I'm planning to have those electrically controlled as well.

*snip*

 

Jeff

 

Jeff - I'll give you a heads up: Richard at DCCconcepts is about to release some rather special "switches" that can be used for turnouts and/or signals (and just about anything else). I'm assuming they will be on display at the Gaugemaster stand at Warley - they are spectacularly good looking!

 

Scott

[Physicsman]

Thanks for that, Scott. Richard Johnson seems to be looking at the hobby from all angles. I'll not be fitting signals for a considerable time, so whatever he comes up with could well be relevant.

 

Since you seem to communicate with him on a regular basis, could you suggest something? The Cobalt motor package is an excellent little product - I now have 30 of them. But one thing about it really irks me! With my chubby fingers, fitting the tiny self-tapping screw that holds the actuator wire in place is a real pain. Surely there has to be a better design than at present?

 

Jeff

Edited November 13, 2012 by Physicsman

[beast66606]

I certainly agree Jeff that now you have put the switches in, you should not take any out which would ruin the appearance of the panel. But I can't agree about "it looking like the real thing".

 

In a modern box, the switches (latched push buttons with integral bulb usually) are indeed on the track diagram. But they are not at each point. They are on stretches of track and move all the necessary points and signals by way of route-setting ("entry-exit"). The sort of thing that Mike seems to have (very neat solution to use that moulded box with carrying handle).

 

There are numerous variations to these, OCS, IFS, switches on block shelves, switches for points, levers for signals, VDUs trackerballs etc.

ps - buttons on NX panels also have a pull.

 

The S&C way is very much lever frames as per

 

In a more traditional box (e.g. Settle and Carlisle), there is nothing on the track diagram apart from lights (track circuits). All the switches are in the form of a bank of levers - even for the colourlight distants.

 

Don't forget to file the top off the colour light distant switch, as it's a light pull (signalling pun there)

[Physicsman]

Don't forget to file the top off the colour light distant switch, as it's a light pull (signalling pun there)

 

Terrible humour, Dave! Keep working at it - I know it'll be a long drag before you reach an acceptable standard!!

 

Just got myself a copy of "Rails in the Fells" by David Jenkinson. I've heard a lot about it and a quick glance through shows it to be a superb book. Quite a few hours' reading ahead, methinks.

 

Jeff

Edited November 13, 2012 by Physicsman

[Andrew P]

Thanks for that, Scott. Richard Johnson seems to be looking at the hobby from all angles. I'll not be fitting signals for a considerable time, so whatever he comes up with could well be relevant.

 

Since you seem to communicate with him on a regular basis, could you suggest something? The Cobalt motor package is an excellent little product - I now have 30 of them. But one thing about it really irks me! With my chubby fingers, fitting the tiny self-tapping screw that holds the actuator wire in place is a real pain. Surely there has to be a better design than at present?

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff Re Chubby fingers, well mine arn't chubby they are just plain clumsey, and seem to have a mid of thier own, (almost drunk at times), so when I am doing fiddly jobs my soution is a tiny bit of Blue Tack on the screw head and it tends to be enough to hold the screw whilst getting it started in the thread.

 

Good luck with the rest of the wiring, and I think the control panel looks really good.

 

As for the pics above, well what a genius that man is, I will look at all my efforts with the camera in a totally different light from now on, (and then BURN THEM)hahahaheheee

 

Cheers Andy.

[Scott B]

Thanks for that, Scott. Richard Johnson seems to be looking at the hobby from all angles. I'll not be fitting signals for a considerable time, so whatever he comes up with could well be relevant.

 

Since you seem to communicate with him on a regular basis, could you suggest something? The Cobalt motor package is an excellent little product - I now have 30 of them. But one thing about it really irks me! With my chubby fingers, fitting the tiny self-tapping screw that holds the actuator wire in place is a real pain. Surely there has to be a better design than at present?

 

Jeff

Lightly magnetised screwdriver Jeff ;-)

 

Scott B

Edited November 13, 2012 by Scott B

[Physicsman]

Lightly magnetised screwdiver Jeff ;-)

 

Scott B

 

I always thought my screwdrivers were magnetised. Cheers Scott - I think it's more down to my lack of dexterity! I've just bought a new set of Draper mini-screwdrivers (which are magnetised), so we'll soon see what happens!

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff