Grantham - the Streamliner years

[LNER4479]

Well pointed out that man - the LNER (or BR(ER) to be exact) will not be forgotten. Canal shed and a depiction of the Waverley route (not to mention trains in from Newcastle and the Silloth branch) are all part of the plan. The sight of an A3 on Stanier stock, heading the 'Waverley' express from St Pancras, was routine in the 1950's (as indeed it would have been in the 1930's).

 

And who can resist these big beasties. A man's engine for a man's railway...

 

[jwealleans]

 

"You have a woman's name, my Lord......"

[jamie92208]

Well pointed out that man - the LNER (or BR(ER) to be exact) will not be forgotten. Canal shed and a depiction of the Waverley route (not to mention trains in from Newcastle and the Silloth branch) are all part of the plan. The sight of an A3 on Stanier stock, heading the 'Waverley' express from St Pancras, was routine in the 1950's (as indeed it would have been in the 1930's).

 

And who can resist these big beasties. A man's engine for a man's railway...

 

46249,46206.jpg

If you make it in 7mm there is a Finney Duchess waiting to be built which will be called City of Carlisle.

 

Jamie

[Barry O]

none of those namby pamby 3 cyclinder engines for expresses... proper engines with 4 cylinders ......

 

 

hat, coat, bye-bye!

[manna]

G'Day Gents

 

Carlisle, I remember, the other end of the Euston branch.

 

manna

[richard i]

There is already a model done in the BR era, so you will have to go earlier. Go pre grouping the number of liveries would have looked fantastic.

[Mallard60022]

There is already a model done in the BR era, so you will have to go earlier. Go pre grouping the number of liveries would have looked fantastic.

If you think that layout is good then wait a few years for this version as it will include many interesting, neighbouring areas. I hope that includes the Three Sheds.

Philth

[jamie92208]

If you think that layout is good then wait a few years for this version as it will include many interesting, neighbouring areas. I hope that includes the Three Sheds.

Philth

 

Only 3!!! and what about the works that built cranes as well as the industrial systems such as Carr's biscuit works.

 

Jamie

[gr.king]

proper engines with 4 cylinders ......

 

 

hat, coat, bye-bye!

 

The LNER had tried those

https://www.lner.info/locos/B/b3.php

and wasn't impressed.

[LNER4479]

There is already a model done in the BR era, so you will have to go earlier. Go pre grouping the number of liveries would have looked fantastic.

'Tis undeniable that the kaleidoscope of colours that the railway enthusiast of 1913 would behold is very attractive - perhaps the greatest mix of pre-grouping liveries to be found in any one place in the British Isles? (Ooh - there's a challenge).

 

Unfortunately, the romantic in me gets trumped by the pragmatic every time - where's the stock coming from?

 

Thinking about it over night, despite the noble efforts of the RTR guys in recent years where is the RTR LNWR, Midland Railway, Caledonian, NBR rolling stock? Most of the recent offerings have been more ... ahem ... southerly companies with the likes of GER, LSWR, SECR, GCR getting some coverage. All great stuff if you're modelling those sort of companies. There are one or two locos I could use (Midland Compound, LNWR 0-8-0) but then think about all the coaching stock needed (WCJS 12-wheelers anyone? Midland clerestories?), not to mention the goods stock ('cos if I don't mention it, Jonathan will!) and it just becomes utterly overwhelming.

 

No - 1950's it shall be. Having one or two 'funny trains' to come out for a play on occasions will be the best I can hope for.

 

Only two sheds I'm afraid (Upperby and Canal). Just couldn't fit Kingmoor in and do it justice. Less is more. I think we can run to a private siding or two though...

 

Anyhow, I ought to be getting on with that Quint set, oughten I?

[jamie92208]

'Tis undeniable that the kaleidoscope of colours that the railway enthusiast of 1913 would behold is very attractive - perhaps the greatest mix of pre-grouping liveries to be found in any one place in the British Isles? (Ooh - there's a challenge).

 

Unfortunately, the romantic in me gets trumped by the pragmatic every time - where's the stock coming from?

 

Thinking about it over night, despite the noble efforts of the RTR guys in recent years where is the RTR LNWR, Midland Railway, Caledonian, NBR rolling stock? Most of the recent offerings have been more ... ahem ... southerly companies with the likes of GER, LSWR, SECR, GCR getting some coverage. All great stuff if you're modelling those sort of companies. There are one or two locos I could use (Midland Compound, LNWR 0-8-0) but then think about all the coaching stock needed (WCJS 12-wheelers anyone? Midland clerestories?), not to mention the goods stock ('cos if I don't mention it, Jonathan will!) and it just becomes utterly overwhelming.

 

No - 1950's it shall be. Having one or two 'funny trains' to come out for a play on occasions will be the best I can hope for.

 

Only two sheds I'm afraid (Upperby and Canal). Just couldn't fit Kingmoor in and do it justice. Less is more. I think we can run to a private siding or two though...

 

Anyhow, I ought to be getting on with that Quint set, oughten I?

I've just found a 120 negative of the fireless loco at Carr's that I drove one afternoon in 66 whilst I was on a 7 day North West Rover price £1.2s 6d. A friend of my Mum's was a manger at Carr's and I spent a very happy afternoon playing there. The next morning a friend of hers who was shedmaster at Kingmoor gave me a guided tour of the shed. A very happy time for a 13 yr old who was allowed to roam on his own for a week. I look forward to seeing the thread and a track plan.

 

Jamie

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I think you should model it post 72... lots of lovely banger blue ac electrics, double headed class 50s...

 

I shall leave the room as soon as I can find my hat and coat

[LNER4479]

I think you should model it post 72... lots of lovely banger blue ac electrics, double headed class 50s...

 

I shall leave the room as soon as I can find my hat and coat

... and close the door behind you as you leave for good measure!

 

Get thee hence with thy smelly / wire-scraping boxes on wheels. We only deal with nice simple, Stephensonian atmosphere pollutants round these parts

[ikks]

... and close the door behind you as you leave for good measure!

 

Get thee hence with thy smelly / wire-scraping boxes on wheels. We only deal with nice simple, Stephensonian atmosphere pollutants round these parts

I watched your layout  Grantham progress from afar and having visited there in the fifties/early sixties ...what an incredible place to watch trains, often thought what could this man and his group do with the LMR now it seems we are to see......I am so looking forward to this.

 

Rgds..Mike

[Mallard60022]

Only 3!!! and what about the works that built cranes as well as the industrial systems such as Carr's biscuit works.

 

Jamie

Oh sorry. Not being local in any way I did not know about that.

Phil

[jamie92208]

Oh sorry. Not being local in any way I did not know about that.

Phil

I don't know how many other private sidings there were but Cowans Sheldon certainly had one that was in use well into the 60's and possibly 70's. Carrs Biscuits got supplies of flour in and sent product out, almost certainly some was MOD traffic as they supplied survival biscuits. The Biscuit works are next door to the brewery, which in those days was Carlisle State brewery and may have had it's own siding. I think they were both close to Canal shed but as I was only 9 months old when we left Carlisle maybe my lack of knowledge can be excused. However I do know that I got well inoculated with West Coast power as my father's trainspotting diary records several trips to the lineside north of Citadel with me in the pram.

 

Jamie

[drmditch]

G'Day Gents

 

Carlisle, I remember, the other end of the Euston branch.

 

manna

Excuse me, don't you mean the western end of the N&C - which was the first cross-country (as in tidewater to tidewater) railway in the UK to open?

 

Of course, Citadel station did come a bit later, and then one could see the Waverley route and the S&C as a bit of an afterthought, but surely no-one could claim Carlisle entirely for the West Coast.

 

I do think it's a shame though that you are moving away from the 1930s. (Ignoring the trade depression, mass-unemployment, political instability, and the rising threat of war.). After all, 1938 would give

you a Flamingo, an ocean of Atlantics, an opportunity to go Hunting in the Shires, mot to mention the surviving blackberry-black engines, and at least two other types of three-cylinder engines before

you got onto the the (admittedly magnificent) four-cylinder Pacifics.

 

Isn't all that a lot to forgo just to have the benefit of a Britannia or two, some wild Clans, and (and I agree this might hurt a bit) some 9Fs?

 

And to compensate you could have a whole train of Newcastle-built Black 5s without their coupling rods being hauled by a Q6! Think about the saving in motors and gearboxes that would make!

 

Pre-1923 might have attractions, black, red, two greens, some brown, and rather splendid blue ones. But I do agree that having to have a Claughton (or perhaps by then a Hughes 4-6-0) as the largest engine might be quite a loss.

You'll just have to run some preserved stock!

Edited August 15, 2017 by drmditch

[Barry O]

... and close the door behind you as you leave for good measure!

 

Get thee hence with thy smelly / wire-scraping boxes on wheels. We only deal with nice simple, Stephensonian atmosphere pollutants round these parts

so that includes Metro-Vick Co-Bos..... hat, coat, start the tuk-tuk!

 

Baz

[gr.king]

Met-Vick Co-Bos are on my "approved" list purely because of quirkiness!

[Mallard60022]

I don't know how many other private sidings there were but Cowans Sheldon certainly had one that was in use well into the 60's and possibly 70's. Carrs Biscuits got supplies of flour in and sent product out, almost certainly some was MOD traffic as they supplied survival biscuits. The Biscuit works are next door to the brewery, which in those days was Carlisle State brewery and may have had it's own siding. I think they were both close to Canal shed but as I was only 9 months old when we left Carlisle maybe my lack of knowledge can be excused. However I do know that I got well inoculated with West Coast power as my father's trainspotting diary records several trips to the lineside north of Citadel with me in the pram.

 

Jamie

Fancy not clocking the Cowans Sheldon place, especially as I have admired Cranes from that very place many time. Even the 72A BD Crane was one of theirs I believe.

Phil

[Michael Edge]

You wouldn't see much on Citadel station with the original roof in place, we're not sure we can put the present one on in any form as even this version measures 7ft by 3ft and would need to be removable for maintenance.

[St Enodoc]

Fancy not clocking the Cowans Sheldon place, especially as I have admired Cranes from that very place many time. Even the 72A BD Crane was one of theirs I believe.

Phil

The Cowans 50-tonner at Haymarket was the best crane I ever worked with, largely because it had six spreader beams not four, which meant that it could be used in some very awkward places.

[The Blue Streak]

Met-Vick Co-Bos are on my "approved" list purely because of quirkiness!

 

Were they the ones with the Crossley 2 stroke v8 ?

 

Met Vick  sold some of their "Quirky" locos to the West Oz Govt Railways in the mid 50's.

The WAGR X class which had a 2-do-2 (leading bogie - 8 rigid centre driving wheels - trailing bogie) wheel arrangement also had the Crossley 2 stroke and Exhaust Pulse Pressure Charging (try saying that after a few pints).

 

Quirky isn't the quite word many of us used when describing them.

 

They were a nightmare of a thing that spewed forth oil like it was going out of fashion and had a tendency to leap off the track at any given moment. The WAGR nearly gave up on them (I'm quite sure the Irish re motored their versions) but after 25 or so years and by detuning the V8 from 1200 to 900 horsepower then redesigning most of the rest of it, they ended up reasonably useful, just in time to be withdrawn !!!

 

Funny thing is, I'm quite fond of them now (probably because they are retired )

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by The Blue Streak

[LNER4479]

I watched your layout  Grantham progress from afar and having visited there in the fifties/early sixties ...what an incredible place to watch trains, often thought what could this man and his group do with the LMR now it seems we are to see......I am so looking forward to this.

 

Rgds..Mike

Many thanks Mike. Looking forward to it myself ... but all in due course. Grantham is still the current layout at the present time.

 

You wouldn't see much on Citadel station with the original roof in place, we're not sure we can put the present one on in any form as even this version measures 7ft by 3ft and would need to be removable for maintenance.

It's a conundrum isn't it Mike? Unlike the masterpiece that you are involved with, I'm firmly rooted in the 1950's and I find myself drawn to the original roof with its magnificent end screens (even though they were in a somewhat dilapidated condition in that era). And another major difference with my intended project is that there will be significant compression - I'm looking at max 10 coach trains - so the overall roof wouldn't quite be on the same scale (still be pretty huge, mind!).

 

One possible solution is to have the central section of the roof removable, which still allows the end and sides to be constructed in situ.

 

This is the recovered terminus station from my previous layout, which I intend to adapt for use with the new project as the 'rest of the world'. It is my representation of Manchester Central station - the roof is about 4 foot long, with the central (no pun intended) 2 feet removable. Worked quite well in practice.

[gr.king]

Were they the ones with the Crossley 2 stroke v8 ?

 

 

P1010019.JPG

The 1962 Ian Allen ABC Combined Volume certainly says 1200hp Crossley V8, locos introduced 1958.

 

I only mentioned quirkiness. Unreliability is an entirely different subject - one with many chapters in the case of the Co-Bos I gather....