CUTLER2579 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Somewhat different opinion up where I'm domiciled these days (North East of England), where 'brown field' sites abound! Have to be a bit careful what you say re the Iron Lady round these parts Sorry to be hogging this thread today,however I agree wholeheartedly with 4479 on this as I have family & friends at Thorne who had their own business in the Town and suffered as badly, if not worse that the miners.With my London accent,despite being Lincolnshire born, I get a lot of stick from one or two ex-miners, once they get in Ale or get talking about The Strike. Of course if they accepted that I was from Grantham then I guess they would assume that I supported Maggie and so it's a No Win situation, I guess. Their is one thing I must say in Maggies favour , she was a better leader than any we have had since as apart from the Poll Tax she always stuck to her guns. Now not wishing to be political I rarely have much good to say about the Lady, however the above stares me in the face as the truth. I thought the Poll Tax was a great idea and wish she had held her ground on that. Now non of the above is meant to be Political, just my opinion of what History will say about the Lady. Loved poor old Dennis though ,he was a character. Light Hearted Del Boy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 I think we best get back to some modellin' Details, details - it's all details now... Water columns (Mikes Models). With saw and low melt soldering iron to hand these can be quite easily modified. 'As delivered' kit on the right for comparison This is the well known column at the south end of platform 2 (is actually positioned to be the marker for the Kadee uncoupler for south end loco changes). Obviously a few things to finish off yet. The real thing(!), courtesy of the Return to Grantham website. This is the appearance I'm aiming for (including the 'bucket' for catching the drips), even if it's not in exactly the same spot. Bicycles! Everyone had a bike in them days... A further visit from the scenery team on Monday night saw more progress with the town scene. In particular, the row of terrace houses had their back yards added. A bit cramped? But some back yards were like that (weren't they?). There is a bike in one of them(!) but it doesn't show on this pic. I meanwhile messed about with backscenes. Now this is by no means my strong suit so quite happy to accept criticism; it is very much a 'will do for now' sort of approach, making use of some pictures of the real Grantham, both contemporary and historic, trying a few things and see what works. The depot ground treatment is all but finished and a shunters' hut has sprouted (there was one in this vicinity). Someone's grabbing a crafty 40 winks (did they do that sort of thing in the 1930's) I'm hoping the former Grantham spotters will relate to this little cameo. Apparently you 'erberts regularly made a nuisance of yourself and were summarily shoo'd off the station , whereupon you'd gravitate to this spot by the depot entrance / exit to pursue your innocent past time 19 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted August 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2015 Hi. The detailing is coming along really well and the water column looks good to me. Back in the '30's bicycles would be as common as cars are in this day and age - most people would have a bike or access to one. Backscenes continue to be a problem, for me it is the perspective - I think that you can only really get it right from one angle with all of the other angles looking hopelessly wrong - I know that is how it has gone for my backscenes. Perhaps, seriously, some form of holo-graphic projection would be the answer, but goodness knows, if successful, what the cost would be. Continuing to experiment with them and to reach a form of compromise over the angles and perspective is probably the best answer. All the best, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted August 20, 2015 Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Woo hoo - the tachometer went through 200,000 views overnight - thanks guys! (Mind you - @199,000 of them were probably me!!) Edited August 20, 2015 by LNER4479 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullie Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Well deserved, a fantastic layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 The choice of background is problematic. I tend to steer clear of backgrounds which have things that catch the viewers attention - and incorrect perspective is the worst offender - and opt for a plain, neutral colour. The brain tends to accept the absence of the rest of the world more readily than a poor representation of it, this is something theatre design relies on. I don't even paint the background 'sky colour' (whatever it is, it's almost never 'blue') and avoid clouds and other things that catch the eye. I would frame your beautiful representation of Grantham with a neat, tidy, neutral backing that does not command attention to itself. Grantham is probably a bit large for a Ricey Proscenium arch, but his ideas on neutral backgrounds are sound and I feel my own modest layout works well with a neutral background. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY@34F Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Hello "Robert", Looking good , just for interest : the little hut in your 2382 post is actually used by visiting loco crews for somewhere to spend half an hour , make a brew and a bite of snap . Or at least it was in my day . They would drop their engine off on the ashpit/coaling plant road , check with the loco foreman in the time office of any changes to their planned return job , and after a cuppa , pick their prepared engine up on "London road" I've been there in my days at K.X. Gosh what happy days too ! Looking forward to the Grantham show , appreciate the hard work chaps . Regards , Roy . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted August 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2015 Hi Robert, Just dropped in to look at what you're doing, after our conversation on my thread. I have to say that the backscene you have used is actually quite effective, the generic fields and walls in muted colours work well. I think the steeple looks ok, but maybe not high enough. However, the photographed terrace is not a success, it would be better if it sloped upwards, not downwards, towards the distance. As I said on my thread, your layout is so big that getting a cohesive backscene is always going to be a challenge, maybe short sections of free-standing photographic backscene that can be moved into place for taking photos of the layout? Al. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted August 20, 2015 Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 Hi Robert, Just dropped in to look at what you're doing, after our conversation on my thread. I have to say that the backscene you have used is actually quite effective, the generic fields and walls in muted colours work well. I think the steeple looks ok, but maybe not high enough. However, the photographed terrace is not a success, it would be better if it sloped upwards, not downwards, towards the distance. As I said on my thread, your layout is so big that getting a cohesive backscene is always going to be a challenge, maybe short sections of free-standing photographic backscene that can be moved into place for taking photos of the layout? Al. Thanks Al, The terrace view is in fact a coloured turn of the century view of the actual street involved (Grantham's Westgate): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grantham,_Lincolnshire,_England_-_Wide_Westgate_1906.jpg so a bit too good to ignore altogether - however, I agree that it doesn't really 'work' from a perspective point of view. It only really 'works' from a low down viewpoint... ... but that's not what an exhibition audience sees! this also illustrates how I'm limited with what I can do with the church spire (the third tallest in England apparently!) - my backscene isn't too high so I can't position it any higher up. Thanks for your thoughts. It'll stay as it is for the Grantham show and I'll ponder on what to do in the meantime. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
g0ibi Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Thanks Al, The terrace view is in fact a coloured turn of the century view of the actual street involved (Grantham's Westgate): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grantham,_Lincolnshire,_England_-_Wide_Westgate_1906.jpg so a bit too good to ignore altogether - however, I agree that it doesn't really 'work' from a perspective point of view. It only really 'works' from a low down viewpoint... IMG_5075.JPG ... but that's not what an exhibition audience sees! this also illustrates how I'm limited with what I can do with the church spire (the third tallest in England apparently!) - my backscene isn't too high so I can't position it any higher up. Thanks for your thoughts. It'll stay as it is for the Grantham show and I'll ponder on what to do in the meantime. Looks good to me, I lived just off Westgate in Stanton Street. Was there a garage at the Wharf Road/Westgate junction in those days? I remember it in the early 1950's as a kid! Cheers Ron 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted August 20, 2015 Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 Looks good to me, I lived just off Westgate in Stanton Street. Was there a garage at the Wharf Road/Westgate junction in those days? I remember it in the early 1950's as a kid! Cheers Ron Hi Ron, That's very interesting. We've taken the details of the townscene, and in particular the 'triangle' between Wharf Road and Westgate, from the pictures from the Britain from Above website. There is a 1927 photo showing this area (no garage) and a series of 1950's picture which indeed do appear to show a garage in this area. So it seems that it wasn't there pre-war. It's interesting that you can confirm a garage in the 1950's. Even though the BFA photos are quite clear, by the time you've zoomed in to get a close up, the detail is a little hazy - we thought it looked like a garage! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 A couple of thoughts on backscenes. Use road vehicles (and anything else available) to hide the change from horizontal to vertical. Then persuade the punter to look at some scenes and not at others. Use full relief and half relief buildings to minimise the viewing angle, so the punter looks into the scene rather than across it.. Use trees to hide the edges of half relief buildings. Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted August 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2015 Thanks Al, The terrace view is in fact a coloured turn of the century view of the actual street involved (Grantham's Westgate): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grantham,_Lincolnshire,_England_-_Wide_Westgate_1906.jpg so a bit too good to ignore altogether - however, I agree that it doesn't really 'work' from a perspective point of view. It only really 'works' from a low down viewpoint... IMG_5075.JPG ... but that's not what an exhibition audience sees! this also illustrates how I'm limited with what I can do with the church spire (the third tallest in England apparently!) - my backscene isn't too high so I can't position it any higher up. Thanks for your thoughts. It'll stay as it is for the Grantham show and I'll ponder on what to do in the meantime. You're quite right, it works very well from street level, looks really good. Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Herbert Nigel Posted August 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2015 Thanks Al, The terrace view is in fact a coloured turn of the century view of the actual street involved (Grantham's Westgate): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grantham,_Lincolnshire,_England_-_Wide_Westgate_1906.jpg so a bit too good to ignore altogether - however, I agree that it doesn't really 'work' from a perspective point of view. It only really 'works' from a low down viewpoint... IMG_5075.JPG ... but that's not what an exhibition audience sees! this also illustrates how I'm limited with what I can do with the church spire (the third tallest in England apparently!) - my backscene isn't too high so I can't position it any higher up. Thanks for your thoughts. It'll stay as it is for the Grantham show and I'll ponder on what to do in the meantime. Thanks Al, The terrace view is in fact a coloured turn of the century view of the actual street involved (Grantham's Westgate): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grantham,_Lincolnshire,_England_-_Wide_Westgate_1906.jpg so a bit too good to ignore altogether - however, I agree that it doesn't really 'work' from a perspective point of view. It only really 'works' from a low down viewpoint... IMG_5075.JPG ... but that's not what an exhibition audience sees! this also illustrates how I'm limited with what I can do with the church spire (the third tallest in England apparently!) - my backscene isn't too high so I can't position it any higher up. Thanks for your thoughts. It'll stay as it is for the Grantham show and I'll ponder on what to do in the meantime. Forgive me, but I'm sure earlier in the thread reference was made to a painted back scene? This would permit more adjustment to the perspective than using photographs which are usually taken from ground level (especially in 1938!).... Since the majority of model railways are viewed from an approximate scale height about 100 to 200M ABOVE natural ground level, photography only really seems to work in a very general way as background to completely country scenes where the railway sits in a valley bottom. I'm not suggesting you can achieve a painted scene in time for the Grantham show of course, but it would seem to be the only way to achieve a satisfactory, long term solution? It would be tragic after the effort that has been put into this model for it to be spoilt for sake of the background. I have to ask - how does the Faller road system work with the photographed area as shown? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Forgive me, but I'm sure earlier in the thread reference was made to a painted back scene? This would permit more adjustment to the perspective than using photographs which are usually taken from ground level (especially in 1938!).... Since the majority of model railways are viewed from an approximate scale height about 100 to 200M ABOVE natural ground level, photography only really seems to work in a very general way as background to completely country scenes where the railway sits in a valley bottom. I'm not suggesting you can achieve a painted scene in time for the Grantham show of course, but it would seem to be the only way to achieve a satisfactory, long term solution? It would be tragic after the effort that has been put into this model for it to be spoilt for sake of the background. I have to ask - how does the Faller road system work with the photographed area as shown? Hi, Yes, the long-term intention is for painted back scenes - or at least most of them painted. It's only in the town scene where we have a rather 'sharp' change from model to backscene so I'm just playing about with a few ideas - including half relief and decoupage - to try and soften the transition. One of the issues is indeed the Faller road system (congrats on being the first to 'spot' that!). Now you've highlighted it, I'm going to have to take some video! (mutter, mutter, mutter...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted August 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2015 Ballasting can be very therapeutic.. well thats what I was told...... but it does make the layout look... finished... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Funny what turns up on shed when the master ballaster is in town... 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted August 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2015 Two lovely loco's there, which look to be kit built. Is BR beckoning? With best regards, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted August 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) not unless the layout is regauged to EM.. mind you we did have a proper A3 visit a while back Note: edited as rmweb pre crash put the same thing to in 3 times. Edited August 22, 2015 by Barry O 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Herbert Nigel Posted August 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2015 And in triplicate! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Herbert Nigel Posted August 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2015 A couple of thoughts on backscenes. Use road vehicles (and anything else available) to hide the change from horizontal to vertical. I hate to mention this again, but isn't it the case here that viewers will be "drawn" to look at this area of the back scene very specifically because of the appearance of vehicles (on the Faller road system) magically appearing "through" the very back scene "Robert" (the Devil) doesn't want them to look at? I'm sorry don't have a solution to the problem myself but I look forward to reading suggestions as to how this can be resolved (and then unashamedly copying it)! Oh, and please LNER4479, don't get distracted by any need to supply video's. Far better spend the time getting ready for the show and wowing those who haven't caught this magnum opus yet! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) Grantham will soon be rid of those strange engines in Luftwaffe green. The mini-sqaudron of J6s were all running-in their Mitsumi-Merlins on my modelling bench last night: It certainly won't be "curtains" for the LNER period on Grantham, in fact the curtains may proclaim the truth, i.e.Rules! Edited August 23, 2015 by gr.king 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LNER4479 Posted August 25, 2015 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Just been in to the chapel model railway room with the camera - blimey, I'm getting a bit behind with updating you guys, so here we go: We start with these gorgeous bits of detail. Aren't they lovely? The work of Tom (Dewdney) again; he and Paul were here at the weekend for some more scenery work. This one's my favourite and will have pride of place right at the front of the layout where there's a nice spot for it. The inspiration for this model is a picture in the Cossey book showing a delivery cart almost impossibly loaded up with nothing more fancy than tables and chairs; the Grantham horse n cart is therefore off to find a 'four candles' ironmongers... My job was to work on the cattle market fencing, using some silhouette cutter parts prepared by Paul. There's scope to add a few more but this'll have to do for the Grantham show for now I've been plugging away at some more depot details and have to say I quite like this cluster of buildings, etc that's now starting to form up. Yes - the bike shed is complete with bicycles! And I just couldn't resist this! In truth, this was probably not there in the 1930's but it appears in some 1960's views - a makeshift bothy fashioned from an old van body. So typical of the 'make do and mend' philosophy of depots. Not to be outdone, Paul has made up the cattle dock for the Up Goods Yard. Although there's plenty of work still to do here, this and the adjacent cattle being herded down to the market tells the complete story of the railway's transportation of livestock. Also, the first of two buildings depicting the maltings industry in the yard is now complete (the much larger warehouse building already complete is indeed 'just' the warehouse!) Meanwhile, down at Peascliffe Tunnel... ...Fred & Jim are puzzling over the new-fangled technology (wanted - a decent picture of the inside of a relay cabinet. I can hear LNERGE & co howling with derision already) Finally, a 'shot for nothing' showing the view from the top of the tunnel, looking through Craig's splendid developing arboreal creation. Right - back to work... (Do you think there should now be some sort of embargo to ensure exclusivity for the show?) Edited August 25, 2015 by LNER4479 26 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Boco_D1 Posted August 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2015 This layout gets better and better everytime I have a look at your thread. I particularly like the van body shed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted August 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's really looking superb. The bike shed looks really lifelike to me, along with the cattle dock. The layout will be a credit to the show. With regards, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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