Mk1 Sleeper

[mevaman]

Thanks to all on the info on the Padd-PZ sleepers.

 

It looks like there were mainly SLC sleeper composites on the services.

 

Andrew

[davidw]

Any news on the Maroon ones - they can't be far....

[BR(S)]

Any news on the Maroon ones - they can't be far....

 

39-500 showing as expected in the next 60 days: http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/new_arrivals.php?prod_selected=2

[ozzyo]

Further to my earlier post, two further shots of the Mk 1 sleeper.  The first showing the much-improved underfame detail (including separate effluent and vacuum pipes, as well as footsteps), and the second showing an SLF.  I have added blinds to the SLF - but am not yet sure I have them right.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

IIRC, you did not just have blinds, but you also had a sliding panel that covered the whole window to help cut out noise.

 

OzzyO.

[robertcwp]

I now have a couple of the blue/grey seconds. They are excellent models apart from the poor coupling/bogie interface being discussed in a separate thread.

 

Also, Bachmann have managed to number the carriage as one of only five SLSTP built by Metro-Cammell.  Why is this significant - look at the rainstrip on the roof above the door at the toilet end:

 

E2575_Craigentinny_29-7-76 by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

On the Met-Cam ones this is curved, whereas Bachmann have modelled the more typical straight version found on BR-built vehicles. 

 

This photo also shows the B5 bogies, whereas Bachmann have used their existing B4 tooling (as on their Mark II stock) it appears.

[Bob Reid]

I'd have to say Robert, that (aside from the painted number), I'm happier that they've chosen to represent the other 187 SLSTP's and not the rather more unique 5 Met-Cam built ones.

[robertcwp]

I'd have to say Robert, that (aside from the painted number), I'm happier that they've chosen to represent the other 187 SLSTP's and not the rather more unique 5 Met-Cam built ones.

I agree.  As the number they have chosen matches that in the photo in my collection, I wonder where their choice of number came from.

[Southernman46]

just got 2 - sweet !

[Removed a/c]

Would any of these have been used in the 1980s? and if so what configurations would you see in a rake?

[robertcwp]

The Mark I sleeper survived into the early 1980s, with the final ones being in Scotland if I recall correctly.  There were a couple of SLCT (a type not yet listed by Bachmann) in the 23.50 Inverness-Glasgow/Edinburgh car sleeper, formed on departure from Inverness as follows in winter 1982-3:

 

TSO, 2 NDV (detached Perth, forward to Edinburgh)

3 NDV, 2 TSO, TSO (FO), SLCT (Glasgow)

SLCT, 2 TSO, NDV, NXV (Motorail) (detached Stirling, forward to Edinburgh)

[Brian Kirby]

Just copied over this post of mine from last night, tucked away in the "Modified RTR" section, in case anyone else may be interested. All comments welcome: 

 

I've been discussing the roof ducts on the BR Sleeping Cars with three well informed colleagues from BRCS (all of whom have posted above). The initial release of the SLSTP is correct with a full length roof duct, whereas (fingers crossed) the forthcoming SLF should appear with the slightly shorter duct, as seen on a Bachmann pre-production model. If anyone wishes to convert one to, or if Bachmann produce in the future, a SLC (Sleeper Composite), one should use the SLF shorter duct version. It has been discovered that the longer length duct on the SLSTP, was on account of the interior control on the furthest cabin from the attendant's compartment, needed to be located away from the top bunk. One difficulty on converting a SLF model, will be removing half of the yellow stripe and matching the blue. A conversion from SLS to SLE will be easy, with just a change of numbers, etc. 

 

The more you dig, the more variation you discover, early WR examples in maroon had different end intake fittings, bogies were swapped and i've found at least five livery variations in just blue-grey. These are b/g with block lettering (1965/6 onwards), b/g with Rail Alphabet "Sleeping Car" to the right of the centre door  (1966 on), "Sleeping Car" in later regular position by left-hand door (late 60s on), "Inter-City Sleeper" (with hyphen, 1970s on) and "Inter City Sleeper" (without hyphen, mid-70s on). Many older slogan variants survived until withdrawal, plus many had differing rainstrips. Who said they were all the same? This should keep us all busy for a while ! 

 

                                                                 Cheers, Brian.

 

[robertcwp]

The thing that concerns me is that the photos of the blue/grey SLF and maroon SLSTP in August Model Rail both show the wrong length ducts.  The blue/grey SLF has a long duct and the maroon SLSTP has a short duct.  I hope the production models are not like this!

[Atilla]

The Mark I sleeper survived into the early 1980s, with the final ones being in Scotland if I recall correctly.  There were a couple of SLCT (a type not yet listed by Bachmann) in the 23.50 Inverness-Glasgow/Edinburgh car sleeper, formed on departure from Inverness as follows in winter 1982-3:

 

TSO, 2 NDV (detached Perth, forward to Edinburgh)

3 NDV, 2 TSO, TSO (FO), SLCT (Glasgow)

SLCT, 2 TSO, NDV, NXV (Motorail) (detached Stirling, forward to Edinburgh)

Certainly during the summer of 1980 and possibly as late as the summer of 1981, the Kings Cross to Sunderland sleeper (detached from a northbound service at Darlington and which then formed an early morning all stations local service via Stockton to Sunderland) was formed of 2 Mk 1 sleepers and a couple of Mk 1 day coaches (usually including a BSK if my memory serves me correctly) all hauled by a class 47. The train used to call at Stockton at around 7.30 in the morning and I often used to catch it from Stockton to Billingham when working as a vac student for ICI

[RANGERS]

Certainly during the summer of 1980 and possibly as late as the summer of 1981, the Kings Cross to Sunderland sleeper (detached from a northbound service at Darlington and which then formed an early morning all stations local service via Stockton to Sunderland) was formed of 2 Mk 1 sleepers and a couple of Mk 1 day coaches (usually including a BSK if my memory serves me correctly) all hauled by a class 47. The train used to call at Stockton at around 7.30 in the morning and I often used to catch it from Stockton to Billingham when working as a vac student for ICI

I'd be interested to know when they were finally withdrawn, any info' anyone? I've already asked for info' on the ECML formations elsewhere on the forum which has filled in the blanks on that front.

 

The MK3 was introduced from Feb 1982 on certain ECML services, I came back from Aberdeen on the late service one night in April 1982 and we paid a premium to the privilege of MK3s. I believe these services were the first to get them, even so, the bulk of sleepers were still MK1 into the winter of 1982-3, which was my last contact with them before the ECML services ceased. I've a pic somewhere of an unknown Motorail set passing Rugby early one morning in the summer of 1984 which had MK 1s at the head of it, but it's not possible to see what the rest of the consist was. One of the ex LMS 68' cars on six wheel bogies in Blue & grey would be a nice accompaniment to the MK1s. 

[keefer]

we've had mention of modelling interiors/blinds etc, but who's going to be first to model this?

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/6038187862/sizes/l/in/set-72157603653607671/

 

i must admit i never knew the main windowpane was a droplight!

 

another interesting early pic shows blinds in the vestibule doors as well

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4447828451/in/set-72157603653607671/

[keefer]

The thing that concerns me is that the photos of the blue/grey SLF and maroon SLSTP in August Model Rail both show the wrong length ducts.  The blue/grey SLF has a long duct and the maroon SLSTP has a short duct.  I hope the production models are not like this!

 

post #61 mentions that the roof is a separate item to the body - possibly just a mix-up if the coaches were dismantled for the review?

obviously hoping the correct coaches get the correct roof in the first place, but easily rectified?

[Bob Reid]

we've had mention of modelling interiors/blinds etc, but who's going to be first to model this?

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/6038187862/sizes/l/in/set-72157603653607671/

 

i must admit i never knew the main windowpane was a droplight!

 

another interesting early pic shows blinds in the vestibule doors as well

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4447828451/in/set-72157603653607671/

 

I'll give a try Keefer - the blinds worked well, but the SLF shutters - well I'll need the SLF first (with the correct roof - I have every confidence or a large supply of edible headwear) 

[Bob Reid]

.......

another interesting early pic shows blinds in the vestibule doors as well

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4447828451/in/set-72157603653607671/

 

I think it's just a reflection from the sky Keefer - I don't ever recall blinds there - and they'd be absolutely pointless!

[mark54]

...... i've found at least five livery variations in just blue-grey. These are b/g with block lettering (1965/6 onwards), b/g with Rail Alphabet "Sleeping Car" to the right of the centre door  (1966 on), "Sleeping Car" in later regular position by left-hand door (late 60s on), "Inter-City Sleeping Car" (with hyphen, 1970s on) and "Inter City Sleeping Car" (without hyphen, mid-70s on). Many older slogan variants survived until withdrawal, plus many had differing rainstrips. Who said they were all the same? This should keep us all busy for a while ! 

 

                                                                 Cheers, Brian.

 

Slight correction Brian (although I'm sure you know), it should be "Inter-City Sleeper".

 

Mark

[Brian Kirby]

Talking of the droplight in the sleeper compartment, i remember catching a sleeper to Inverness, from Glasgow Queen Street, during a hot summer c.1977/8. Occupying the rearmost cabin, on the rear coach, i opened the droplight to let in some cool air before departure. Off went the train, straight into the depths of Cowlairs Tunnel and the steep climb up out of Glasgow. The train would have been around 7 or 8 coaches long, and i thought the leading loco (a Type 2?) was working very hard, because the noise in the tunnel was deafening. I carefully sneaked my head out of the droplight window, and discovered most of the noise was coming from immediately behind, in the shape of a 133 ton Class 40, giving it some welly. From memory, the Class 40 dropped away at Cowlairs Junction, once we'd cleared the incline?                     

 

                                                                               Cheers, Brian.

[Brian Kirby]

Slight correction Brian (although I'm sure you know), it should be "Inter-City Sleeper".

 

Mark

Quite right Mark, silly me, but it was written at the end of a tiring day, Guv. I shall retrospectively edit my original post. (This will really things up now.)  Can i say up on RMweb? ;-))    BK

[keefer]

thanks for the link bob, never knew you had a blog - lots of good info there, saved it to my favourites

[keefer]

discovered most of the noise was coming from immediately behind, in the shape of a 133 ton Class 40, giving it some welly. From memory, the Class 40 dropped away at Cowlairs Junction, once we'd cleared the incline?

 

very common move at queen st., brian.

 

the loco that brought the stock in would be uncoupled, then would bank the departing train up the hill.

obviously helpful on the 1-in-21 incline, but i think also saved a path back to eastfield for what would otherwise be a light-loco move, in what could be a very busy station with only 2 tracks in/out

[Bob Reid]

Talking of the droplight in the sleeper compartment, i remember catching a sleeper to Inverness, from Glasgow Queen Street, during a hot summer c.1977/8. Occupying the rearmost cabin, on the rear coach, i opened the droplight to let in some cool air before departure. Off went the train, straight into the depths of Cowlairs Tunnel and the steep climb up out of Glasgow. The train would have been around 7 or 8 coaches long, and i thought the leading loco (a Type 2?) was working very hard, because the noise in the tunnel was deafening. I carefully sneaked my head out of the droplight window, and discovered most of the noise was coming from immediately behind, in the shape of a 133 ton Class 40, giving it some welly. From memory, the Class 40 dropped away at Cowlairs Junction, once we'd cleared the incline?                     

 

                                                                               Cheers, Brian.

The Eastfield crew were probably job and finish - they'd have been wheel spinning that 40 all the way up - whilst the class 27 driver at the front enjoyed the view!  - the banking engine usually dropped back just before the top of the incline to stop and await the road for the shed.

[Gwiwer]

I managed to fit window blinds to Hornby sleepers very easily with pale grey art paper.  As I have the bodies off the Mk1 Bachmanns ready for the same feature to be added all i'm waiting for is to locate some suitably-coloured paper!  

 

Those drop-down windows could be a real nuisance as the coaches got older.  I was once part of a university group travelling from Euston to Glasgow Central overnight.  Being the "odd number" I nominally got to share a compartment with a stranger until someone else volunteered to do so in order to avoid sharing with a known snorer.  I opted for snorer over stranger, found no problem sleeping and had a compartment with a fully-closed window.  My swap-mate found (too late) that the window in the compartment I was supposed to have been in was jammed part-open and so endured a cold and noisy sleepless night!