Wright writes.....

[Focalplane]

On the white paint subject, I always swore by Dulux Trade Brilliant White for woodwork but no longer.  Valspar premium gloss or satin is now the paint for me.  Only available at B&Q but a favorite back when I lived in Texas.

 

On the subject of yellowing with time, when smoking was allowed in pubs, did you ever see a white painted wall?  No, they were painted creamy yellow so that the nicotine had a lesser staining effect!

 

On the subject of passenger rake compositions, it seems to me that even the next to top link expresses had no fixed rake so "mix and match" was the order of the day.  This was not true with many of the named expresses in the States, such as the Daylight(s) which had purpose built rakes with extra coach class cars available at peak times.  Such trains really had no chance to weather differently, though those extra coach class cars might not have faded so quickly, at least on their shaded sides in the storage yard.

[Nimbus]

Thank you for that. For those that don't know it is at Welwyn Garden City. My usual train-watching spot was about half a mile North of the station by Lyall's (sp?} Bridge, which can be seen in the distance. I had forgotten just how many Pullman trains there were back then. Is it possible that the next train would be steam hauled as late as this?

I started travelling to Big School by train through WGC about the time this photo was processed. That meant about 45 mins each way at the same times every weekday. I can recall only 2 steam-hauled trains and one light engine movement (4472 and 7029 excepted) coinciding with those journeys. 1 grimy A4 on an up XP through Hatfield on a dull afternoon; 1 9F on an up goods overtaking my Cravens unit between WGC and Hatfield in afternoon twilight; and something green and very shiny sliding almost silently and barely glimpsed, through Brookmans Park on the down slow on a sunny summer's afternoon. The impression I have features a lack of 'blinkers', so maybe a V2?

 

The Nim.

 

[Edit: Castle's number]

Edited July 17, 2015 by Nimbus

[Tony Wright]

On the white paint subject, I always swore by Dulux Trade Brilliant White for woodwork but no longer.  Valspar premium gloss or satin is now the paint for me.  Only available at B&Q but a favorite back when I lived in Texas.

 

On the subject of yellowing with time, when smoking was allowed in pubs, did you ever see a white painted wall?  No, they were painted creamy yellow so that the nicotine had a lesser staining effect!

 

On the subject of passenger rake compositions, it seems to me that even the next to top link expresses had no fixed rake so "mix and match" was the order of the day.  This was not true with many of the named expresses in the States, such as the Daylight(s) which had purpose built rakes with extra coach class cars available at peak times.  Such trains really had no chance to weather differently, though those extra coach class cars might not have faded so quickly, at least on their shaded sides in the storage yard.

Paul,

 

All normal scheduled expresses on BR had a formation noted in the official Carriage Working Diagram books issued by BR to staff at the relevant depots and principal stations. These would include the number of vehicles, types and the seating. Study of them (for my period and Region - late-'50s, Eastern) will tell if the cars are Mk.1s or pre-Nationalisation - Thompson corridor stock is identified by its transverse corridors. So, though there might have been 'mix and match' as necessary, an ideal fixed rake was laid down, including which way round the Kitchens were in Pullman trains.  

[mark54]

Another request, please.

 

Can anyone tell me what finally happened to the 1947 Budd stainless steel carriage SILVER PRINCESS? I know it saw experimental service on the LNER, LMS and the CIE and eventually was allocated to the LMR, repainted in carmine/cream, lost its name and was given the number M7585M. By then it was all-First, rather than its original Compo and was fitted out as a lounge bar. 

I've an idea it ran in a principal LMR train, but can't find my references. Thus, which one, and was it ever painted in full maroon and when was it withdrawn? 

 

Helpers will be given an acknowledgement - many thanks in advance.

LMR Carriage Working Notices between 1957 to 1961 show it in the 08:10 (or thereabouts) Liverpool Lime Street to Euston and return at 16:55 (or thereabouts) - named The Shamrock. In the winter 1965 CWN it is shown in 09:40 Manchester Piccadilly to Euston and 18:05 return - named The Mancunian. As the Winter timetable ran until April 1966 and the introduction of the full WCML Electric Service, this would tie in with a withdrawal around this time. The Oct 1966 Railway Observer has it noted on 26th June at Derby as condemned.

 

Mark Jenkins

 

PS. The 1928 Kitchen First in the Sheffield Pullman must be BELINDA as it is fitted with 10ft Gresley Bogies.

Edited July 17, 2015 by mark54

[westerner]

I'm intrigued by this stainless steel vehicle. Anyone got any photos?

[lee74clarke]

I'm intrigued by this stainless steel vehicle. Anyone got any photos?

Type 'Silver Princess Railway Carriage' into Google and some old posts on this forum are the first articles you'll see.

One of the links has a photo

[corneliuslundie]

I understand that recent legislation has forced changes in the formulation of white paints which means that they will yellow even faster.

 

Is it titanium that makes white paint resistant to yellowing? Certainly titanium white used to be the real white in my paintbox.

 

Jonathan

[petethemole]

I understand that recent legislation has forced changes in the formulation of white paints which means that they will yellow even faster.

 

 

 

Which means that over time, paint manufacturers collectively will sell more paint. Funny that ain't it.

[Poggy1165]

Or alternatively, yellowish white will become the 'in' colour. 

[edcayton]

They could call it Magnolia.

 

Ed

[Ravenser]

Titanium dioxide is the pigment that makers paint white (my late father used to work for one of the major manufacturers, so TiO2 is one chemical formula I'm not likely to forget)

 

To the best of my knowledge it's non-toxic and produced from naturally occurring mineral sands , so I'd be astonished if it had been banned. It's predecessor was white lead - nuff said..

 

It's probably something else in the paint that's been banned

[polybear]

I've a feeling that a push towards water based paints is behind it:

 

http://www.which.co.uk/home-and-garden/home-improvements/reviews-ns/gloss-paint/low-voc-paint/

 

I believe cars are now painted using water based paints also, which is meaning that cellulose paints (and thinners) is getting harder to obtain (the trick is to go to a large specialist motor paint supplier and tell them you're restoring a classic car.....).

 

How long will it be before model enamels bite the dust?

 

Good ol' EU strike again.....

[Anglian]

I understand that recent legislation has forced changes in the formulation of white paints which means that they will yellow even faster.

 

Is it titanium that makes white paint resistant to yellowing? Certainly titanium white used to be the real white in my paintbox.

 

Jonathan

 

 

Having spoken with a few technical people at the paint manufacturers they have all consistently told me that all oil and lacquer based paints and varnishes have the ability to yellow over time. That's not to say they will, more that they have the ability to.

 

Acrylic paints generally don't weather to yellow as they are based on different chemistry and the resin base used ensures they won't yellow.

 

You've only got to look in a tin of Humbrol enamel that's stood undisturbed  for a while to see the brownish yellow carrier sitting on top of the paint pigment in the tin.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Anglian

[Focalplane]

One of the ironies of life is that Rod Stewart (the most famous railway modeler of our age?) is color blind. This explains the overall color cast to his incredible model railway. Though I have read (in RM?) that his support team have repainted some of his many hand built structures, made while having some pre-performance R&R in a hotel room.

 

I should add, that having stayed in quite a few hotel rooms in my career, that good lighting is not something that Hyatt, Marriott, etc. know very much about. Which brings us full circle to the question of "true" colors in old photos. Take a photo of the same Pullman coach at different times of the day and the colors will be rendered differently. Take photos of the same coach in the same location at noon over a period of time and they will also be different due to fading of the paint in the course of time.

 

Conclusion? Don't worry about it!

[newbryford]

I've a feeling that a push towards water based paints is behind it:

 

http://www.which.co.uk/home-and-garden/home-improvements/reviews-ns/gloss-paint/low-voc-paint/

 

I believe cars are now painted using water based paints also, which is meaning that cellulose paints (and thinners) is getting harder to obtain (the trick is to go to a large specialist motor paint supplier and tell them you're restoring a classic car.....).

 

 

 

Ford (and most of the others) have been using water based paint for at least 5-6 years now.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Oldddudders]

More than 20 years ago I recall BMW were saying they could reclaim paint from their cars. Green credentials in the motor trade are hardly an impediment to sales.

[coachmann]

Enamel and acrylics cure and change during drying out. Cellulose simply dries out and can become paint once more by adding thinners. Baking enamel is funny stuff....Is it still used today? All gas cookers were stove enamelled at one time. A company in Denton, Manchester stoved a batch of cookers dark green during the early years of war but for some reason the paint separated while being baked and the cookers came out blue with yellow dots. Panic set in when management thought it was a waste of materials, but a government inspector requested the company to find out what went wrong and to produce all cookers blue with yellow dots, as they would sell like hot cakes!

Edited July 19, 2015 by coachmann

[Tony Wright]

May I thank all those in the audience (with one exception) who listened with so much interest to my talk at the CMRA day in Watford yesterday, and also thank them for the most pertinent comments and questions, please? 

[polybear]

May I thank all those in the audience (with one exception) who listened with so much interest to my talk at the CMRA day in Watford yesterday.......

 

I've a sneaky feeling there's a story there somewhere.....  

Edited July 19, 2015 by polybear

[Focalplane]

My father's business, which he started in 1922, was in metal finishing, essentially plating, anodizing and spraying. The spray shop did mostly baked enamel jobs and the most recognizable to many of us was the shade of an Anglepoise desk lamp.

 

I have no idea if such a process is still used today as alternatives, such as color anodizing have made inroads. But there is no reason why baked enamel paint should not still be around as a process. I wouldn't like to use the process on a white metal kit though.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Focalplane

[TEAMYAKIMA]

May I thank all those in the audience (with one exception) who listened with so much interest to my talk at the CMRA day in Watford yesterday, and also thank them for the most pertinent comments and questions, please? 

 

Hello Tony

 

I was one of those (not THE one you understand) ........... with reference to your reference to the J15 and the Stephen Poole kit you once built ... if you hurry you might still be able to buy one of those kits (partially built) as there is one on ebay today with a starting price of £54.99 ... no bids at present

 

Paul

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

I was one of those (not THE one you understand) ........... with reference to your reference to the J15 and the Stephen Poole kit you once built ... if you hurry you might still be able to buy one of those kits (partially built) as there is one on ebay today with a starting price of £54.99 ... no bids at present

 

Paul

Thanks Paul, but I don't think I'll be making a bid. 

I assume the price includes wheels/motor - if not, how can anyone hope to sell such a model in comparison with the RTR Hornby item? 

 

With regard to my talk; it probably posed more questions than it answered. Perhaps its title 'The Future of the Hobby' was too pompous, and a better choice would have been 'The Hobby, a Personal View'. Because of the slow-acting projector, I didn't have chance to go really beyond the locos and rolling stock pictures - there were many more showing electronics, scenery, trackwork, etc, but that's life. 

 

I think what was most clear, without a doubt, was the ageing profile of the listeners. When I first gave talks to the CMRA in the early '90s, my audience (and I) was the same average age as it was on Saturday, only a quarter of a century older!

[bbishop]

Tony Wright, on 19 Jul 2015 - 17:54, said:

May I thank all those in the audience (with one exception) who listened with so much interest to my talk at the CMRA day in Watford yesterday.......

 

Edited by polybear

I've a sneaky feeling there's a story there somewhere.....  

---------------------------

Jesus only knows!

--------------------------

 

To be serious, Tony didn't give a talk, he gave a lecture.  Which meant he showed photographs of layouts which were built from scratch and make some provoking statements about the future of the hobby.  Which meant the audience had to engage brain cells.  One person patently couldn't, demanded that Tony "got to the point", then left - wearing a pair of shorts that may once have been khaki, black socks and sandals.

 

Brilliant lecture, Tony.

 

Bill

[Mallard60022]

In my limited experience, such amusingly attired persons leaving in a huff is a sign that the talk one is giving is a success. If everyone else left, except that amusingly attired person, then it would be a different matter.

Sincerely,

Quackers of 36E (not the amusingly attired person you can be assured............ although I do own some black socks).

[Tony Wright]

Just to show that the hobby is not entirely made up of pensioners, like me.

 

 

 

 

Tome Foster (who's still under 30!) brought this Bachmann modification along with him on Sunday. With guys of this modelling calibre around, the hobby's future is bright, but we need more of them!