Wright writes.....

[gr.king]

J50 models? I'm not sure that comparisons of one make versus another are always valid, if the object of ownership is to portray a particular J50 loco correctly, since there were loads of variations between the batches of the real things as built, and further variations due to modification over the years. Some manufacturers' offerings can only portray certain versions unless they are altered by the buyer / builder. Of course, if all J50s look the same to some, then they can buy any version that includes the weight, the materials, the preferred brand name or the various electronic gimmicks that they prefer, and they have nothing to worry about, apart from the fact that they are not looking at physical features properly.

[MJI]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

What? A proper clag generator would be the immediate death of diesel-era layouts at exhibitions.

 

The exhaust from steam engines is purity itself by comparison; more so for non-superheated ones running on decent coal with a well-managed fire than for run-down superheated 1950s types.

 

37 cold starts on youtube

[Hollar]

6 hours ago, MJI said:

DCC sound to me sounds toy like.

 

I have heard a steam loco with it and it was just as good as the sound on my old Triang Flying Scotsman

I agree with you in general, but the sound chip in the Sutton Class 24  is a startling confirmation of what can be done - easily the best UK RTR loco I've seen.

 

Tony

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Perhaps I misunderstood what you mean by "clunk", Tony, but for me if trains clunk over points and crossings there is something wrong with the track and/or the trains. Rattle or clatter, yes, but not clunk.

Good evening John,

 

Perhaps 'clunk' was inappropriate as a description, but I'm sure there were plenty of them (and rattle/clatter) as an A1 took the flat crossing at Retford at speed. Whatever it was was certainly loud.

 

Which, as others have alluded to, that's what I've tried to capture (in miniature, of course) from the running of Little Bytham. The sheer 'mechanical' noise of a heavy engine (much heavier than RTR, even if their plastic bodies are full of ballast) hauling a heavy train at speed makes a splendid set of sounds. No whirring from the motor/drive (that's the hardest part to lose, and I'm not always entirely successful) but just the whole clatter as the ensemble races by. No 'chuffing', for that would be nonsense for most of the trains and no artificial whistling. Just the splendid 'real' sound of a model doing exactly what it was built to do. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

J50 models? I'm not sure that comparisons of one make versus another are always valid, if the object of ownership is to portray a particular J50 loco correctly, since there were loads of variations between the batches of the real things as built, and further variations due to modification over the years. Some manufacturers' offerings can only portray certain versions unless they are altered by the buyer / builder. Of course, if all J50s look the same to some, then they can buy any version that includes the weight, the materials, the preferred brand name or the various electronic gimmicks that they prefer, and they have nothing to worry about, apart from the fact that they are not looking at physical features properly.

Good evening Graeme,

 

I'm sure many will make comparisons between different models: I do.

 

I think the comparison(s) with regard to J50s I'd make are these. What's the price? If an RTR equivalent is accurate and represents an actual, individual J50, complete with correct details, and is considerably cheaper than a kit-built alternative, and if one wanted a J50 (or several), then that's hard not to recommend). 

 

However, if the real pleasure is in the building of something (which I'm sure more appeals to you), then (this is my personal view) the price difference (as long as it's not ridiculous) isn't so important. I'd much sooner build a J50 than have an RTR one, even if I could have two RTR ones for the same price. That aspect is much more important to me than just possession of something. 

 

Which brings me to that kit-built J50 seen earlier. If someone buys it (I hope they do - both the J94 and the Y7 have now gone), then they'll have a possession in the same way as if they'd bought a Hornby one; other than the one I have for sale is all-metal and has been made by hand. I know which I prefer, but many have different priorities.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

42 minutes ago, Hollar said:

I agree with you in general, but the sound chip in the Sutton Class 24  is a startling confirmation of what can be done - easily the best UK RTR loco I've seen.

 

Tony

Good evening Tony,

 

I've not seen a Sutton Class 24, nor heard one, but I'm told they're superb.

 

What price are they, please?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[polybear]

34 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Tony,

 

I've not seen a Sutton Class 24, nor heard one, but I'm told they're superb.

 

What price are they, please?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Hi Tony,

They range from £185 (12v), £295 (DCC Sound equipped) up to £345 (DCC Sound equipped & "stay-alive" capacitors) - assuming 00 Gauge (EM & P4 are slightly dearer)

HTH

Kind Regards

Brian

[Atso]

On 11/12/2021 at 15:50, gr.king said:

Spurred on by an enquiry I have pointed a compact digital camera with very basic video capability at both the A5 tank engine and the Stirling 0-6-0 goods engine that I took to Tony's on Wednesday , but this time on a demo run on my neglected loft layout. Neither the camera quality, the lighting or the skill of the camera man have done many favours to the result, but it may be better than nothing. I'm not sure that the frame-rate in these videos is high enough to convincingly confirm the slow smooth running abilities of the two locos.
 

Perhaps somebody with better skills and equipment will be in the right place to produce some video clips of these locos in the future, but I'm afraid that won't be at an exhibition (especially a major one) any time soon unless the Covid pandemic almost vanishes or show organisers operate much more rigorous Covid safety rules.

 Looking great Graeme, but I don't envy that poor guard should the loco separate from the tender like that!!!!

[gr.king]

I'm sure that comparisons of J50s based only on make, materials and price are perfectly valid in some situations, I was making the point that such comparisons are not always valid as one kind of J50 model may not be a model of the right kind of loco.

 

Apologies for returning to that Stirling 0-6-0 and Robinson A5 tank engine already seen on here, but having found that the video facility on another camera I have was better in some ways for the job, I've tried to produce something to make up for some of the shortcomings in the very low -resolution video I posted yesterday. As this camera has no facility to pause during  filming without producing a new file for each take, and I haven't the faintest idea of how to link up a series of clips, I could not replicate yesterday's scenes, but I hope that my result may help to demonstrate the ability of the models to start, stop and run slowly in a controllable way. As you'll see this camera isn't good for the closest shots, and I've had to film one-handed while also controlling the locos, setting points and operating switches with the other hand, but this is the best I can do without making it into a major task:

 

Remember to use the Youtube settings to get 1080p playback.

The annoying squeaking from the Stirling 0-6-0 has since been traced and eliminated, one of the phosphor bronze pick-up wires in the tender being the culprit...

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by gr.king
Spelling mistake!

[Atso]

Good evening Tony,

 

Both those J50s look good and each has its merits and drawbacks. I prefer the Hornby model's wheels but really don't like to obvious separation between the running plate and the tanks. I have the same observation about the cab (although I'm certain it is a more accurate shape than the kit built example). However, I agree that the kit built one has additional value of being somebody's work.

 

As somebody who is making much of their locos and stock from scratch (if you can call CAD and 3D printing from scratch), I'll put my hands up to purchasing N Gauge RTR when a suitable model is available. If I waited for the RTR companies to bring out everything that I wanted to model however, I'd be waiting a very long time indeed!

 

Speaking of which, here are some of my current efforts that are slowly making their way through 'the works' (apologies for the poor photos).

 

 

 

I've also been busy designing another couple of carriages.

 

 

 

A Gresley ex-GNR Dia. 46 65'6" Restaurant First body which is just awaiting the final few details. This one will be paired with a Pantry Third of similar outline in due course.

 

 

A Dia. 256 Third Brake, modified from my CAD of the 257s that run in my 'Cambridge Buffet' set and modified to create a suitable carriage to run with the Restaurant First.

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Tony,

 

I've not seen a Sutton Class 24, nor heard one, but I'm told they're superb.

 

What price are they, please?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Oh dear

 

 

[Tony Wright]

5 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Oh dear

 

 

Four minutes taxes my memory.

 

As for four years! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Denbridge]

2 hours ago, Hollar said:

I agree with you in general, but the sound chip in the Sutton Class 24  is a startling confirmation of what can be done - easily the best UK RTR loco I've seen.

 

Tony

Sound can be very effective in diesel models. But the only time I've heard convincing sound fitted steam locomotive models was gauge one locomotives at a German show. They had the bulk to fit decent size speakers and additionally had large bass speakers underneath the layout,  all synchronised together with some clever electronics. 4mm and even 7mm lack the depth of sound of a real steam engine and sound rather toy like. I'm reminded of triang syncrosound with its bit of soundpaper and a brass wiper.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

Hi Tony,

They range from £185 (12v), £295 (DCC Sound equipped) up to £345 (DCC Sound equipped & "stay-alive" capacitors) - assuming 00 Gauge (EM & P4 are slightly dearer)

HTH

Kind Regards

Brian

Thanks Brian,

 

That makes them more expensive than other RTR equivalents, but you get what you pay for.

 

Having been 'corrected' in my not remembering having seen one before, it can't have made much of an impression on me. That, or the faculties just crumble more and more............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, Hollar said:

I agree with you in general, but the sound chip in the Sutton Class 24  is a startling confirmation of what can be done - easily the best UK RTR loco I've seen.

 

Tony

I'd cite the Locoman A4 project as the definitive - so far - example of what can be achieved with DCC sound in a 'steam' loco.

 

The majority of what makes models realistic is in the imagination of the viewer or operator - therefore what we need is a minimisation of the distractions that remind us that we are watching electric motored mechanical toys. Suspension of disbelieve they call it in the theatre. This is what makes Little Bytham such good layout - there are very very few such distractions. 

[t-b-g]

It is one of those strange things that I spend time and effort on trying not to recreate what happened on the real thing.

 

Real trains did indeed bump and lurch through points, sometimes alarmingly. Coming into Platform 8 at Doncaster from Sheffield there was a particularly bad lurch just as you passed South Box. Regulars stayed in their seats or held onto a handrail, while those not expecting it and already walking to the doors would be caught off guard and I saw more than one passenger sent sprawling as they had cases in both hands and no free hand to grab a support with.

 

Yet my aim in building models has always been smooth running, with trains gliding through points and crossings with no clicks or bumps.

 

When I was building the points for the model of Doncaster, I discussed it with John and I did build in a dog-leg, so hopefully the DMUs will lurch a bit but stay on the track (one day).

[PMP]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Graeme,

 

I'm sure many will make comparisons between different models: I do.

 

I think the comparison(s) with regard to J50s I'd make are these. What's the price? If an RTR equivalent is accurate and represents an actual, individual J50, complete with correct details, and is considerably cheaper than a kit-built alternative, and if one wanted a J50 (or several), then that's hard not to recommend). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

The Hornby version I reviewed https://albionyard.com/2015/12/28/r3325-Hornby-j50-review/ was excellent in terms of fidelity to prototype, running qualities and price. That’s when it comes down to personal preferences between scratch/kit built vs RTR or hybrid.

[Steamport Southport]

It's that the J50s were built down to a price that slightly irks me. Look at the rear bunker and it's moulded lamp irons for example. Pretty poor for a modern RTR model IMHO. Before anyone say's "do some modelling" it's on the to do list. 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklistdatabase/98118/hornby_r3325_class_j50_4_0_6_0t_68987_in_br_black_with_early_emblem/stockdetail.aspx

 

Yes it's much better than my old Lima model and certainly better than the K's version that I still have on the card backed packaging waiting for a High Level chassis, I understand that's for "wider gauges" EM/P4 only though. So I might build it as an experiment in EM.

 

https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/product-page/lner-j50

 

But I feel they missed an opportunity not to have made a model to 21st Century standards. No wonder they ended up in the bargain bins for £49 which is what I paid for mine.

 

 

Jason

[Andy Hayter]

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

 

 

Apologies for returning to that Stirling 0-6-0 and Robinson A5 tank engine already seen on here, but having found that the video facility on another camera I have was better in some ways for the job, I've tried to produce something to make up for some of the shortcomings in the very low -resolution video I posted yesterday. As this camera has no facility to pause during  filming without producing a new file for each take, and I haven't the faintest idea of how to link up a series of clips, I could not replicate yesterday's scenes, but I hope that my result may help to demonstrate the ability of the models to start, stop and run slowly in a controllable way. As you'll see this camera isn't good for the closest shots, and I've had to film one-handed while also controlling the locos, setting points and operating switches with the other hand, but this is the best I can do without making it into a major task:

 

Remember to use the Youtube settings to get 1080p playback.

The annoying squeaking from the Stirling 0-6-0 has since been traced and eliminated, one of the phosphor bronze pick-up wires in the tender being the culprit...

 

 

For my part, apologies for showing excellent modelling are never required.

[PMP]

19 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

It's that the J50s were built down to a price that slightly irks me. Look at the rear bunker and it's moulded lamp irons for example. Pretty poor for a modern RTR model IMHO. Before anyone say's "do some modelling" it's on the to do list. 

(snip)

 

But I feel they missed an opportunity not to have made a model to 21st Century standards. No wonder they ended up in the bargain bins for £49 which is what I paid for mine.

 

 

Jason

The only thing ‘wrong’ with Hornbys J50 is those three molded lamp irons. The rest of it is accurate and certainly meets ‘21st Century Standards’. 

[PMP]

On the subject of sound and model railways, this past week I’ve been helping out with Heaton Lodge Junction .  In the market hall environment the DCC sound in both diesel and steam prototypes is coming across really well, (O gauge allowing decent sized speakers).

The general public and the enthusiasts I’ve spoken to are really liking them.

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, Atso said:

 

I've also been busy designing another couple of carriages.

 

 

 

A Gresley ex-GNR Dia. 46 65'6" Restaurant First body which is just awaiting the final few details. This one will be paired with a Pantry Third of similar outline in due course.

 

 

Oh, so you make me trawl all sorts of resources to try and find what diagram the Restaurant is in Facebook but just tell everyone on here

 

Fantastic work and hard to believe it's all in N.

[Atso]

7 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

Oh, so you make me trawl all sorts of resources to try and find what diagram the Restaurant is in Facebook but just tell everyone on here

 

Fantastic work and hard to believe it's all in N.

 To be fair, I figured that once you'd worked it out elsewhere, it wasn't worth trying that again due to the cross pollination of members. Besides, I had to work it out from the running number in the CWB! 

 

Besides, I've not see the answer to what formation I'm modelling yet on the other site! 

 

Many thanks for your kind words.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Atso

[Bucoops]

26 minutes ago, Atso said:

 To be fair, I figured that once you'd worked it out elsewhere, it wasn't worth trying that again due to the cross pollination of members. Besides, I had to work it out from the running number in the CWB! 

 

Besides, I've not see the answer to what formation I'm modelling yet on the other site! 

 

Many thanks for your kind words.

 

It was a very tongue in cheek comment - I enjoyed the challenge. I still have no idea what train they are intended for. I assume ECML and that's way outside my (limited) knowledge

 

[jwealleans]

 

 

Snap!

 

Mine's a little older...

 

 

... and needs a lot more detail adding.