Wright writes.....

[jwealleans]

Tom,

 

I'm sure Tony can give you chapter and verse on how to put a DJH A1 together but there's also a very good article by Steve Barnfield in MRJ 52 on doing so.

[grob1234]

Tom,I'm sure Tony can give you chapter and verse on how to put a DJH A1 together but there's also a very good article by Steve Barnfield in MRJ 52 on doing so.

Thank you Jonathan, MRJ 52 duly purchased (buy it now, so I didn't win it) from eBay.

[Mallard60022]

Well before my time, I hasten to add, but weren't one or two A4s used on specials towards the end of steam in the Southern Region? I'm sure I've read or heard Ducky Phil mention them. Mallard would be the obvious one, but I have a feeling there may have been others.

I was amazed to find that there is a website that actually notes the planned special workings from all those years back. I have forgotten what that website is but then I forget most things these days. The other A4 I am aware of that ran down the WOEML  (the proper one, not the secondary route via Swindoom) as far as the Cathedral City of Devon, was Kingfisher in '65 I think it was. Both Mallard and  Kingfisher were admired by the SR crew(s) for their swiftness and comfortable rides  and performed very well from all accounts. Then there was Blue Peter in 1966 that didn't fare quite so well due to rubbish coal and being "a bit run down despite external appearances" and yes I know that is not an A4.

Ducky.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Mallard60022

[jwealleans]

Six Bells Junction?

[bbishop]

There were A4 locomotives (including a sick Mallard) involved in the Locomotive Exchanges and I think V2 locomotives were imported after the Crewkerne incident. Both times on Waterloo to Exeter services. There was talk of transferring LMS Coronation Pacifics when they became redundant on home metals, but there was a tight spot somewhere and nothing came of it. In reality the Southern had enough Jarvis Pacifics to see out steam.

 

I don't know what the restrictions were on the SECR side. Britannias and unrebuilt Channel Packets could use the main boat train route, but significantly the Night Ferry (with a multitude of possible routings) was hauled by an unrebuilt Light Pacific with a 4-4-0 pilot.

 

As an aside, even now the Wessex electrics (class 442) are not allowed into one of the platforms at Waterloo.

 

Bill

Edited February 20, 2017 by bbishop

[The Stationmaster]

I was amazed to find that there is a website that actually notes the planned special workings from all those years back. I have forgotten what that website is but then I forget most things these days. The other A4 I am aware of that ran down the WOEML  (the proper one, not the secondary route via Swindoom) as far as the Cathedral City of Devon, was Kingfisher in '65 I think it was. Both Mallard and  Kingfisher were admired for their swiftness and comfortable rides by the SR crew(s) and performed very well from all accounts. Then there was Blue Peter in 1966 and yes I know that is not an A4.

Ducky.

 

You might be thinking of this one young ducky -

 

 http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk

 

As far as LNER pacifics coming south are concerned the simple answer is just the 1948 Loco Exchange Trials and then a few specials in their final years and even then fairly restricted in the routes they were allowed to work.  Despite having a large number of pacifics when other routes got into trouble for motive power the Eastern's contribution (as noted above) was usually in the form of a V2.  Whereas, strangely - and with far fewer of them - the LMR seems to have been prepared to lend the Western some pacifics when the 'Kings' were hors de combat with cracked bogies.

[thegreenhowards]

Andy,

 

are you intending to build the entire Aberdonian set? what an exciting project. I thought that I may have a screen grab that might be of use. Sadly, as you can see from the image the sleeping cars are not the articulated ones. However, it is still a nice colour representation of the departing Aberdonian in the post-war period. Also included is the locomotive 60502.

 

 

Andrew,

 

Yes I am intending to build the full Aberdonian as at 1956/7 - I like a challenge! It left pretty early (1900) so could reasonably be mixed in with daytime trains and in daylight, so I don't need a full layout of overnight trains. It's only when trying to put together such an overnight service that one realises how limited the current RTR range is. I list below the full service as at 1956/7 (thanks to Robert Carroll's carriage workings).

 

BG (Thompson),

Mk1 BTK(4),

Thompson SLTTP,

61'6" Gresley SLF (as Hornby),

66' Gresley SLF (d.157),

Twin SLC (d.161/2),

Mk1 CK,

2* Mk1 TK,

BG (Gresley or Thompson?),

SLC (D.20 Gresley),

Mk1 BCK,

Gresley D.11 RU.

 

The RU on the end was detached at York, and the SLC and BCK next to it were for Fort William with the rest being for Aberdeen. Of the 14 coach train, six need to be kit built. I have completed the d.157 (see photo below) based on Kirk kits as in Steve Banks' web site write up. The D.20 (Mousa sides on Hornby) is nearly finished and the SLTTP is well on the way. The D.11 restaurant car is a problem as I don't know of any kit for this. I may have a go at bashing a Kirk kit, but for the time being I will use a D.10C.

 

Thanks for your photos, they seem to show a pair of D.157 66ft Gresley sleeping cars - lovely coaches!

 

Andy

[jwealleans]

Where you can't tell a diagram, number of seats can be a giveaway or - if it's a BG as here - look at the tare weight. The LNER CW books give a 'type number' or even a specific vehicle number, I'm assuming the BR ones don't.

[thegreenhowards]

Where you can't tell a diagram, number of seats can be a giveaway or - if it's a BG as here - look at the tare weight. The LNER CW books give a 'type number' or even a specific vehicle number, I'm assuming the BR ones don't.

Thanks Jonathan,

 

I used the number of berths to identify the sleeper types, but, as you say, not possible for the BGs. No type numbers, but both are listed as 29 tons which seems to fit with a Gresley variant. However, I've definitely seen pictures with a Thompson one at the front. I can't lay my hands on the weight of a Thompson BG at present. I suspect, but with no real evidence, that they would have been used interchangeably.

 

Andy

[Mallard60022]

Six Bells Junction?

 

You might be thinking of this one young ducky -

 

 http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk

 

As far as LNER pacifics coming south are concerned the simple answer is just the 1948 Loco Exchange Trials and then a few specials in their final years and even then fairly restricted in the routes they were allowed to work.  Despite having a large number of pacifics when other routes got into trouble for motive power the Eastern's contribution (as noted above) was usually in the form of a V2.  Whereas, strangely - and with far fewer of them - the LMR seems to have been prepared to lend the Western some pacifics when the 'Kings' were hors de combat with cracked bogies.

Thank you gentlemen. That's the one.

An 'excuse' to run a V2 through SJ'n has not gone unnoticed

Somewhere there will be reports of the V2s performances on the WOEML during that axle checking period. I have a picture of the offending Packet that disintegrated at 75+m.p.h. at Crewkerne but did not fall off the Code 100.   How no one was injured at the Station is a mystery other than there were probably no  passengers or staff there at that moment. Parts of what appeared to be brake fittings were deemed responsible for demolishing several platform canopy supports. Serious damage from flying pieces of metal.

Phil

[The Stationmaster]

Thank you gentlemen. That's the one.

An 'excuse' to run a V2 through SJ'n has not gone unnoticed

Somewhere there will be reports of the V2s performances on the WOEML during that axle checking period. I have a picture of the offending Packet that disintegrated at 75+m.p.h. at Crewkerne but did not fall off the Code 100.   How no one was injured at the Station is a mystery other than there were probably no  passengers or staff there at that moment. Parts of what appeared to be brake fittings were deemed responsible for demolishing several platform canopy supports. Serious damage from flying pieces of metal.

Phil

 

There used to be a couple of photos of the results in Crewkerne booking office (the non-public side that is) and one of the staff who was still there in the 1970s remembered the incident quite well although I don't think he was on duty when it happened.

[LNER4479]

 

An 'excuse' to run a V2 through SJ'n has not gone unnoticed

Somewhere there will be reports of the V2s performances on the WOEML during that axle checking period.

"One of the class [V2] was sent out to work the 1100 Waterloo-Exeter 'Atlantic Coast Express' with a GN loco inspector to hand for any help that might be needed. On leaving Waterloo, the SR driver started the engine very gingerly, not at all sure that the engine would get as far as Vauxhall. The GN man glared at him, indicated the regulator and told him to 'pull the thing as far as it would go and to wind the lever well back'. The Nine Elms driver shook his head saying 'It'll never take it, never, never ...'.

'Oh yes it will!', parried the inspector and did it for him. The engine stood up on its legs and proceeded to straighten out every curve between south London and Salisbury."

 

Serious piece of kit, a V2...

[Focalplane]

There used to be a couple of photos of the results in Crewkerne booking office (the non-public side that is) and one of the staff who was still there in the 1970s remembered the incident quite well although I don't think he was on duty when it happened.

 

When I worked in Singapore for an American Oil Company (Cities Service) my boss had, on his office wall, a dramatic photo of a drilling rig that had caught fire offshore Burma.  A visiting Vice President from the Tulsa, OK Head Office saw it and said in no uncertain terms "take that picture down and put it where the sun don't shine".

 

On another occasion I was collecting some processed film and prints in Holland Village, Singapore when the owner approached me with a large print of a Mobil rig that had caught fire on a major gas field in North Sumatra and asked me, in the vernacular, "Would you like buy this, lah?"

 

I declined.  The moral of the story is, I hope, clear, but if not, there's the saying "never s**t on your own doorstep."

[MJI]

Accents, I live about 25 miles from where I grew up, totally different accents and I still have mine.

 

I have lived here slightly longer than where I grew up, still sound like a visitor.

 

However when Rugby is played I prefer the growing up place to win!

[Headstock]

These are great, I had not seen them before, where are they from, please.

Richard

 

Good evening Richard,

 

apologies for not spotting your post sooner, the screen grabs are from a BFI film of steam in Scotland. I did have a link for it but seem to have misplaced it in a vast sub-folder of such stuff. I'm certain that if you have a search of the BFI website it will reveal itself. It's about twenty minutes or so long and is mostly good quality colour footage from the late steam period. Towards the end of the film, there are a couple of gems, including the Aberdonian and also two immaculate B1's double heading the LMS royal train from the same period.

[Headstock]

Andrew,

 

Yes I am intending to build the full Aberdonian as at 1956/7 - I like a challenge! It left pretty early (1900) so could reasonably be mixed in with daytime trains and in daylight, so I don't need a full layout of overnight trains. It's only when trying to put together such an overnight service that one realises how limited the current RTR range is. I list below the full service as at 1956/7 (thanks to Robert Carroll's carriage workings).

 

BG (Thompson),

Mk1 BTK(4),

Thompson SLTTP,

61'6" Gresley SLF (as Hornby),

66' Gresley SLF (d.157),

Twin SLC (d.161/2),

Mk1 CK,

2* Mk1 TK,

BG (Gresley or Thompson?),

SLC (D.20 Gresley),

Mk1 BCK,

Gresley D.11 RU.

 

The RU on the end was detached at York, and the SLC and BCK next to it were for Fort William with the rest being for Aberdeen. Of the 14 coach train, six need to be kit built. I have completed the d.157 (see photo below) based on Kirk kits as in Steve Banks' web site write up. The D.20 (Mousa sides on Hornby) is nearly finished and the SLTTP is well on the way. The D.11 restaurant car is a problem as I don't know of any kit for this. I may have a go at bashing a Kirk kit, but for the time being I will use a D.10C.

 

Thanks for your photos, they seem to show a pair of D.157 66ft Gresley sleeping cars - lovely coaches!

 

Andy

 

Andy,

 

thank you for the reply. What a pleasant surprise to come in and find somebody building trains, you have made my day. I like the idea of modelling overnight trains, in fact, I've done two myself. Actually, they are really easy as once you turn the lights out nobody can tell if you've done any modelling or not.

 

I'm not certain that you even need the RU for the time period you mention. I have quite a bit of stuff that came my way as part of my involvement with LNER PT and F that may be of interest. With the exception of the Marylebone motor-rail service, I didn't have a lot to do with all the ins and outs of the East coast mainline sleepers, so I'm not an expert. However, I don't recall any Restaurant cars in the formation during the late fifties, I think that the dia 11 Restaurant car may have been pre-war, I shall see what I can dig out if it is of help.

[The Johnster]

Well before my time, I hasten to add, but weren't one or two A4s used on specials towards the end of steam in the Southern Region? I'm sure I've read or heard Ducky Phil mention them. Mallard would be the obvious one, but I have a feeling there may have been others.

 

South Western Main Line in early 1967, IIRC 60007 and 4472.

[thegreenhowards]

Andy,

 

thank you for the reply. What a pleasant surprise to come in and find somebody building trains, you have made my day. I like the idea of modelling overnight trains, in fact, I've done two myself. Actually, they are really easy as once you turn the lights out nobody can tell if you've done any modelling or not.

 

I'm not certain that you even need the RU for the time period you mention. I have quite a bit of stuff that came my way as part of my involvement with LNER PT and F that may be of interest. With the exception of the Marylebone motor-rail service, I didn't have a lot to do with all the ins and outs of the East coast mainline sleepers, so I'm not an expert. However, I don't recall any Restaurant cars in the formation during the late fifties, I think that the dia 11 Restaurant car may have been pre-war, I shall see what I can dig out if it is of help.

 

Thanks Andrew,

 

My modelling is not to the same standard as yours, but I love researching train formations and trying to replicate them (i.e. your rule 1!). Anything you can dig out, especially photos, would be much appreciated.  The D.11 is shown in the carriage workings:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7wNtUp2bp_eT2xxclRXWkh1MzQ/view

 

It is also mentioned as being part of the post war train in the Banks/ Carter book. I think the logic was that because this train left so early, a restaurant service was required for evening meals. The D.11 has 30 seats rather than the 18 of a D.10C RF with the extra seats coming at the expense of the attendant's compartment and a smaller pantry. The 30 seats seemed to allow it to function alone rather than needing an SO to provide extra seating. 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[The Johnster]

Accents, I live about 25 miles from where I grew up, totally different accents and I still have mine.

 

I have lived here slightly longer than where I grew up, still sound like a visitor.

 

However when Rugby is played I prefer the growing up place to win!

 

Da Iawn, butti bach!

[Tony Wright]

Tony, do you prefer the Crownline A1 to the DJH one?

 

I just acquired a DJH A1/3 (which will probably be built as an A1) and at first glance the boiler casting looks excellent. The footplate casting doesn't look so good IMHO, so it's interesting that you've used a brass footplate and the DJH boiler.

 

Also, I don't believe it's really possible to have too many A1s. 

Tom,

 

Having built over 20 DJH A1s, that's probably the one I'd go for. My reason for building a Crownline one is that I picked the un-built kit up at Southampton for less than half price. I have, as you can see, though, substituted a DJH smokebox/boiler/firebox for the resin one supplied. 

 

Either kit (and the Pro-Scale one, too) has a much greater 'presence' than an RTR one in my view. When running, because they're made of metal, they 'clatter' most-realistically, and will pull far more than an RTR one. Though the Bachmann model is OK, the thick deflectors, cabsides and tender sides militate against it. The non-lining-up of the rear footplate and tender footplate annoys as well (though I fixed this on the ones I sold), the bogie wheels are poor (I substituted those) and the return crank leans the wrong way on the nearside. 

 

Can one have too many A1s (in BR days). Of course, if you have 50! I have a dozen or so, the most important fact being that (with one exception) I built them. Tony Geary built one.  

[Tony Wright]

I've just received some more of the late john Brown's locos to sell. 

 

I've checked each one out, cleaned and oiled as necessary and they all run well. 

 

 

A DJH C1

 

 

A DJH D6

 

 

A Little Engines D11

 

 

A Gem (I think) D34.

 

 

A Sutherland (I think) F1.

 

 

 

Two DJH J35s. 

 

If anyone is interested in these models, please PM me for a price, please. 

 

All proceeds will be going to a bereaved family. 

[Tony Wright]

Some more of John Brown's locos.

 

 

A SE Finecast K3

 

 

A Nu-Cast (ex-K's) LNWR ROD

 

 

A Little Engines O4/3

 

 

A Nu-Cast (I think) Q2

 

 

A Nu-Cast Sentinel (with a SPUD motor bogie). This is a really lovely model. 

 

Again, anyone interested, please PM me. 

[Headstock]

I've just received some more of the late john Brown's locos to sell. 

 

I've checked each one out, cleaned and oiled as necessary and they all run well. 

 

C1.jpg

 

A DJH C1

 

D6.jpg

 

A DJH D6

 

D11.jpg

 

A Little Engines D11

 

D34.jpg

 

A Gem (I think) D34.

 

F1.jpg

 

A Sutherland (I think) F1.

 

J35 9347.jpg

 

J35 9364.jpg

 

Two DJH J35s. 

 

If anyone is interested in these models, please PM me for a price, please. 

 

All proceeds will be going to a bereaved family. 

 

WOW, oh well, council tax to pay. Back to the old soldering iron and biding my time.

[Headstock]

Thanks Andrew,

 

My modelling is not to the same standard as yours, but I love researching train formations and trying to replicate them (i.e. your rule 1!). Anything you can dig out, especially photos, would be much appreciated.  The D.11 is shown in the carriage workings:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7wNtUp2bp_eT2xxclRXWkh1MzQ/view

 

It is also mentioned as being part of the post war train in the Banks/ Carter book. I think the logic was that because this train left so early, a restaurant service was required for evening meals. The D.11 has 30 seats rather than the 18 of a D.10C RF with the extra seats coming at the expense of the attendant's compartment and a smaller pantry. The 30 seats seemed to allow it to function alone rather than needing an SO to provide extra seating. 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thank's Andy,

 

you saved me a bit of time there. The RU had gone by the summer 1958 season possibly a better time for the maroon livery. However, the formation had changed quite a bit. A batch of three Thompson SLSTP's and two twin SLF's are included, the MK1's had gone walk about replaced by a Thompson CK and 2x TK's but the venerable SLS would seem to be the same. It's a shame your not doing the 1948/49, just look at the catering cars.

[Buhar]

My goodness, what a lovely collection!  John Brown was clearly a skilled modeller and the painting and lining is exquisite.  Wrong company for me, but I hope they find appreciative homes.

 

Edited to say:-

Please note Tony's below comment on John Brown's models a number of which are commission builds.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Buhar