Wright writes.....

[Fat Controller]

 

 

It would have been much better to have been told that most feminine French nouns end in an "e" - yes, I know there are quite a few exceptions - but in everyday modern France to get it right most of the time is, well, almost like being a native.

Even the French struggle with this; there are usually a couple of discussions about this at work every week. What do you expect, though, from a language where the word for part of the female organs is masculine, and the slang term for the male one is feminine.

Nouns with a pair of consonants and an 'e' at the end are feminine; well, apart from 'verre', for a start. And as for lost letters- my adopted village in Beaujolais was known as 'Le Strata' which, over a couple of centuries, has become 'Letra', with a circumflex over the 'e'. At current rates, it'll be known as 'e' in a century.

[raymw]

Ah, that'll be 'e' as in buy gum!

[Andy Hayter]

When I was about 10, I think, I was given a small book to read at school, the story of which was set in post Norman invasion times.  What I remember to this day is the explanation that the Anglo-Saxons (and other serfs) had names for animals while the Norman invaders brought with them the names for the foods that the animals provided.  For example, cows yield beef, pigs provide pork, etc.  I suppose this knowledge was interesting but not particularly useful, so I have remembered it 60 years later.

 

It would have been much better to have been told that most feminine French nouns end in an "e" - yes, I know there are quite a few exceptions - but in everyday modern France to get it right most of the time is, well, almost like being a native.

 

Not sure where "pigs" came from, but the Germanic races kept Schwein - swine.   So yes you get the English separation of meat from animals:

 

porc and Schwein - pork and swine

veau and Kalb - veal and calf

boeuf and Kuh - beef and cow

mouton and Schaefe - mutton and sheep

 

 

A separation I have not found in other languages and perhaps helps explain an British separation of its food and where it comes from - no not Tescos, I mean the animals and the plants in the fields.   

[Clearwater]

In French, cow is "vache" I believe. It appears most languages have a split between the words those who cared for the animals and those who ate them...

 

David

[wagonbasher]

In French, cow is "vache" I believe. It appears most languages have a split between the words those who cared for the animals and those who ate them...

 

David

Does cared for, including those who feed them and fatten them for those that eat them?

 

Andy

[Clearwater]

Does cared for, including those who feed them and fatten them for those that eat them?

 

Andy

Yes

[Tony Wright]

 

Rather than making my brain hurt even more by struggling with the complexities of English (and other languages), I spent a further hour or two today on the Crownline A1. Some might think that, having recently sold three modified Bachmann A1s, why am I building another? Because I've found new homes for the RTR ones and I prefer to make my own, that's why. Anyway, so far, so good. 

 

However, I had Radio 2 on in the workshop and heard something like this............. 'Myself, my Mum and my Dad travelled from Wales today to.....................................'. Where were these folk educated (or probably not educated at all)? Take away the parents and contract 'myself' to 'me' (which is the same in this context) and the person is saying 'Me travelled from Wales today to............'

 

I say again to those who promulgate that rules don't matter with English, they most definitely do. And, had they been taught to the person responsible for this bit of language mangling, then it wouldn't have happened.

 

I might have mentioned this before, but over 60 years ago, every Friday morning, Miss Williams used to give our class a ten-word spelling test. Individuals then used to come out and speak out loud the spellings of the day. It was my turn, and I got 'immediately' wrong. I was publicly shamed, and kept in until I'd learned all the words. From that day forward, as a ten-year old, I resolved that I would never, ever be made to look a fool again with regard to my grasp of spelling.

 

It's a pity later generations weren't taught by the likes of Miss Williams!   

Edited February 19, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Mallard60022]

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi All

 

Everyone seems to be able to point out poor English but no one has said what the two, or is it five words are. The first word has three spellings, all are four letters long, and all three have different meanings but a single pronunciation. One of these spellings is also pronounced in a second way when the meaning is changed, but this second pronunciation has a another spelling and meaning, this time only three letters.

 

Come on guys, what are the words?

 

Hello Tony

 

Do you like A1s?

[davidw]

Crownline A1 02.jpg

 

Rather than making my brain hurt even more by struggling with the complexities of English (and other languages), I spent a further hour or two today on the Crownline A1. Some might think that, having recently sold three modified Bachmann A1s, why am I building another? Because I've found new homes for the RTR ones and I prefer to make my own, that's why. Anyway, so far, so good.

 

However, I had Radio 2 on in the workshop and heard something like this............. 'Myself, my Mum and my Dad travelled from Wales today to.....................................'. Where were these folk educated (or probably not educated at all)? Take away the parents and contract 'myself' to 'me' (which is the same in this context) and the person is saying 'Me travelled from Wales today to............'

 

I say again to those who promulgate that rules don't matter with English, they most definitely do. And, had they been taught to the person responsible for this bit of language mangling, then it wouldn't have happened.

 

I might have mentioned this before, but over 60 years ago, every Friday morning, Miss Williams used to give our class a ten-word spelling test. Individuals then used to come out and speak out loud the spellings of the day. It was my turn, and I got 'immediately' wrong. I was publicly shamed, and kept in until I'd learned all the words. From that day forward, as a ten-year old, I resolved that I would never, ever be made to look a fool again with regard to my grasp of spelling.

 

It's a pity later generations weren't taught by the likes of Miss Williams!

Which A1 will it become Tony?

[Clive Mortimore]

I might have mentioned this before, but over 60 years ago, every Friday morning, Miss Williams used to give our class a ten-word spelling test. Individuals then used to come out and speak out loud the spellings of the day. It was my turn, and I got 'immediately' wrong. I was publicly shamed, and kept in until I'd learned all the words. From that day forward, as a ten-year old, I resolved that I would never, ever be made to look a fool again with regard to my grasp of spelling.

 

It's a pity later generations weren't taught by the likes of Miss Williams!   

Hello Tony

 

I had a teacher like Mrs Williams, I too got my words wrong, and quite often. I was frequently humiliated in front of the class, I was so scared one time I wet myself. Is that good teaching?

 

I never knew why I could not make sense of those 26 symbols that when jumbled up represented so many sounds. As a result of not being able to spell I was not allowed to sit 0 Levels in many of the subjects I was top of the class in. I was so pleased when I saw I had CSE grade 3 for English, I worked really hard for that result. I was not too bothered about grade one in all the other subjects, they were easy.

 

For many years I could not stand up and talk in front of a group of people as I had no confidence. I was well in to my 30s when a speech and language therapist suggested that I might have dyslexia, poor spelling, untidy handwriting, limited written vocabulary compared to my spoken vocabulary, fear of reading aloud but able to retain information regarding the patients that most of my colleagues needed to refer to their written notes. In my 40s when my eldest was assessed and found to be dyslexic with many of the same problems. I got myself checked and yes I am dyslexic. What damage did my teacher who frightened me so much that I urinated myself in front of my classmates, do to me?  

[sp1]

Sorry to go back to dialects- I was born and still live in the 'Black Country' - the local accent is often comically portrayed as something approaching a 'Brummie' accent (even by Lenny Henry, who should know better, as he was born here) which it most definitely is not! I know Tony has some associations with Wolverhampton (which I do not think of as part of the Black Country, although some do) so I hope he forgives this diversion. Due to working in healthcare I come into contact with a lot of elderly people and many of them are amazed that I can tell them where they were born/ lived by their accent - there are variations between towns/ villages only a mile or two apart. I am sure this is true of other parts of the country. Sadly, this is dying out and the 'true' accents (or variations of them) are disappearing.

[Tony Wright]

Hi All

 

Everyone seems to be able to point out poor English but no one has said what the two, or is it five words are. The first word has three spellings, all are four letters long, and all three have different meanings but a single pronunciation. One of these spellings is also pronounced in a second way when the meaning is changed, but this second pronunciation has a another spelling and meaning, this time only three letters.

 

Come on guys, what are the words?

 

Hello Tony

 

Do you like A1s?

Of course I like A1s, Clive.

 

A lot more than trying to work out pointless word riddles. 

[Tony Wright]

Which A1 will it become Tony?

60146, PEREGRINE.

 

I took a picture of this loco at York over 51 years ago. It had just been taken out of service, but still looked in good nick. If my memory serves, it was in company with SILURIAN and BOSWELL. 60145 was in the shed. 

 

I saw her first in the summer of 1958, so it'll be modelled as then. 

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

I had a teacher like Mrs Williams, I too got my words wrong, and quite often. I was frequently humiliated in front of the class, I was so scared one time I wet myself. Is that good teaching?

 

I never knew why I could not make sense of those 26 symbols that when jumbled up represented so many sounds. As a result of not being able to spell I was not allowed to sit 0 Levels in many of the subjects I was top of the class in. I was so pleased when I saw I had CSE grade 3 for English, I worked really hard for that result. I was not too bothered about grade one in all the other subjects, they were easy.

 

For many years I could not stand up and talk in front of a group of people as I had no confidence. I was well in to my 30s when a speech and language therapist suggested that I might have dyslexia, poor spelling, untidy handwriting, limited written vocabulary compared to my spoken vocabulary, fear of reading aloud but able to retain information regarding the patients that most of my colleagues needed to refer to their written notes. In my 40s when my eldest was assessed and found to be dyslexic with many of the same problems. I got myself checked and yes I am dyslexic. What damage did my teacher who frightened me so much that I urinated myself in front of my classmates, do to me?  

Miss Williams never married, Clive. 

 

Your experience is regrettable and it clearly did you harm. It's axiomatic that one style of teaching doesn't fit every situation, and a more sympathetic approach should have been adopted in your case. 

 

I can only speak from personal experience; my Miss Williams did me a power of good by her methods, and I'm forever grateful for her no-nonsense approach and strictness in her teaching. Clearly, your 'Miss Williams' was not good for you. 

 

As for children wetting themselves, I was on dinner duty in Birkenhead some 47 years ago and the older kids were constantly having their lunch interrupted by children from the adjacent infant/junior school. The little oiks would kick open the dining room door and chuck food waste in, then run away. I hatched a plot, and hid just behind the door. As one pushed in, missile at the ready, I grabbed him by the scruff of the neck, lifted him up and strode forwards, only to have the equivalent of a leaking bucket in my hand. I've never let go of anything quicker, as I avoided the splashes, and he scuttled away, literally like a drowned rat! Did it do him any good, or harm? I have no idea, but he didn't muck about at dinner time again. 

 

As for this 'topic' continuing on this thread, I'll not participate any more. It's more important that we concentrate on modelling.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Sorry to go back to dialects- I was born and still live in the 'Black Country' - the local accent is often comically portrayed as something approaching a 'Brummie' accent (even by Lenny Henry, who should know better, as he was born here) which it most definitely is not! I know Tony has some associations with Wolverhampton (which I do not think of as part of the Black Country, although some do) so I hope he forgives this diversion. Due to working in healthcare I come into contact with a lot of elderly people and many of them are amazed that I can tell them where they were born/ lived by their accent - there are variations between towns/ villages only a mile or two apart. I am sure this is true of other parts of the country. Sadly, this is dying out and the 'true' accents (or variations of them) are disappearing.

I knew a guy who could tell which street in Dudley someone came from, merely by listening to their dialect. 

 

I have a very long and happy association with Wolverhampton. My wife is a Wulfrunian, I taught there for nearly 20 years and both my sons were born there. I joined WMRC the year (though not the month) it was formed (1973) and it's been my privilege to be a member ever since. 

 

Now, all that said, I must confess to some real accent 'snobbery'. Having lived near or in Wolverhampton for over 30 years, I'm delighted when folk tell me they don't know where I come from from my accent. I didn't pick up even the slightest 'twang' of a West Midlands accent.

 

I admit it, I'm an 'accent snob'. 

[Andy Hayter]

Hi All

 

Everyone seems to be able to point out poor English but no one has said what the two, or is it five words are. The first word has three spellings, all are four letters long, and all three have different meanings but a single pronunciation. One of these spellings is also pronounced in a second way when the meaning is changed, but this second pronunciation has a another spelling and meaning, this time only three letters.

 

Come on guys, what are the words?

 

Hello Tony

 

Do you like A1s?

 

Pear, pare and pair fits the first criterion, but I cannot see how it could fit the second.

[46256]

Speaking of the Black Country attended the Warley mrc open day at their club rooms in old bury west Mids......excellent attendance...and great to see a giant of our hobby present.....no understatement,.....

 

Lovely people all ...but .....where were the younger modellers? In a way having now entered my seventh decade why worry?....the baby boomer generation having so many advantages..experiencing the memories ..then having the werewithal to translate them into the models of the standard shown on these and other threads...

 

Three models caught my eye for entirely different reasons...the midland 2f fully lined out on the scale Seven layout....the jones goods 460 in highland green as opposed to the preserved and original yellow in 4 mm....and lastly the ho big boy on an American layout...

 

Sincere thanks to all at Warley MRC and the other clubs who keep our hobby going.

[CF MRC]

Thought the headmaster might like to see this; I am very pleased.

 

 

Notice the correct width tender, Tony. I believe 16 carriages was the maximum out of the Cross, but she took 22 round the test track on test. Must be a P2 thing.

 

In answer to 46256's post, the MRC has a thriving younger membership, but these things need nurturing.

http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/youngmrc

However, even on a normal track night I notice quite a few youngsters attending.

 

Tim

Edited February 19, 2017 by CF MRC

[sp1]

I knew a guy who could tell which street in Dudley someone came from, merely by listening to their dialect.

 

I have a very long and happy association with Wolverhampton. My wife is a Wulfrunian, I taught there for nearly 20 years and both my sons were born there. I joined WMRC the year (though not the month) it was formed (1973) and it's been my privilege to be a member ever since.

 

Now, all that said, I must confess to some real accent 'snobbery'. Having lived near or in Wolverhampton for over 30 years, I'm delighted when folk tell me they don't know where I come from from my accent. I didn't pick up even the slightest 'twang' of a West Midlands accent.

 

I admit it, I'm an 'accent snob'.

Interesting. Although I can 'use' a Black Country' accent when it suits (usually when engaging in light hearted banter with elderly patients) I have been told that I don't have a noticeable accent when not doing this. Perhaps this is because I had the opportunity (misfortune?) to attend the local grammar school just as it changed over to the comprehensive system, so I experienced both...but that would be veering into politics so I shall say no more on that.

[richard i]

Accent snobbery is perhaps more common than we'd think.

 

I lived in Yorkshire the majority of my life, but was born in Kent and have lived in the county, as well as East Sussex and Berkshire. Four years or so were spent in York where I suppose I might have adopted a little bit of a lilt but the remainder of my time in Yorkshire was spent in Leeds, and traveling across West Yorkshire. Love the county, love the people, although I am less enamored with the accents, as a whole. I'm always shocked at how thick the accent is when I do go home- it's worlds apart from Estuary English, which has infiltrated the South-East. Where I lived in Ashford used to sound relatively 'okay' and still Kentish, despite the influx of workers from South London in the late sixties and early seventies (my grandparents being amongst them). Ashford sounded like ''South London- but further 'sarf' ''. Now, however, every other person around my age I hear speaking, I feel I need a dictionary or subtitles for their lingo. Urbanization certainly has had an affect on the local dialect and accent. Not that it affects me - I'd just like to be able to understand the bus driver from time to time, whose Mockney accent is so dense I can hardly isolate one word from another...

 

Apparently I have somewhat of a northern 'twang' on a few words or when I get sentimental about home, but I don't seem to have a northern accent at all. My own mother calls me a snob at times; I rang home for my sister's birthday the other day and she (my mother) told me I'd ''gone native'' with my accent. I don't think she's ever been to Hastings properly, there are very few who sound similar to me down here. But then I've found that since I'm still young, and have traveled and lived in several places throughout my life, as well as being surrounded by a cornucopia of accent, dialect and media I haven't settled into any set form other than pronouncing most things the 'southern' way; long 'a' sounds where they are applicable. I still won't say 'shire' like 'sheer' though. It doesn't sound quite right, not to me.

 

Goodness knows where I sound like I'm from- perhaps I ought to ask a linguist...

 

Anyway, back on topic;

 

Tony, were there ever any reports of Eastern Region pacifics making their way down into the south on holiday excursions or long-distance journeys? I was wondering if it might have at all happened. Certainly it happened with the Western Region down into the South-West,but I'm not altogether convinced about the South-East. I doubt they'd be able to make it to Kent or Sussex due to the lightly-laid track and slightly tighter loading gauge, but you never know. Ex-LNER catering stock made its way down here to supplement the existing ex-SR stock in the BR transition period and introduction of MK1s.

 

That A1 kit looks to be coming together rather well, by the way. I'm always amazed by how neat your solder seams look from the outside- but then, I suppose that's rather the point, isn't it?

 

Admiring as always,

 

Alexandra

I too have lived i many places, 36 homes in too many countries to think about right now, it has left me with an accent from nowhere. It does mean i am viewed as an outsider whereever i go. It did also mean i could have picked any company to follow, for some reason i picked the LNER area, who knows why, maybe just all those great locos.

Richard

[Tony Wright]

Accent snobbery is perhaps more common than we'd think.

 

I lived in Yorkshire the majority of my life, but was born in Kent and have lived in the county, as well as East Sussex and Berkshire. Four years or so were spent in York where I suppose I might have adopted a little bit of a lilt but the remainder of my time in Yorkshire was spent in Leeds, and traveling across West Yorkshire. Love the county, love the people, although I am less enamored with the accents, as a whole. I'm always shocked at how thick the accent is when I do go home- it's worlds apart from Estuary English, which has infiltrated the South-East. Where I lived in Ashford used to sound relatively 'okay' and still Kentish, despite the influx of workers from South London in the late sixties and early seventies (my grandparents being amongst them). Ashford sounded like ''South London- but further 'sarf' ''. Now, however, every other person around my age I hear speaking, I feel I need a dictionary or subtitles for their lingo. Urbanization certainly has had an affect on the local dialect and accent. Not that it affects me - I'd just like to be able to understand the bus driver from time to time, whose Mockney accent is so dense I can hardly isolate one word from another...

 

Apparently I have somewhat of a northern 'twang' on a few words or when I get sentimental about home, but I don't seem to have a northern accent at all. My own mother calls me a snob at times; I rang home for my sister's birthday the other day and she (my mother) told me I'd ''gone native'' with my accent. I don't think she's ever been to Hastings properly, there are very few who sound similar to me down here. But then I've found that since I'm still young, and have traveled and lived in several places throughout my life, as well as being surrounded by a cornucopia of accent, dialect and media I haven't settled into any set form other than pronouncing most things the 'southern' way; long 'a' sounds where they are applicable. I still won't say 'shire' like 'sheer' though. It doesn't sound quite right, not to me.

 

Goodness knows where I sound like I'm from- perhaps I ought to ask a linguist...

 

Anyway, back on topic;

 

Tony, were there ever any reports of Eastern Region pacifics making their way down into the south on holiday excursions or long-distance journeys? I was wondering if it might have at all happened. Certainly it happened with the Western Region down into the South-West,but I'm not altogether convinced about the South-East. I doubt they'd be able to make it to Kent or Sussex due to the lightly-laid track and slightly tighter loading gauge, but you never know. Ex-LNER catering stock made its way down here to supplement the existing ex-SR stock in the BR transition period and introduction of MK1s.

 

That A1 kit looks to be coming together rather well, by the way. I'm always amazed by how neat your solder seams look from the outside- but then, I suppose that's rather the point, isn't it?

 

Admiring as always,

 

Alexandra

Good morning Alexandra,

 

Regarding accents, I'm told I'm a good mimic. 

 

Years ago, I played Wackford Squeers in a staff/pupil production of Smike (or, could it be Smyke?), the musical adaptation of Dickens' Nicholas Nickleby. To say I 'played' the brutal headmaster is really incorrect - I just played myself!

 

The part also called for the playing of a contemporary headmaster, for which I just used my normal speaking voice. Squeers, of course, was a Yorkshireman, so, I adopted an accent similar to the members of my paternal family, who all came from God's own country. 

 

After the final show, we had a get together with the pupil participants, their parents, the staff and their families. The father of a lady in my department came from the same, Rother Valley area as my paternal family, and I spoke with him afterwards. He couldn't believe that I wasn't from Yorkshire, and thought me to be rather 'posh' in my normal speaking voice. 

 

I know of no records of ER Pacifics getting to the SE. During the time of the temporary withdrawal of the MNs during the early-'50s, V2s (which were RA9) were loaned to the SR, but no Pacifics. The occasional B1 used to get to the south coast on trains such as pigeon specials from the NER. 

 

Thank you for your comments about my soldering. As I've said before, master soldering and the model railway world is your oyster. If it's never mastered, then one will always be a hostage to fortune. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

600 pages! Who would have thought it? 

 

My most grateful thanks to all those who contribute to this thread, making it so diverse and entertaining. 

Edited February 20, 2017 by Tony Wright

[jwealleans]

Well before my time, I hasten to add, but weren't one or two A4s used on specials towards the end of steam in the Southern Region? I'm sure I've read or heard Ducky Phil mention them. Mallard would be the obvious one, but I have a feeling there may have been others.

[LNER4479]

On the former LSWR route Jonathan yes - but I've not heard of any instances in the South East. Clearances were a bit tight down them parts (a feel 'Sir's stern glare, talking like that!). Must be a bit easier these days as Tornado has been round the 'Garden of England' a few times in the last few years.

 

Congrats on reaching 600 not out, Sir!

[grob1234]

Tony, do you prefer the Crownline A1 to the DJH one?

 

I just acquired a DJH A1/3 (which will probably be built as an A1) and at first glance the boiler casting looks excellent. The footplate casting doesn't look so good IMHO, so it's interesting that you've used a brass footplate and the DJH boiler.

 

Also, I don't believe it's really possible to have too many A1s. 

Edited February 20, 2017 by grob1234