Wright writes.....

[MarkC]

I'm pretty sure southbound trains that stopped at Durham were banked when required from the rear, a G5 being recalled in photos.  Not coupled, as they would drop off at Relly Mill.

G5s were indeed the regular locomotives on that duty, then V3s took over when the G5s disappeared. I believe that Sulzer Type 2s were tried briefly, but the V3s quickly returned until the need for bankers went, with the advent of the full diesel operation of passenger trains.

[The Johnster]

Further to the discusion of Banking Engines/Pilot engines, I don't think it was the practise in the UK, to employ "Mid Train Helpers". Can anyone prove me wrong? Certainly on the H&BRly it was permited to couple two goods trains together and work them as one, I'm sure this practise was not uniquie to the H&BRly.

 

Goods trains coupled together, again allowed where Sectional Appendices permitted, were to save paths rather than provide assistance.  I believe what might be described as mid train helpers were used on the very steeply graded Rhymney/Brecon and Merthyr Joint (actually not joint, there was an end on boundary junction between the two companies at Darren and Deri) for the iron ore trains to Dowlais steelworks.  I am sure I have seen a photo somewhere, don't ask me where, of one hauled by a 56xx, with another 56xx in the middle, and another 2 banking in the rear, all for about 25 wagons!

 

This is not on the scale of the Alleghenies and similar 'helper' operations in the States, but in the confines of the remote and narrow Bargoed Rhymney valley must have looked and sounded just as impressive!

[thegreenhowards]

Morning Andy,

 

its been quite a while since I looked in detail at east coast expresses, being at home today I have the opportunity to do so. If you remember I asked you about a carriage that you identified as possibly a dia 95 or 109 with the vestibule doors inboard of the toilets. With regard to photographic evidence, this type seems to be a consistent part of the formation coupled immediately behind the BG on Northbound workings. This applies to both pre-war photographs and on through the fifties. The BG Is usually one of the dia 45 steel vans then later the standard Thompson design.

 

If sleeping cars are anything like the workings of Restaurant cars, with their higher maintenance requirements, then swap outs and best fits may have been common. I suspect that an exact match to the CWN at any given time may not be possible and would actually create a more realistic depiction. In contrast, the GC workings that I am very familiar with are generally much more efficient at matching the CWN's, even if it may not look that way to the casual observer.

 

As an example of the above, Banks and Carter has a photo on page161 of the Northbound train emerging from Hadley wood tunnel in June 55. Behind the locomotive (A1 Great Eastern) the formation is identified as a Thompson BG and SLT then a 65' 6'' Gresley SLF and other indistinct Gresley carriages.

 

Out of interest, what will be the motive power for your train? Also, what part of the southern end of the East coast mainline are you modelling?

 

Evening Andrew,

 

One of these you mean?!

 

I built these as part of the other sleeper train that I intend to model - The Car Sleeper Limited, which is now just waiting for a new Bachmann BSK to finish it off.

 

Bizarre though this may seem, I think the photos are consistent with the carriage workings! I only have Summer 1956 rather than '55 version, but this shows a different formation during July and August with the Fort William portion running as a separate train and a convertible SLT added behind the BG on the Aberdonian. This is consistent with the picture on p162 dated August '55. The June '55 picture on p161 has a Thompson sleeper as the second vehicle as per the normal booked formation. By this stage the convertible SLT's were generally used as peak strengtheners. I suppose it's not that surprising that many pictures show the SLT at the front as this happened during the Summer holidays when photographers would have been more likely to be active, and it would only be possible to photograph the train in daylight during the Summer months.

 

My current layout is a fictitious location supposed to be somewhere near Welwyn viaduct with a timetable based around the services which would have run through there during the late afternoon and early evening. However, my stock building is focussed on what will be my retirement project - building a scale(ish) model of Kings Cross station. For haulage, I intend to try a Bachmann A1, which I think will cope (with some wheel slip) on my flat layout. I can currently get a well weighted one to haul 14 free rolling coaches. I think it should be one of the roller bearing variety which seemed to be very common on the Aberdonian, but that will have to wait for me to get the time to build a kit. Plan B would be to use my ex John Houlden A2/1, which I'm sure will haul it easily.

 

Which overnight trains are you modelling? Do these run on LSGC?

[Headstock]

Evening Andrew,

 

One of these you mean?!

SLTs.JPG

 

I built these as part of the other sleeper train that I intend to model - The Car Sleeper Limited, which is now just waiting for a new Bachmann BSK to finish it off.

 

Bizarre though this may seem, I think the photos are consistent with the carriage workings! I only have Summer 1956 rather than '55 version, but this shows a different formation during July and August with the Fort William portion running as a separate train and a convertible SLT added behind the BG on the Aberdonian. This is consistent with the picture on p162 dated August '55. The June '55 picture on p161 has a Thompson sleeper as the second vehicle as per the normal booked formation. By this stage the convertible SLT's were generally used as peak strengtheners. I suppose it's not that surprising that many pictures show the SLT at the front as this happened during the Summer holidays when photographers would have been more likely to be active, and it would only be possible to photograph the train in daylight during the Summer months.

 

My current layout is a fictitious location supposed to be somewhere near Welwyn viaduct with a timetable based around the services which would have run through there during the late afternoon and early evening. However, my stock building is focussed on what will be my retirement project - building a scale(ish) model of Kings Cross station. For haulage, I intend to try a Bachmann A1, which I think will cope (with some wheel slip) on my flat layout. I can currently get a well weighted one to haul 14 free rolling coaches. I think it should be one of the roller bearing variety which seemed to be very common on the Aberdonian, but that will have to wait for me to get the time to build a kit. Plan B would be to use my ex John Houlden A2/1, which I'm sure will haul it easily.

 

Which overnight trains are you modelling? Do these run on LSGC?

 

Evening Andy,

 

I had come to the same conclusion that the 'convertible' was probably a strengthener. Partly because of the type of carriage it was and also its location seems to be always between the  BG and the Thompson sleeper. When it is absent the Thompson is marshalled behind the BG. I haven't come across a Mk1 BSK in any photographs so far. Incidentally, the photo on page 162 (is there something in the page number) may show your twin behind the Thompson, interesting that Steve notes the V2 alongside and nothing as regards the actual train. Perhaps it is unclear on the original print. It would be worth seeing the original prints of both the photographs from page 161 and 162.  

 

With regard to motive power, I was curious as regards the change over point. Was it Grantham on the downline? (betrays his ignorance)

 

The overnight workings for LSGC have been running for some years, though I like to tweak them now and again. They are the both express trains conveying van traffic. The 10.35 pm Manchester Marylebone and the 10.13 pm York Bristol. The relevant part for both trains is the formation from Sheffield. The york Bristol train has the GWR carriages attached but can be alternated with the LNER ones if desired.

 

I very much like your Sleepers, a cunning meld of Kik parts with Hornby?

 

Edited because I forgot to add that the trains are modelled circa 1947 and 1949/50 respectively.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Headstock

[thegreenhowards]

Evening Andy,

 

I had come to the same conclusion that the 'convertible' was probably a strengthener. Partly because of the type of carriage it was and also its location seems to be always between the  BG and the Thompson sleeper. When it is absent the Thompson is marshalled behind the BG. I haven't come across a Mk1 BSK in any photographs so far. Incidentally, the photo on page 162 (is there something in the page number) may show your twin behind the Thompson, interesting that Steve notes the V2 alongside and nothing as regards the actual train. Perhaps it is unclear on the original print. It would be worth seeing the original prints of both the photographs from page 161 and 162.  

 

With regard to motive power, I was curious as regards the change over point. Was it Grantham on the downline? (betrays his ignorance)

 

The overnight workings for LSGC have been running for some years, though I like to tweak them now and again. They are the both express trains conveying van traffic. The 10.35 pm Manchester Marylebone and the 10.13 pm York Bristol. The relevant part for both trains is the formation from Sheffield. The york Bristol train has the GWR carriages attached but can be alternated with the LNER ones if desired.

 

I very much like your Sleepers, a cunning meld of Kik parts with Hornby?

 

Edited because I forgot to add that the trains are modelled circa 1947 and 1949/50 respectively.

Morning Andrew,

 

I'm sure I've read somewhere that it was generally a roller bearing A1 on a round trip to/from Newcastle. But I can't remember where! I suspect that it would have changed at Grantham at some periods in the 1950s. Perversely loco diagrams seem more difficult to find than carriage workings, so I tend to rely on photos for the class of engine.

 

Yes the SLFs are Kirk on Hornby, more brutal than cunning I think! The sides are still available from Coopercraft, but not much else!

 

The LSGC overnights look like interesting trains, but they were tough on the GC - no berths!

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Headstock]

Morning Andrew,

 

I'm sure I've read somewhere that it was generally a roller bearing A1 on a round trip to/from Newcastle. But I can't remember where! I suspect that it would have changed at Grantham at some periods in the 1950s. Perversely loco diagrams seem more difficult to find than carriage workings, so I tend to rely on photos for the class of engine.

 

Yes the SLFs are Kirk on Hornby, more brutal than cunning I think! The sides are still available from Coopercraft, but not much else!

 

The LSGC overnights look like interesting trains, but they were tough on the GC - no berths!

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

No berths but well stocked with provisions for the insomniac passengers. The first train to run over the GC that conveyed Sleeping cars post-war was the 'Continental Car Sleeper', it started running between Newcastle and Dover in 1956. Incidentally, I came across a photo of one of the platform staff at KX walking down the side of the Aberdonian selling disposable pillows to passengers in the conventional corridor carriages.

[Headstock]

You're dead right, Andrew. 

 

DJH Austerity and Crownline V2. 

 

Tony,

 

my apologies, I thought I had replied to your post. Nice to know that my eyeballs are still working if not my brain box. I must compliment you (as many have) on your article in MRJ. In particular, thought that the captions were excellent, very informative as regards what was actually in the photographs. With regard to recent photographs of LB posted on the thread, I have noticed a couple of projects under construction, possibly a white metal van up a siding and a Restaurant triplet sitting in the headshunt. Would I be correct? 

[92220]

Dear Tony,

 

I hope that this finds you and Mo both well. It was good to see you both a few weeks ago at the Southampton show.

 

I thought you might be interested to see this, my first full kit built pacific. I shared an early stage of the chassis build. It's had quite a few modifications to make it more accurate, notably around the trailing truck, cab and cab roof, but also with various details. I've left off the lubricators and buffers until it's painted when the weather is warm enough, because the splashers lining will be tough for an amateur like me with them in place.

 

 

Thanks for your help, encouragement and inspiration, without which I might not have started, let alone completed this.

 

I've weighted it, perhaps slightly too much, with lead, and I'm grateful to Mike Edge for his help here too. But it waltzes away with 14 mixed kit and rtr carriages on a curve, so hopefully it will be plenty capable enough when I build Camden Shed mk2.

 

 

 

Next, on with the DJH Black 5.

 

Best wishes,

 

Iain

[jacko]

It was a real pleasure chatting with you yesterday Tony. I've taken your advice and bought a jar of flux and soldered a couple of droppers to the sides of some rails today just to see how things go. Seems to work better than my 'non-fluxed' bottom of the rail variety so I'll be carrying on doing things the 'wright' way.

 

Graeme.  

[Focalplane]

Trust me, solder works better. I have shelved two Just Like The Real Thing coaches because I prefer solder over glue. Grow your finger nails a millimeter or maybe two, it will help. And use the right flux very time. Be pedantic. The reward will come.

[jacko]

Thanks Paul. Maybe a slight misunderstanding - I have been soldering droppers but was telling tony how it can sometimes take ages to heat up enough to melt the solder (with the added risk of melting sleepers). he has recommended using flux (which I wasn't - had flux cored solder instead) and suggested fixing th droppers to side of the rails as it makes future maintenance a lot easier.  A very nice guy - and taller in real life too.

 

Graeme

[chris p bacon]

Thanks Paul. Maybe a slight misunderstanding - I have been soldering droppers but was telling tony how it can sometimes take ages to heat up enough to melt the solder (with the added risk of melting sleepers). he has recommended using flux (which I wasn't - had flux cored solder instead) and suggested fixing th droppers to side of the rails as it makes future maintenance a lot easier.  A very nice guy - and taller in real life too.

 

Graeme

All my 200+ droppers are soldered to the underside of the rail,  it makes it slightly more difficult to lay track but I think it looks much better that way.

 

In the case of my slips there isn't much room to attach to the side anyway so the underside was far easier.

[grob1234]

Dear Tony,

I hope that this finds you and Mo both well. It was good to see you both a few weeks ago at the Southampton show.

I thought you might be interested to see this, my first full kit built pacific. I shared an early stage of the chassis build. It's had quite a few modifications to make it more accurate, notably around the trailing truck, cab and cab roof, but also with various details. I've left off the lubricators and buffers until it's painted when the weather is warm enough, because the splashers lining will be tough for an amateur like me with them in place.

IMG_1339.JPG

Thanks for your help, encouragement and inspiration, without which I might not have started, let alone completed this.

I've weighted it, perhaps slightly too much, with lead, and I'm grateful to Mike Edge for his help here too. But it waltzes away with 14 mixed kit and rtr carriages on a curve, so hopefully it will be plenty capable enough when I build Camden Shed mk2.

https://youtu.be/wwNBoF5Pbf4

https://youtu.be/yXgQk5LIMks

Next, on with the DJH Black 5.

Best wishes,

Iain

Sounds like it runs beautifully. If I get the motion on my first fully coupled loco anywhere near as good as that, I'll be delighted.

[LNER4479]

... it waltzes away with 14 mixed kit and rtr carriages on a curve, so hopefully it will be plenty capable enough when I build Camden Shed mk2.

 

 

Now that's how a Duchess should get away with 14 behind the tender...

 

Fantastic! You must be well chuffed (ha!) with that.

[Guest Brighton_JunctionLNER]

Afternoon all, whilst i was visiting the UK i had the privilege to stay with Tony. We visited Roy Jakcsons 'Retford', here is a short video of that visit. 

Hope you enjoy it. 

Jesse 

 

 

[glo41f]

Jesse

 

Thank you so much for posting the film of Retford. (I was only asking about this a few days back!)  What a system it is and Roy has made a lot of progress since I last saw any pictures of the railway. I cannot but be in awe of such dedication and productivity which has produced an amazing result. A truly wonderful model and one that must surely be in the premier league of model railways of today. It is the embodiment of what I wanted to do 35 years ago when I really started being a modeller as opposed to a toy train buff. I am so glad that someone is able to build the dream!

 

Martin Long

[landscapes]

Afternoon all, whilst i was visiting the UK i had the privilege to stay with Tony. We visited Roy Jakcsons 'Retford', here is a short video of that visit. 

 

Hope you enjoy it. 

 

Jesse 

 

 

 

Hi

 

Wow what an incredible and inspirational layout, watching it was just like being Retford station itself in the 1950's.

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to download it on Tony's thread, very enjoyable.

 

Regards

 

David

[The Stationmaster]

Goods trains coupled together, again allowed where Sectional Appendices permitted, were to save paths rather than provide assistance.  I believe what might be described as mid train helpers were used on the very steeply graded Rhymney/Brecon and Merthyr Joint (actually not joint, there was an end on boundary junction between the two companies at Darren and Deri) for the iron ore trains to Dowlais steelworks.  I am sure I have seen a photo somewhere, don't ask me where, of one hauled by a 56xx, with another 56xx in the middle, and another 2 banking in the rear, all for about 25 wagons!

 

 

 

Sorry to be a bit late to the party but only just had a chance to check the Appendix.  Coupling of freight trains was permitted over that section and the booked normal assistance was two engines in rear so it looks like it was probably two trains coupled - maximum load was either 40 or 38 wagons (Load Class not specified!) varying slightly over the individual sections through which trains running coupled were permitted.

[gr.king]

Afternoon all, whilst i was visiting the UK i had the privilege to stay with Tony. We visited Roy Jakcsons 'Retford', here is a short video of that visit. 

 

Hope you enjoy it. 

 

Jesse 

 

 

 

Starring a couple of leading candidates for next year's Oscars/BAFTAs.

[coachmann]

Starring a couple of leading candidates for next year's Oscars/BAFTAs.

Because the driver was on the left....?  

[CUTLER2579]

We should also thank Roy Jackson for allowing the filming of this lovely layout. I could watch it all evening.

Regards,Derek.

[robertcwp]

We should also thank Roy Jackson for allowing the filming of this lovely layout. I could watch it all evening.

Regards,Derek.

I agree. It's a layout in a class of its own.

[Tony Wright]

Afternoon all, whilst i was visiting the UK i had the privilege to stay with Tony. We visited Roy Jakcsons 'Retford', here is a short video of that visit. 

 

Hope you enjoy it. 

 

Jesse 

 

 

Really well-edited Jesse, my compliments. 

 

One thing the film does show is how well Retford works. I know that's always been Roy's prerequisite, and he's succeeded. I'll be mentioning things working a bit later on in another post. 

 

On the note of editing, do you fancy putting those shots you took with your Go-Pro of Little Bytham on this thread?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

No apologies needed, Andrew.

 

I know (how did I put 'no' in an earlier post?!!!) you regularly post on this thread, so my thanks for what you put, particularly how you help others. 

 

There are two new items representing on-going work on LB in the rolling stock department. The white metal 'van' is actually a cattle wagon, and it's a white metal kit. It came from John Houlden's 'scrap' box as he disposed of Gamston Bank and I have no idea of its provenance or what type of of cattle wagon it represents. I'll take a close-up picture and ask what it is. 

 

The triplet catering set is representative of the 1938 Flying Scotsman ones, but with a standing bar added to the RFO bit, for service in the Northumbrian. Most of it was built by John Houlden as part of our horse-trading. I built the bogies and made it run. I've yet to fix any door furniture, then paint, line, letter, number and glaze it as well as making the interiors. It's made mainly from Rupert Brown's etches, with Comet and MJT bits and pieces. John has done a lovely job. 

 

Out of interest, some years ago (when I had a little more money - and also a little less sense), I was approached by a manufacturer of very highly-priced RTR locos and rolling stock (made in the Far East) and asked if I'd be interested in an ex-'38 FS catering triplet, in BR maroon. I said 'yes' and was supposed to take delivery of it at one Warley Show. Having been assured that 'The greatest care has been taken with regard to accuracy', I think the proprietor was a bit taken aback when I said 'No thank you'. There was no standing bar (one bay was taken by the bar and a window blanked off on the real thing in BR days), the ends were painted maroon, the internal signage was LNER and the trussing came straight out from the solebars, not from behind it. 

 

Horse-trading with John was much more sensible, and accurate! 

[Tony Wright]

Having just returned this afternoon from a most enjoyable three days at the Glasgow Show, may I please thank the organisers of the show and members of the Scottish Association for being so friendly, hospitable, well-organised and so helpful to Mo and me during the event? May I also thank all those with whom I spoke, those who bought the late John Brown's locos and to those who donated so generously to Cancer Research when I was able to fix their ailing locos; or just because I spoke to them or offered advice? 

 

It was a terrific event, with a really broad spectrum of layouts in all scales and gauges, demonstrators and traders. 

 

It was my privilege and pleasure to be invited to judge the Association's layouts. Those visiting layouts from elsewhere were judged by someone else. Though I don't see building model layouts as being necessarily competitive, it is nice to be considered for an award. I don't believe judges should have to give their reasons for choosing layouts (I certainly wasn't required to), but I usually employ a 'tick list' as it were. Though by no means exhaustive, it includes.

 

Even though a layout might not be based on an actual prototype, could it be 'real'? Does the trackplan and layout make 'sense'.

 

How is it presented? Is it well-lit? Are there notices explaining about it, etc?

 

Does it have a sense of place? By that, I mean is the architecture vernacular and/or appropriate for a region being modelled?

 

Is the backscene convincing? Does it recede using aerial perspective to give a real sense of distance? Does everything blend together? 

 

What are the colours like? Too many layouts are far too bright in my view.

 

Are there the correct signals? And, more importantly, do they work properly, particularly semaphores?  

 

Stock. How is it made-up? If it's proprietary, has it been altered/improved. Are lamps present?

 

Do the operators know what they're doing? 

 

How much of the layout is the work of the owner/group? Though the input of professionals should not preclude winning an award, it must be taken into account. 

 

Finally, and I've deliberately left this until last, how does it run?

 

There could be several other considerations, but these are just a few of mine. 

 

My first act was to walk around and just observe all the layouts which were (automatically) entered. I made a shortlist and then returned from time to time to see how things were going. One O Gauge layout was 'counted out' when an operator tried four times to drive a loco over a point set the wrong way! In case folk think I was just finding poor-running layouts, that wasn't the case at all. Most ran really well - especially a Hornby Dublo three-rail system - and some were just plain entertainment for families, with loads of trains whizzing round. There were, as expected, some absolute belters. 

 

 

 

 

When I first looked at Burntisland in P4, I thought to myself 'How can any other layout win?' That was on the Saturday morning. However, though there was no finer example of 'visual' modelling, the running was not up to 'winning' standard I'm afraid. During the four/five separate occasions I visited it, there was always the hand(s) of God needed to re-rail a wagon or give a sticky loco a shove. I know most of the builders and they're fantastic modellers, but if they can't get P4 to work, reliably, what hope is there for 'lesser mortals' like me? The entry in the Guide by the P4 Society just gave the usual impression that with more-accurate standards, better running is 'assured' and that all one needs are gauges and jigs. When will it be mentioned that a much higher standard of modelling ability is needed, too? In fairness, Mostyn (which was a visiting layout) in P4 ran very well when I watched it, though it had the occasional derailment. I think it's fair to say, though, that diesel-outline models in the finest gauge are easier to get to run. It's also fair to say that derailments (a few) were happening on OO Gauge layouts as well. 

 

 

So, I deliberated. In the end, I chose Fairhaven Road, in OO, as the winner.  Though it didn't tick every box (you need lamps on every loco, Archie), the running was impeccable whenever I watched it. Yes, it's DCC, but it was smooth, with no derailments at all. It's also almost all one man's work. Burntisland came second. To many, it must seem absurd that I could pick an OO layout (which was based on prototype practice) over a P4 layout which was a model of an actual place as the winner, but the running was the decider. My thanks to the chaps on Burntisland for letting me take pictures (there are more). 

 

The overall layout winner (every category) went to this incredible model of the Forth Bridge. 

 

 

It's in T Scale, but is still massive. I didn't think much of the running over it to be fair, but that's T Scale I'm told. The units were either stop or go - go fast! 

 

 

For my part, after I'd fled because of my deliberations, I got on with making models, offering tips, fixing duds and generally 'wind-bagging'. 

 

 

 

During quieter moments, I got on with the Crownline A1 and yet another A4. 

 

Finally, it's often the little things which can catch an eye/impress at a show. On setting up on the Thursday, a stand/trader hadn't arrived. The spot was still empty on Friday morning, so the two adjacent stands/neighbours and I just moved things around, filling the space and making it all look really 'designed' that way. The organisers were delighted. Have you been at some other shows and unilaterally moved things about without being told off? 

 

One of our neighbours was Scenic Route Models, a new (and young) firm specialising in laser-cut MDF buildings and architectural features. What a helpful young man - thanks Glenn. 

 

 

I've been told that during the '50s, the stationmaster at LB erected a wooden garage adjacent to the house (should stationmasters need cars?). There are no photographs, just anecdotal evidence. Scenic Route Models does a dinky little wooden garage for just three quid. Here it is, made up (in ten minutes) and installed. Of course, it needs painting, a representation of the roofing felt put on and a bit of weathering, but it fits; perfectly! The firm's e-mail is scenicroutemodels@gmail.com 

 

There is a very wide range available. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Tony Wright