Wright writes.....

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

..."BR Emblem drawing No. DV 97

Required on motor vehicles of multi-unit electric and diesel trains.

Also loco hauled vehicles running in named trains.

This emblem should be placed on the bodyside as near as possible to the centre of the vehicle while preserving the balance of the lettering, etc."...

I can see that this was observed for the horizontal centre, but what determined the vertical centre? The emblem is visibly off centre for rail top to roof top, and wildly low of centre if it is the bodyside alone that is considered.

[Tony Wright]

I can see that this was observed for the horizontal centre, but what determined the vertical centre? The emblem is visibly off centre for rail top to roof top, and wildly low of centre if it is the bodyside alone that is considered.

When the roundel was applied to Gresley teak stock, because of the horizontal beading, it was applied to the lower body panel - thus making it appear very low, though 'wildly' seems a strange description if I may be so bold. From my observations of pictures, the roundel was never applied over the horizontal beading.

 

On steel stock such as Thompson vehicles or Mk.1s, it was applied centrally for the horizontal line (unless the middle doors on, say, a catering vehicle or open car precluded this - then it was applied as near central as possible, though never, as far as I can tell, in a door panel). It was also vertically centralised in the lower body panel, unless it was applied to a 'branded' Thompson car - Kitchen, Restaurant, Sleeping - when it was placed immediately beneath the branding, lower down, though not on the Thompson RFs, when it was to the side. Pages 106 and 107 in the Harris 'bible' on LNER carriages show the typical arrangement on a Thompson Kitchen Car, Restaurant Open Car and Buffet Car. The same 'beneath the description' applies to 'branded' Gresley teak stock In most cases, where the car's status was in the upper panel and the roundel in the lower. A glance at page 52 of Keith Pirt's colour Volume 1 on the ER and NER shows this feature on a Gresley RF. Mk.1s don't seem to have this arrangement - the roundel (if applied) being to the left or right of the branding as appropriate. 

 

I've enclosed some pictures of my stock to illustrate a bit of what I mean. All of these were based on prototype pictures. My apologies for their having been seen before on this thread, but it's pages and pages back. I'll take some more tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

Ooohhh I like that Kitchen Car.

P

[stewartingram]

I do wish we still had real trains like those on the ECML today....

 

Stewart

[Grafarman]

Eastern region coaching stock variations have never previously meant much to me as I model 'the other side' of the country, but I have to say I'm finding all of these exchanges on diagrams, livery explanations and model conversions absolutely fascinating!  What a wealth of knowledge and expertise is being displayed here; I feel privileged to be party to it all...

 

Thank you for sharing...

 

 

David

[Market65]

Hi, the ex-LNER kitchen car has reminded me that many years ago I built the Ian Kirk kit of D.144 in LNER teak. I've found the model, and include an image here if anyone's interested.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[Tony Wright]

Yesterday the weekly mutual working session with Gilbert Barnatt (Great Northern) took place. In terms of horse-trading with my highly-educated friend, thankfully I have not yet needed his expertise in drink driving law. But, yesterday, in terms of modelling he came into his own. So, I assist him by his not burning his fingers and he's been let loose on the scenic work on my trainset.

 

The following pictures show the result's of yesterday's labours. Viewers might remember how this grassy area was featured in BRM some little time ago. Though the grass matt from Gaugemaster was very effective in terms of texture, it was a bit vivid green. So, the 'gardener' got to work and turned it into what you see below. I like the difference in textures and colours between the flatland and the embankment (very realistic in my opinion) and modelling the road, footpath and borders will be next. A full description should appear in BRM in time, but, perhaps, the man himself might like to comment. Many thanks, my friend.  

 

 

 

 

Since PDK kits were mentioned last week, I've taken two more shots of the B16/1 which is now in my possession. They will feature on the firm's website Gallery section. The loco was very well built and painted by Paul Hill, and beautifully weathered by Tom Foster (who used to own it). All I've done is add a crew and fit the correct pattern 12-spoke bogie wheels (Alan Gibson)

 

 

[Miss Prism]

I like the heavily toned down greens (and their differences) for the grass.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

And the nice detail of the trodden down path on the embankment side. Just needs a grey patch alongside it somewhere, caused by Harry's carelessly discarded fag end. I'll just lie in the grass at the top, and watch the Grand Parade of Flamboyant Velocity, which placed this route Miles Beevor all others for interest.

[davidw]

Yesterday the weekly mutual working session with Gilbert Barnatt (Great Northern) took place. In terms of horse-trading with my highly-educated friend, thankfully I have not yet needed his expertise in drink driving law. But, yesterday, in terms of modelling he came into his own. So, I assist him by his not burning his fingers and he's been let loose on the scenic work on my trainset.

 

The following pictures show the result's of yesterday's labours. Viewers might remember how this grassy area was featured in BRM some little time ago. Though the grass matt from Gaugemaster was very effective in terms of texture, it was a bit vivid green. So, the 'gardener' got to work and turned it into what you see below. I like the difference in textures and colours between the flatland and the embankment (very realistic in my opinion) and modelling the road, footpath and borders will be next. A full description should appear in BRM in time, but, perhaps, the man himself might like to comment. Many thanks, my friend.  

 

GB scenics 07.jpg

 

GB scenics 08.jpg

 

GB scenics 09.jpg

 

Since PDK kits were mentioned last week, I've taken two more shots of the B16/1 which is now in my possession. They will feature on the firm's website Gallery section. The loco was very well built and painted by Paul Hill, and beautifully weathered by Tom Foster (who used to own it). All I've done is add a crew and fit the correct pattern 12-spoke bogie wheels (Alan Gibson)

 

PDK B16 1 01.jpg

 

PDK B16 1 02.jpg

 

The layout shots remind me of photo's on one Colin Walker's Twilight on the Eastern volumes - can't remember the exact title. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Eastern Region Steam Twilight, Part One, South of Grantham? Start from p128.

[davidw]

Eastern Region Steam Twilight, Part One, South of Grantham? Start from p128.

Sounds right. Thanks  Paul

[coachmann]

I must be the odd one out here as I thought the embankment has a kind of bleached unfinished appearance. On the other hand the B16 looks a treat.

Edited June 12, 2014 by coachmann

[landscapes]

Yesterday the weekly mutual working session with Gilbert Barnatt (Great Northern) took place. In terms of horse-trading with my highly-educated friend, thankfully I have not yet needed his expertise in drink driving law. But, yesterday, in terms of modelling he came into his own. So, I assist him by his not burning his fingers and he's been let loose on the scenic work on my trainset.

 

The following pictures show the result's of yesterday's labours. Viewers might remember how this grassy area was featured in BRM some little time ago. Though the grass matt from Gaugemaster was very effective in terms of texture, it was a bit vivid green. So, the 'gardener' got to work and turned it into what you see below. I like the difference in textures and colours between the flatland and the embankment (very realistic in my opinion) and modelling the road, footpath and borders will be next. A full description should appear in BRM in time, but, perhaps, the man himself might like to comment. Many thanks, my friend.  

 

GB scenics 07.jpg

 

GB scenics 08.jpg

 

GB scenics 09.jpg

 

Since PDK kits were mentioned last week, I've taken two more shots of the B16/1 which is now in my possession. They will feature on the firm's website Gallery section. The loco was very well built and painted by Paul Hill, and beautifully weathered by Tom Foster (who used to own it). All I've done is add a crew and fit the correct pattern 12-spoke bogie wheels (Alan Gibson)

 

PDK B16 1 01.jpg

 

PDK B16 1 02.jpg

Good afternoon Tony

 

Very nice landscaping it makes your Liitle Bythan look vast.

 

Talking about PDK models following your helpful information I spoke to PDK about the tender height and additional cab roof vents on my A1/2 60509 Waverley and thay have agreed it was a mistake and as I write this reply the model is on it's way back to Cornwall to be altered.

 

Also anther positive today a Hornby A4 arrived by Special delivery this morning.one I purchased as a buy now on EBay .

 

A china built version professionally renumbered and renamed to 60017 Silver Fox completed with brass etched smokebox number and nameplates and silver foxes on each boiler side, also fitted with a speedo cable in mint condition all for the sum of £89.00 including free postage, bargin of the week I thought.

 

Best Regards

 

David

[micklner]

Glad to hear PDK have agreed to correct the A2/1.

[Tony Wright]

I must be the odd one out here as I thought the embankment has a kind of bleached unfinished appearance. On the other hand the B16 looks a treat.

To some extent I'm inclined to agree with you, Larry. 

 

The embankment/cuttings are made up principally of hanging basket liner. Since it was never the intention of the manufacturers of the stuff to make the colour of it non-fugitive, then what's happened over the last six years since most of it's been down has been it's faded a bit. I don't have direct sunlight affecting any colours, but the liner has lost some of its green. It's still work in progress, though, and the intention was never to leave it just as liner.

 

That there should be a difference between rough railway terrain and rough or cultivated adjacent land, I can live with that difference. I was told by the Bytham gang (the last survivor of which sadly died last month) that at least every two summers the embankments/cuttings were control-burnt. I suppose I'm trying to represent the condition of the grass just prior to that - either that or it would be black stubble or fresh summer growth. The geology is limestone, so water would run away quite quickly down the embankment, affecting how lush any growth might be. 

 

 

Taken in the late-autumn of last year, a mile north of my layout's location, even today, with no work ever undertaken to control lineside growth, there is a difference of colour and texture.

 

 

 

This was how I applied the stuff in 2008, and it is a lot greener.

 

 

Taken in 2009, I think it gives a good effect.

 

 

Because of the amount of embankment/cutting to cover, a broad-brush approach had to be taken.

 

 

Again, taken in 2009, the MR/M&GNR bit looks OK to me with the liner.

 

So, what to do? The liner produces a realistic texture, which I'm keen to retain. I've actually tried experimenting with it by applying brighter-coloured powders to certain areas (which seems to work) or I'll borrow my elder son's airbrush and squirt some acrylics at it. Norman Solomon also brush-painted some areas which brought it more to life (the broad brush ends up particularly hairy!), so there's plenty of scope for experiment.

 

Finally, and I know this is a bit of an excuse, because I'm basically indolent, I didn't bother to set up my photographic lights to take the most recent pictures (as I did with the earlier ones). I just set the camera on a tripod, with a four-second exposure at F32 and filled-in by bouncing my remote flash-gun off the ceiling. Looking at the respective angles of the embankment and the white-painted ceiling, I'd say they were pretty much the same, which resulted in the embankment getting a full dose of reflected light. Is that excuse credible? Will it wash? 

 

Anyway, my thanks to those who've commented that the layout is starting to look like Colin Walker's evocative images. Higher praise could not be given, but remember, most of the scenic stuff is not my work. And, what do the pictures look like in monochrome then, because Colin always used that medium? 

 

 

 

 

My thanks to all those who've commented - it enables me to keep in touch with the wider world. 

[landscapes]

To some extent I'm inclined to agree with you, Larry. 

 

The embankment/cuttings are made up principally of hanging basket liner. Since it was never the intention of the manufacturers of the stuff to make the colour of it non-fugitive, then what's happened over the last six years since most of it's been down has been it's faded a bit. I don't have direct sunlight affecting any colours, but the liner has lost some of its green. It's still work in progress, though, and the intention was never to leave it just as liner.

 

That there should be a difference between rough railway terrain and rough or cultivated adjacent land, I can live with that difference. I was told by the Bytham gang (the last survivor of which sadly died last month) that at least every two summers the embankments/cuttings were control-burnt. I suppose I'm trying to represent the condition of the grass just prior to that - either that or it would be black stubble or fresh summer growth. The geology is limestone, so water would run away quite quickly down the embankment, affecting how lush any growth might be. 

 

60009 23 11 13 01.jpg

 

Taken in the late-autumn of last year, a mile north of my layout's location, even today, with no work ever undertaken to control lineside growth, there is a difference of colour and texture.

 

Scenics 16 grassing.jpg

 

This was how I applied the stuff in 2008, and it is a lot greener.

 

Scenics 19 grassing.jpg

 

Taken in 2009, I think it gives a good effect.

 

Scenics 22 grassing.jpg

 

Because of the amount of embankment/cutting to cover, a broad-brush approach had to be taken.

 

Scenics 32 Midland cuttings.jpg

 

Again, taken in 2009, the MR/M&GNR bit looks OK to me with the liner.

 

So, what to do? The liner produces a realistic texture, which I'm keen to retain. I've actually tried experimenting with it by applying brighter-coloured powders to certain areas (which seems to work) or I'll borrow my elder son's airbrush and squirt some acrylics at it. Norman Solomon also brush-painted some areas which brought it more to life (the broad brush ends up particularly hairy!), so there's plenty of scope for experiment.

 

Finally, and I know this is a bit of an excuse, because I'm basically indolent, I didn't bother to set up my photographic lights to take the most recent pictures (as I did with the earlier ones). I just set the camera on a tripod, with a four-second exposure at F32 and filled-in by bouncing my remote flash-gun off the ceiling. Looking at the respective angles of the embankment and the white-painted ceiling, I'd say they were pretty much the same, which resulted in the embankment getting a full dose of reflected light. Is that excuse credible? Will it wash? 

 

Anyway, my thanks to those who've commented that the layout is starting to look like Colin Walker's evocative images. Higher praise could not be given, but remember, most of the scenic stuff is not my work. And, what do the pictures look like in monochrome then, because Colin always used that medium? 

 

GB scenics 07 B&W.jpg

 

GB scenics 08 B&W.jpg

 

GB scenics 09 B&W.jpg

 

My thanks to all those who've commented - it enables me to keep in touch with the wider world. 

 

Hi Tony

 

I recently built a photographic plank following Andy Yorks article in a recent addition of BRM using exactly the same method you used on Little Bythan ie hanging basket liner.

 

I added to this a few layers of static grass in different shades which did bring out the colour a bit more.

 

Photo enclosed.

 

Regards

 

David

[landscapes]

Glad to hear PDK have agreed to correct the A2/1.

Hi micklner

 

Yes they were very good about it no problems just return the loco and they will fix the issues I had.

 

I had to pay the postage but if I get a better looking model bak then It will be well than worth the small cost in my opinion.

 

Regards

 

David

[micklner]

I would imagine that it will be a lot of work to correct , postage will be peanuts in comparison

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Tony, you'll need to burn the sky in a lot more for the full Colin Walker effect....

 

never knowingly over printed, our Colin....

 

(I am a huge fan of his work)

[Guest 2750]

B16 looks stunning.....but I would say that wouldn't I!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I must be the odd one out here as I thought the embankment has a kind of bleached unfinished appearance...

Certainly is bleached and that's what I found so appealing, as it really would go like that in a sustained hot spell; straw like because it is starved of water by the free drainage of the embankment. It looked like that in 1959 which was a scorcher. My Dad went for a job interview in Grantham, and we went train spotting afterwards (I was off school with a throat infection) and can still smell the creosote of the sleepers. (Cannot remember at all what I did while Dad was being interviewed.)

[Tony Wright]

Certainly is bleached and that's what I found so appealing, as it really would go like that in a sustained hot spell; straw like because it is starved of water by the free drainage of the embankment. It looked like that in 1959 which was a scorcher. My Dad went for a job interview in Grantham, and we went train spotting afterwards (I was off school with a throat infection) and can still smell the creosote of the sleepers. (Cannot remember at all what I did while Dad was being interviewed.)

I think the bleached-out effect is what I was seeking, though, as mentioned, it has faded a bit in the last six years. 

 

You're also dead right about 1959 being a scorcher (though my model is set in the summer of 1958 - by summer '59 the MR/M&GNR line was closed and lifted with almost indecent haste between Bourne and South Witham). My principal railway memory of that halcyon summer is watching a huge blaze near Shotton. The usual gang had cycled to Shotton LL to watch trains on both the coast line and the HL line from Hawarden Bridge to Wrexham. John Summers' heavy trains used to be banked from the steelworks, towards Wrexham and one of these train's locos (train engine plus two bankers) must have spat out a spark and ignited the tinder-dry embankment grass, and it just became a terrific conflagration. Exciting, to say the least! Amongst all this, ANZAC went racing by on the main line on its way to Holyhead. What memories............   

[coachmann]

Certainly is bleached and that's what I found so appealing, as it really would go like that in a sustained hot spell; straw like because it is starved of water by the free drainage of the embankment. It looked like that in 1959 which was a scorcher. My Dad went for a job interview in Grantham, and we went train spotting afterwards (I was off school with a throat infection) and can still smell the creosote of the sleepers. (Cannot remember at all what I did while Dad was being interviewed.)

That is what I concluded in the end, and Tony has obviously set his scene towards the end of a hot dry summer although there would be spots of greenery from plants with deep roots. As an aside, I don't recall ever seeing the very familiar blackened embankments modelled by anyone. My favourite scenery will always be May-June, the time of year I love most when you can smell natures brand new carpet in the early morning air and almost drink the fresh air...  

[Mallard60022]

Hate to lower the tone on here (I never do that as you know) but I once prevented a huge conflagration on the Settle and Carlisle at a campsite near Appleby, by getting a crowd to blokes to **** on the initial outburst. It did involve trespass on the embankment but not the running lines of course.

Never seen or likely to see that being modelled? 

Sorry........