RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted December 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2012 ...now I have to electrify the North Cornwall line to Padstow. Seriously I may actually have to touch the third rail. Maybe next year will bring the 4SUB and I shall have to model (or at least build the station and collect the equipment) for Penge East (20th century ancestral home.) It's a moot point to consider that if the SR had managed to get the juice to Padstow and retained control of the lines west of Salisbury then they might have survived just long enough (with the economies that electrics could achieve over steam) to be still with us ....... ....... but as the third rail reached no farther than Pirbright Junction during most of the 2Bil's existence we'll have to invoke Rule 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Well I'm thrilled someone has at last produced the 2 Bil RTR - Yippeee I wasted spent 7 years of my life shuttling back and forth to school in the late 1950's - early 60's, in one (or their ilk...) They really look to be an excellent model. For me they are mostly just fine as they are - I'm an impressionist, when it comes to modelling, look and feel is much more important than 'every rivet accounted for'.... My only wish the electrical pickups came pre-weathered as they never in looked like that in real life - but a bit of very dark grey or black matt paint plus grunge should fix them... So the faithful but erratic bodged up Triang Whatever it was meant to be 2 car Sub can now go into a well deaerved permanent retirement. Thank you Hornby for listening - just don't repeat the VEP fiasco - please! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) Like you, Bill, I always remember the lovely varnished wood inside the BILs. As a youngster I'd stand in the corridor and watch the passing scenery from those huge windows. p.s. I have just been on Hattons site and pre-ordered a BR one! Edited December 18, 2012 by SRman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Having had the opportunity to see it in the flesh I would say the detailing and finishing is on a par with the Bachy EPB (moulded grab-handles and vents etc) which seem to go down well enough with buyers, the decoration on the olive SR unit is exquisite. The initial surprise was the weight packed into the motor car which I would think would comfortably lug 8+ around the flat if anyone wanted to run some unmotored kits with it. The performance was smooth, quiet and capable of a very slow crawl so it'll certainly be of interest as a chassis donor too. Here's a couple more snaps of the final livery sample. If there were a visual criticism it would be that I had to go and check the height of the timber collector guard which looks a bit exaggerated and the wrong angles at the top. Replacing it or a bit of filth should do the job though. Andy, Did you manage to get a clear photograph of the roof? I gather from your presentation of the new Hornby releases Yesterday that one of the aspects of "Design Clever" was to retun to moulded roof vents instead of separate stuck-on pieces. I would be interested to see what difference that makes to the appearance of the model especially as the roof is probably what we see most of as the train runs around our layouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I wonder if the shoe beam (or is that 'height limiting bar'?) is a separate moulding, in which case it may be possible to remove it and file it to a more correct profile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 ....... but as the third rail reached no farther than Pirbright Junction during most of the 2Bil's existence we'll have to invoke Rule 1 Actually It did but only on the Slows & only as far as Sturt Lane Jn (32m 40ch ish) to allow roundies via Ascot. The original 1935 100lb/yd conductor rail is still in daily use. My Rule 1 has permitted their survival to 1979 due to budget reductions delaying the 1972 4-CIG & 1973 4-VEP builds. Will also permit me to run the 4-COR when it appears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted December 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2012 I have just been on Hattons site and pre-ordered a BR one! Ah stuff it - if it's good enough for Jeff .......... ...... and they're not likely to be available (to us VAT-free folk) for £82.50 for long!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I wonder if the shoe beam (or is that 'height limiting bar'?) is a separate moulding, in which case it may be possible to remove it and file it to a more correct profile. We've been here before...................... Everything up to and incuding 4-CEP's have shoebeams due to the fact that the shoegear is directly attached to beam. Hence the MASSIVE size. Everything since 4-CEP's have tiddely little height limiting beams as the shoegear is mounted on a radial arm somewhere near the bogie centreline that pivots. The beam just prevents it going too far when not in contact with the conductor rail. but nice to have to clarify 'cos we've got yet another RTR EMU I see someone's counting rivets already though (thats' got to be a first for EMU models ??).Go and build a better one then and let the rest of us salivate (I refuse to froth )........ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Does anyone know if the Nrm version has yellow ends or not can't tell from the side on view? Does the one in the Nrm have yellow ends, considering pre-order before the price goes up! Cheers Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2012 http://www.semgonlin...ics/rs_2104.jpg This reduction in detail just isn't fair. I presume this is the DCC fitted version? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maxthemapman Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 It will be interesting to see the 'modelling clever' or whatever it is called on the 2-Bil roof, but that is exactly the same approach taken by Bachmann for the roof on the 2EPB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Interesting to look at the SEMG site. Have a look at the buffers on the DTC in the photos near the bottom of this page: http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/2bil_04.html They look different to each other! The more that I look at photos of 2090, I suspect the NRM version will be plain green as the yellow appears to be visible from the sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) 2 BIL's visted Watford Junction on 2 occasions and below is an interesting [photo pof the l latter visit. http://www.flickr.co...49078/lightbox/ I have a 2 BIL Kirk kit the question is do I go ahead and build it now? If i do it will be in BR Blue which I am sure Hornby will produce a version of in the future. The Hormby offeriung really looks a nice unit; with regards to shoebeam height maybe Hornby were allowing clearence for Peco 3rd rail installations? XF Edited December 18, 2012 by Xerces Fobe2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I have a Kirk 2BIL in the drawer, unbuilt! The Hornby unit should have sufficient power to haul an unmotored Kirk unit as well and if they are in different liveries the detail differences between them should be less obvious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted December 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2012 Everything up to and incuding 4-CEP's have shoebeams due to the fact that the shoegear is directly attached to beam. Hence the MASSIVE size. Everything since 4-CEP's have tiddely little height limiting beams as the shoegear is mounted on a radial arm somewhere near the bogie centreline that pivots. The beam just prevents it going too far when not in contact with the conductor rail. Yes, they were always called shoebeams in my day. A saw was kept in the tool-cupboard so they could be sawn off if the shoe were damaged and became out-of-gauge. Conductor rails were/are of course not actually attached to the ceramic insulators, except by Isaac Newton, so tipping one over was rather easier than might be imagined. Later units indeed had the clever cantilever design - with its irritating propensity for simply riding up over ice on the conductor rail with concomitant loss of current and hence traction. Shoebeam-equipped units were more likely to knock the ice off in passing, albeit with a bit of "splashing" (arcing). 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted December 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2012 Yes, they were always called shoebeams in my day. A saw was kept in the tool-cupboard so they could be sawn off if the shoe were damaged and became out-of-gauge. Conductor rails were/are of course not actually attached to the ceramic insulators, except by Isaac Newton, so tipping one over was rather easier than might be imagined. Later units indeed had the clever cantilever design - with its irritating propensity for simply riding up over ice on the conductor rail with concomitant loss of current and hence traction. Shoebeam-equipped units were more likely to knock the ice off in passing, albeit with a bit of "splashing" (arcing). I remember waiting at Whyteleafe station one night back in the early 80's watching the sky light up as the 4EPB made its way from Caterham in the heavy snow! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The size of moulded rivets has been discussed in numerous other topics and represents perhaps as much or as little of an issue as the Bachmann roof ribs on their Mk1 coaches - not ideal but better perhaps than nothing at all. I accept that I can be notoriously Miss Picky at times, but I disagree, Gwiwer. My point is that, for all Hornby's pontificating about 'design-clever' and the need to cut down design time, they've spent a vast amount of time putting surface detail into the 2-BIL that is either grossly-overscale or didn't exist in the first place! Much the same thing can be said for the horrific rivets beloved by Bachmann, Dapol and Heljan around their window surrounds. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) Hi all. Re :- The BR Green liveries When the two Hornby versions are put alongside, you'll notice that the NRM model is lighter in colour. http://www.Hornby.co...-2-car-emu-nrm/ NRM http://www.Hornby.co...l-car-emu-pack/ BR The NRM 2-BIL has, since being at Shildon, been re-painted into, what looks to be, post-war Malachite, or a shade known as 'Electric Green'. One time, produced by Phoenix. This is the colour I remember as a kid, albeit weathered with soot & crud. It used to fade into a shade resembling a greenish Turquoise. You'll also notice that the NRM version carries the oblong shanked, straight sided oval buffers, as originally fitted (See SR version) The BR model carries the heavy-duty, self-contained buffers. On the NRM model, spot the earlier scroll written van weight limit.... I'm not sure about the Coaching stock roundel. I thought that came later. If any crests were applied at that time, it would have been a small 'Lion on wheel' emblem. The 'Cream' 1st. class indication stripe didn't appear until the early / mid Sixties. All the same....Not bad, Hornby,...Not bad, at all. Regards, Frank. Edited December 18, 2012 by Ceptic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 P.S. Did someone mention rivets ? 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Did someone mention rivets? Yes, and no... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Yes, and no... Hmmmmm. I see what you mean, It does look like a porthole on a battleship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 A nice thick coat of green paint should tone those rivets down! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Or a scalpel. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium acg5324 Posted December 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2012 This will take you to all the photos I have that feature 2090.......... http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/search.html?q=2090 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2012 Hi all. Re :- The BR Green liveries When the two Hornby versions are put alongside, you'll notice that the NRM model is lighter in colour. http://www.Hornby.co...-2-car-emu-nrm/ NRM http://www.Hornby.co...l-car-emu-pack/ BR They both look the same to me. Two photographs taken at different times when the lighting was not identical. The earlier green was much lighter and could be clearly distinguished. Besides, both motor coaches have the later BR coach emblem: if one of the units was in the earlier green it would surely have the earlier lion-and-wheel item as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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