Hornby 2 BIL

[Ceptic]

Hi

I thought it might be of interest to some to give a brief note about the 2Bil liveries carried. If more detail is required- ie dates- then shout up and I'll be happy to supply it.

 

GFYE- Those listed in bold italics feature the yellow ends wrapping back as far as the cab door but not including it. The others feature an application of the full yellow end where the yellow is only partially wrapped round as far as the cab/body join line. 2090 in preservation carried 'partial wrapround' full yellow ends. They can be seen here: http://upload.wikime...ks_open_day.jpg

 

2003/05/09/10/11/21/26/28/38/48/50/52/53/55/56/57/58/60/65/74/78/79/83/89/90/93/96

2113/116/121/130/137/141/146/147/150/151

 

BFYE- the full yellow end was also only partially wrapped round as far as the cab/body join line rather than extend as far as the cab doors as on some of the GFYE examples noted above:

 

2016/21/22/24/25/32-34/36/43/52/58/62/64/67/72/75/80/86/90/98/99

2101/103/104/111/112/123/132/133-135/137/139-141/147/149

 

The following all retained GSYP on withdrawal:

2001/02/04/06-08/12-15/17-20/23/27/29-31/35/37/39-42/44-47/49/51/54/59/61/63/66/68-71/73/76/77/81/82/84/85/87/88/91/92/94/95/97

2100/102/105-110/114/115/117-120/122/124-129/131/136/138/142-145/148/152

 

As far as I am aware no 2Bil carried BSYP.

 

I trust the above is useful.

 

Many thanks, Natalie

 

Is there, by any chance, you can go further back ?.

I would be interested to know why the NRM chose to re-paint their 2-BIL in the lighter Green, as opposed to the BR(S) Green with FYEs ?

Compare Andy Y's and Miss Prism's pics of the 2-BIL at Shildon, with other's, and my pics, taken at Woking , when the unit was allowed out.

 

Also raises the question,. Where does one go, these days, to get a sound recording of a SR Emu on the Juice ??

 

Regards, Frank.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Ceptic

[Southernman46]

Hi

I thought it might be of interest to some to give a brief note about the 2Bil liveries carried. If more detail is required- ie dates- then shout up and I'll be happy to supply it.

 

GFYE- Those listed in bold italics feature the yellow ends wrapping back as far as the cab door but not including it. The others feature an application of the full yellow end where the yellow is only partially wrapped round as far as the cab/body join line. 2090 in preservation carried 'partial wrapround' full yellow ends. They can be seen here: http://upload.wikime...ks_open_day.jpg

 

2003/05/09/10/11/21/26/28/38/48/50/52/53/55/56/57/58/60/65/74/78/79/83/89/90/93/96

2113/116/121/130/137/141/146/147/150/151

 

BFYE- the full yellow end was also only partially wrapped round as far as the cab/body join line rather than extend as far as the cab doors as on some of the GFYE examples noted above:

 

2016/21/22/24/25/32-34/36/43/52/58/62/64/67/72/75/80/86/90/98/99

2101/103/104/111/112/123/132/133-135/137/139-141/147/149

 

The following all retained GSYP on withdrawal:

2001/02/04/06-08/12-15/17-20/23/27/29-31/35/37/39-42/44-47/49/51/54/59/61/63/66/68-71/73/76/77/81/82/84/85/87/88/91/92/94/95/97

2100/102/105-110/114/115/117-120/122/124-129/131/136/138/142-145/148/152

 

As far as I am aware no 2Bil carried BSYP.

 

I trust the above is useful.

 

Nah - not enough detail !

 

Amazing - how do you guys know this stuff ?

[Matabiau]

Having had the opportunity to see it in the flesh I would say the detailing and finishing is on a par with the Bachy EPB (moulded grab-handles and vents etc) which seem to go down well enough with buyers, the decoration on the olive SR unit is exquisite. The initial surprise was the weight packed into the motor car which I would think would comfortably lug 8+ around the flat if anyone wanted to run some unmotored kits with it. The performance was smooth, quiet and capable of a very slow crawl so it'll certainly be of interest as a chassis donor too.

 

Here's a couple more snaps of the final livery sample.

 

 

 

If there were a visual criticism it would be that I had to go and check the height of the timber collector guard which looks a bit exaggerated and the wrong angles at the top.

 

 

Replacing it or a bit of filth should do the job though.

 

The roof vents on my Bachmann EPBs aren't moulded, they are definitely separate items stuck on. The door handles are all moulded and the remaining roof detail though.

[Gwiwer]

Natalie's records accord very closely with my own memory as I noted about 30 Bil units made it into blue and 38 appear on the list. As Natalie states no Bil ever carried BSYP.

 

Tigermot's description of the procession through Fratton in 1969 is evocative. I suspect however that the "Gri" units where plates were being washed up were actually 4Res units at that time.

[Andy Y]

The roof vents on my Bachmann EPBs aren't moulded, they are definitely separate items stuck on. The door handles are all moulded and the remaining roof detail though.

 

A fair correction.

 

[Tigermoth]

On 19/12/2012 at 21:37, Gwiwer said:

Natalie's records accord very closely with my own memory as I noted about 30 Bil units made it into blue and 38 appear on the list. As Natalie states no Bil ever carried BSYP.

 

Tigermot's description of the procession through Fratton in 1969 is evocative. I suspect however that the "Gri" units where plates were being washed up were actually 4Res units at that time.

For the interior the term i was looking for at the time has now come back and that is "art deco". As for being evocative how about the seat cushions that one just disapeared into complete with folding armrests, not forgetting the thick carpets .

Edited December 21, 2020 by Tigermoth

[Oldddudders]

Tigermot's description of the procession through Fratton in 1969 is evocative. I suspect however that the "Gri" units where plates were being washed up were actually 4Res units at that time.

I thought all the RES vehicles had been withdrawn in early 1964?

[Tigermoth]

I thought all the RES vehicles had been withdrawn in early 1964?

Wasn't there just a change of name, in anycase i shall stay with GRI if only for the smell of roast beef !http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_404 Edited December 19, 2012 by Tigermoth

[Ceptic]

They really are the same green! Look at the illustrations in Hornby's own announcement:

 

 

 

One difference I've noticed is there's no "I" on the doors to identify first-class on the NRM version.

 

I've pre-ordered one of each so when I get them I'll be able to give a definitive response!

 

2134, still. looks darker, to me.... If they're both the same colour,... then,... one of 'em's wrong.

As you say, we'll wait and see..

 

All the best for Christmas, .. Ceptic

Edited December 20, 2012 by Ceptic

[Charlie]

...and that is what the lamp tops should look like on a 2 BIL too!

 

Colin

 

Has there been a picture from a similar angle shown anywhere? Can't say I see it being too hard to replicate as moulded rather than separate.

[Xerces Fobe2]

OK let's. give Simon Kholer some Christmas cheer and indicate how many of us are going purchase a 2 BIL and how many

 

I will start 1 green and a BR blue liveried one in 2014 (hint)

 

XF

[dibber25]

I saw them day in, day out, every half hour past home and, as I recall, they were generally tidy and clean but not really smart and rarely shiny unless ex-works. I don't recall dark green. In general, the colour always matched, apart from varying degrees of mattness. Changes were very gradual due to the large number of units - yellow panels came slowly, as did the replacement of whistles with horns (the latter SO much more effective!). Black triangles started to appear somewhat later than yellow panels, I think. BILs and HALs were randomly mixed on the 28 (Waterloo-Reading/Aldershot) which split/joined at Ascot. Peak time services were eight cars, off-peak four cars. I certainly remember the 'Do not clean soot..." notices and I fancy they were the work of the school kids who travelled regularly (the grammar schools for the area were Egham (Strodes) and Camberley, so there was much use of the trains for kids from surrounding towns to get there. I have bagged the job of reviewing the Hornby model when it arrives (possibly next month). The prototype notes are already written.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Re6/6]

. BILs and HALs were randomly mixed on the 28 (Waterloo-Reading/Aldershot) which split/joined at Ascot. Peak time services were eight cars, off-peak four cars.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

I used to travel to school from Egham to London every day in BILs/HALs until the 'Nelsons' took over towards the end. I always used to look out for a 'Tin HAL' on platform 21(IIRC) if there was one in the set. to travel back in as they were much more comfy!

[Xerces Fobe2]

I too rememeber seeing a motley mix of 2BILs and 2HALs at Reading circa 1970 which included post war all steel coaches. They did look somewhat tatty and tired however always held a fascination for me. The 4 CIGs were definatliy an improvement in terms of passenger comfort.

 

XF

[Xerces Fobe2]

Here is a site with some great photos of BILs HALs and other Sourthern EMUs

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/sets/72157603648747922/detail/

 

 

XF

Edited December 19, 2012 by Xerces Fobe2

[Matabiau]

Has there been a picture from a similar angle shown anywhere? Can't say I see it being too hard to replicate as moulded rather than separate.

 

For the uninitiated, could someone explain what "lamptops" are? Would I be correct in guessing that lamptops are a means of supplying electricity to the interior lights by means of a conduit on the roof?

Edited December 20, 2012 by Matabiau

[petee19]

Hornby, can you please consider releasing a pair of dummy cars so that multiple sets can be run.

[Gwiwer]

To amplify the history a little. The 2Bil fleet was built in several batches but basically for later became the Central and later South-Western Divisions of the Southern Region. The Hal fleet was built for the South Eastern and initially for the Maidstone electrification. In SR livery therefore mixed Bil and Hal trains might be considered uncommon or downright incorrect.

 

As the two types were very similar in accommodation, power and style they became more freely mixed under BR (SR) management which then resulted in mixed Bil and Hal formations being seen. They worked widely across the electrified areas of the region but are particularly remembered for stopping trains between Waterloo and Portsmouth via Haslemere, Victoria and Littlehampton / Bognor via Crawley, for the Waterloo - Reading / Aldershot / Alton services and for coastal locals between Portsmouth, Brighton and Hastings (Ore). They also worked the Horsted Keynes - Seaford service and appeared at times on numerous other duties including London - Brighton stoppers although these were more often the preserve of 4Lav units.

 

Two units formed many trains. Some peak hour trains were three units and many off-peak ones just a single unit. Waterloo - Portsmouth / Alton workings split and combined at Woking and Waterloo - Reading / Aldershot trains at Ascot meaning four units would arrive at and depart from London coupled together. Some workings to the Mid Sussex Line detached a portion at Gatwick Airport meaning three or four units would depart from Victoria with the front pair only reaching the Sussex coast. At times only a single 2Bil ran the Mid Sussex stoppers.

 

Many of our layouts can accommodate 4 car trains and two units would thus be a prototypical train in many cases. Having been scared off by the Vep and a little wary after the Brighton Belle didn't quite meet the highest standards (though they're far better than the Vep) I am awaiting knowledgeable reviewers verdicts before committing funds. I would also prefer an SYP version but that's a matter of personal choice.

[Jim104]

Hornby, can you please consider releasing a pair of dummy cars so that multiple sets can be run.

My vote for this as well !

[mattog]

Getting a sound decoder and speaker in there will be a challenge. I'm imagining it'll present the same problems as the Brighton Belle.

[dibber25]

My vote for this as well !

 

I suspect it will be perfectly possible to run two powered sets together without problems. Haven't tried it with Hornby units but I can easily run two Bachmann 4-CEPs and an MLV (That's THREE power units) and they run together beautifully on analog DC (with an ancient H&M controller, too!)

CHRIS LEIGH

Edited December 20, 2012 by dibber25

[Gwiwer]

Hornby 153s run perfectly well paired and even three-up. The Bil should be the same. Difficulties don't usually arise until different brands (with different gear ratios) are coupled together. A 150+153 combination just won't run nicely for that reason. Bil + Cep isn't a permitted combination but I suspect if we tried they would fight each other.

 

The other limitation is the amount of power we input from the controller. In almost all cases there would be more than enough to power two motors on a circuit however.

[Ceptic]

Getting a sound decoder and speaker in there will be a challenge. I'm imagining it'll present the same problems as the Brighton Belle.

 

Simplest & cheapest way would be to fit knurled wheels to the motor bogie, like the old Triang SUB. That way you get the grinding whine and the sparks

[Pendennis]

I saw them day in, day out, every half hour past home and, as I recall, they were generally tidy and clean but not really smart and rarely shiny unless ex-works. I don't recall dark green. In general, the colour always matched, apart from varying degrees of mattness. Changes were very gradual due to the large number of units - yellow panels came slowly, as did the replacement of whistles with horns (the latter SO much more effective!). Black triangles started to appear somewhat later than yellow panels, I think. BILs and HALs were randomly mixed on the 28 (Waterloo-Reading/Aldershot) which split/joined at Ascot. Peak time services were eight cars, off-peak four cars. I certainly remember the 'Do not clean soot..." notices and I fancy they were the work of the school kids who travelled regularly (the grammar schools for the area were Egham (Strodes) and Camberley, so there was much use of the trains for kids from surrounding towns to get there. I have bagged the job of reviewing the Hornby model when it arrives (possibly next month). The prototype notes are already written.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

Thanks for the nostalgia Chris. I went to Strodes [1959-66] but used to travel on the 18 to Weybridge [2-EPBs] and then onto the SW main line. I've no third rail and I model post-war GWR but my BR 2-BIL is on order!!

[10800]

I think the request for a dummy 2BIL is not out of concern for running two or more powered units together but that they would be a bit cheaper and hopefully easily pulled by a powered unit.