Hornby 2 BIL

[BR(S)]

So, enough of this green nonsense let's talk blue. What ones made it into Departmental Service and with what sort of modifications as that will be where any interest in the new 2-BIL will be for me.

 

Thought this was converted from a 2-BIL but has been pointed out below it was converted from a 4-SUB. I'll leave the picture up as it's of interest anyway:

 

 

kent - de-icer 014 gillingham 76 JL by johnmightycat1, on Flickr

 

 

Seen at Lovers Walk, Brighton here: http://www.transport...ages/2BIL-1.htm

 

Edited to correct picture information.

Edited December 19, 2012 by BR(S)

[Southernman46]

Beg to differ Southernman46!

 

The entire 2 BIL chassis units with heavy-duty buffers are identical in all respects to those of the 2 HALs (both 'Tin' and 1st series). The roof profile is identical too. The Branchlines 2 HAL conversion pack is based on a Kirk 2 BIL kit for those very reasons.

 

So, I've got three years' head start before a manufacturer produces either the 4 COR or 4 SUB?!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

I'm surprised - you'd never guess (well I wouldn't) by simply looking at them - think it's the relative uncluttered HAL front that makes them seem totally different..

 

Yes - the BIL is out, so the next RTR release series will be SR 2-HAP, 4-CIG, tin 2-HAL, so please hurry up and build that COR & SUB !!

[The Evil Bus Driver]

So, enough of this green nonsense let's talk blue. What ones made it into Departmental Service and with what sort of modifications as that will be where any interest in the new 2-BIL will be for me.

 

I'm thinking a BFYE version would possibly be a Modelzone overpriced exclusive edition.

[Southernman46]

At least one became a de-icer unit in blue livery:

 

 

Photo from http://www.flickr.co...@N05/5827782791 by johnmightycat1

 

Seen at Lovers Walk, Brighton here: http://www.transport...ages/2BIL-1.htm

 

 

These weren't from BIL's , they were converted in 1957 from 4-SUB's (shame though) - this particular unit and the one behind it (016), are part of my youth much of which was spent at Ingram Road crossing footbridge adjacent these sidings. The 71 is in a row of stored ones that appeared that year.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Southernman46

[SRman]

 

 

At least one became a de-icer unit in blue livery:

 

Seen at Lovers Walk, Brighton here: http://www.transport...ages/2BIL-1.htm

 

Edited to correctly insert BBCode from Flickr

 

Are you sure that was a BIL? It doesn't look right for a BIL but does look more like an ex-SUB motor to me. Happy to be proved wrong, though!

 

EDIT: Ooops! Crossed Southernman's post! Beaten to the draw!

Edited December 19, 2012 by SRman

[Gwiwer]

At least one became a de-icer unit in blue livery:

 

Those were not converted from 2Bil units as noted above. I referred to 1925 suburban motor coaches but those had the bulbous cab fronts and the de-icers (011 - 019 IIRC) were converted from slightly later suburban unit motor coaches (the term 4Sub was not in use at the time) which pre-dated the 2Bils

[BR(S)]

These weren't from BIL's , they were converted in 1957 from 4-SUB's (shame though) - this particular unit and the one behind it (016), are part of my youth much of which was spent at Ingram Road crossing footbridge adjacent these sidings. The 71 is in a row of stored ones that appeared that year.

 

Oops, that'll teach me to pay more attention! Guess I'll have to wait for the late 1980s livery with full yellow ends or justify using a really beaten-up blue version.

 

I'll leave the picture of 014 in place but edit the comment.

[Tigermoth]

Looks like an ex 2 NOL unit to me, but i could well be wrong as they were similar to the early SUBs !

Edited December 19, 2012 by Tigermoth

[Gwiwer]

Reference sources including SEmG (see link) confirm my original posting that the de-icers were converted from 1925 suburban motor coaches. They were not Nol units though resembled them.

 

http://www.semgonlin...isc/dept03.html

 

Of interest is the fact that these units could operate in multiple with Bil and Hal units and in winter often did so creating the sight (often in the late evening) of a passenger train with a de-icer on the back. These were regular diagrams with the de-icers only used as required but kept to a strict timetable to ensure all lines were treated overnight.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Gwiwer

[dibber25]

So, enough of this green nonsense let's talk blue. What ones made it into Departmental Service and with what sort of modifications as that will be where any interest in the new 2-BIL will be for me.

 

Lots of them made it into Rail blue but I'm not sure any entered departmental service, as the newer 'Bulleid' era units were preferred for de-icers etc. In the movie 'Take a Girl Like You' Oliver Reed waits (in his rag-top moggie minor) at Pooley Green level crossing for a blue set on an up Reading to pass.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Tigermoth]

On 19/12/2012 at 13:01, Gwiwer said:

Reference sources including SEmG (see link) confirm my original posting that the de-icers were converted from 1925 suburban motor coaches. They were not Nol units though resembled them.

 

http://www.semgonlin...isc/dept03.html

 

Of interest is the fact that these units could operate in multiple with Bil and Hal units and in winter often did so creating the sight (often in the late evening) of a passenger train with a de-icer on the back. These were regular diagrams with the de-icers only used as required but kept to a strict timetable to ensure all lines were treated overnight.

Quite right and more info on 014 can be found here  http://www.departmentals.com/departmental/70094

Edited December 21, 2020 by Tigermoth

[Xerces Fobe2]

They really are the same green! Look at the illustrations in Hornby's own announcement:

 

 

 

One difference I've noticed is there's no "I" on the doors to identify first-class on the NRM version.

 

I've pre-ordered one of each so when I get them I'll be able to give a definitive response!

 

Looking at photos of the 2BIL+ 4SUB tour at Watford the units appaear to be a malachite green therefore does anyone know how many greens were used on 2 BILs and approxomate dates would be useful as well?

 

XF

[Pixie]

As they have detailed interiors, do many of the droplights have a notice saying "Do not clean soot off the window"? I seem to remember them on the ones I travelled on from Bracknell to Reading!

 

My uncle an his trainspotting posse (who were based at your origin) may well have modified the ones you saw. I think his Birthday present could well be sorted out with this release!

 

Pix

[Gwiwer]

Now that's almost as good as asking how many different kinds of 4Sub were there?

 

I believe officially there were SR olive, malachite and BR (SR) emu green but as with all applications not only did the shade occasionally vary (usually between works rather than from the same location over time) but natural weathering and the varied effects of light render each coat of paint different to the eyes and to the various colour films on which they were recorded. The darker emu green was in use from the early 1960s onwards

 

IIRC once preserved 2090 and 4732 received a shade slightly lighter than the emu green they wore in service and intended to complement the "sunshine" lettering applied to 4732 which would have been worn in its earlier days.

 

The images of 2090 posted in this thread which date from the preservation era bear this out.

 

The Hornby models - based only upon the images we have of them - appear pale for emu green but we haven't seen the production models yet.

[frobisher]

My point is that, for all Hornby's pontificating about 'design-clever' and the need to cut down design time...

 

Erm, it's not about reducing design time but manufacturing/assembly time. Very different things.

[Tigermoth]

I always remembered the BIL/HAL units being dark green but as a comparison the LAV units i saw stored at Michledever seemed even darker. Simply being dirty can give the impression of paint being darker than what it really is.

[Godfrey Glyn]

I did my degree at Portsmouth and in 67-68 we had several lectures in a temporary classroom next to the line leading down to the harbour. I have to admit that I often found invertebrate zoology rather dull and used to watch the 2BILs and other EMUs coming out of Portsmouth and Southsea station. It was that time when they were being repainted from green into blue and they were generally so dirty that at an acute angle you couldn't easily distinguish between blue and green ones in mixed formations until they got quite close and broad on to the classroom. Got the degree but not the numbers!

Godfrey

[Miss Prism]

Although the interiors of these units got very dirty, the exterior BR(S) emu green seemed to wear very well, and generally they did get washed. I hope Hornby can give its green a hint of semi-gloss.

 

It would also be good for unpowered units to be available - BILs often worked doubled- or trebled-up (or more), up trains being joined at places like Ascot. The mainstay of services at Reading South in the early '60s was however a BIL + HAL pairing.

[Guest Belgian]

I trust Hornby will bring out some more realistic third rail track now that they have a number of Southern EMUs in their range - their last three-rail track had a centre pick-up rail and the sleepers were merely printed on!!!

 

JE

[Tigermoth]

On 19/12/2012 at 14:59, Godfrey Glyn said:

I did my degree at Portsmouth and in 67-68 we had several lectures in a temporary classroom next to the line leading down to the harbour. I have to admit that I often found invertebrate zoology rather dull and used to watch the 2BILs and other EMUs coming out of Portsmouth and Southsea station. It was that time when they were being repainted from green into blue and they were generally so dirty that at an acute angle you couldn't easily distinguish between blue and green ones in mixed formations until they got quite close and broad on to the classroom. Got the degree but not the numbers!

Godfrey

At going home time 1969 Fratton would be non-stop HAL/BIL/HAP/EPB/SUB/COR/BUF/GRI/CEP/BIG/CIG/VEP/DEMU etc etc. The COR/GRI/BUF were really something else, the interiors were incredible, really over the top, very arty they were and on the down service in the restaurant car the noise of everyone packing away the plates and the smell of roast beef lingering on.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Tigermoth

[Matabiau]

I trust Hornby will bring out some more realistic third rail track now that they have a number of Southern EMUs in their range - their last three-rail track had a centre pick-up rail and the sleepers were merely printed on!!!

 

JE

 

Peco already make the seats for "add-on" third rail on which you place a length of suitable formed rail. You have to be careful about the height of the rail as it can foul some bogies that protrude downwards including, I believe, Hornby's own class 73.

[BG John]

My uncle an his trainspotting posse (who were based at your origin) may well have modified the ones you saw. I think his Birthday present could well be sorted out with this release!

 

Pix

I used them for going trainspotting at Reading, but was too good to do such things. I just thought it was funny that others had! I thought only well behaved people lived in Bracknell in those days!

[APOLLO]

at least there should not be any more additions to my little pot on the side where I place the flotsam and jetsam of disembodied once-fine detail.

 

Glad I'm not the only one !!. I have a 3 plank wagon at the end of a siding with several small "what's this and what did it fall off" parts stored in it. It gets a bit more filled year on year. !!

 

Brit15

[Guest Belgian]

Peco already make the seats for "add-on" third rail on which you place a length of suitable formed rail. You have to be careful about the height of the rail as it can foul some bogies that protrude downwards including, I believe, Hornby's own class 73.

 

I wasn't being serious, it's just my idea of a little levity at Christmas.

 

JE

[Natalie]

Hi

I thought it might be of interest to some to give a brief note about the 2Bil liveries carried. If more detail is required- ie dates- then shout up and I'll be happy to supply it.

 

GFYE- Those listed in bold italics feature the yellow ends wrapping back as far as the cab door but not including it. The others feature an application of the full yellow end where the yellow is only partially wrapped round as far as the cab/body join line. 2090 in preservation carried 'partial wrapround' full yellow ends. They can be seen here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/2BIL_with_the_4SUB_Ashford_Works_open_day.jpg

 

2003/05/09/10/11/21/26/28/38/48/50/52/53/55/56/57/58/60/65/74/78/79/83/89/90/93/96

2113/116/121/130/137/141/146/147/150/151

 

BFYE- the full yellow end was also only partially wrapped round as far as the cab/body join line rather than extend as far as the cab doors as on some of the GFYE examples noted above:

 

2016/21/22/24/25/32-34/36/43/52/58/62/64/67/72/75/80/86/90/98/99

2101/103/104/111/112/123/132/133-135/137/139-141/147/149

 

The following all retained GSYP on withdrawal:

2001/02/04/06-08/12-15/17-20/23/27/29-31/35/37/39-42/44-47/49/51/54/59/61/63/66/68-71/73/76/77/81/82/84/85/87/88/91/92/94/95/97

2100/102/105-110/114/115/117-120/122/124-129/131/136/138/142-145/148/152

 

As far as I am aware no 2Bil carried BSYP.

 

I trust the above is useful.