Dapol Class 121 and 122 in OO gauge

[owentherail]

Just got my blue grey bubble car out of box!! Got the tear drop affect, came on here to see if it's common and surprise surprise it is. Back to shop it goes tomorrow, should of looked on here first.

[Chris116]

and dare I say it, the limited edition Bedstead and Four Posts (sorry that's what Alan Williams used to call Medstead and Four Marks) done by one of our competitor magazines. (CJL)

Otherwise known as Misty and Four Murks, on a wet, overcast day!

[Oldddudders]

Talking of competitor magazines, I picked up one such en route to my ferry back to France, and it contains a review of the blue-grey bubble. Nary a mention of painting flaws, but the photos just about pick them out, and there is a prototype photo which conspicuously lacks the defects recently discussed. Perhaps, as some ebay sellers will tell you, "the photographs form part of the description".

[dibber25]

Talking of competitor magazines, I picked up one such en route to my ferry back to France, and it contains a review of the blue-grey bubble. Nary a mention of painting flaws, but the photos just about pick them out, and there is a prototype photo which conspicuously lacks the defects recently discussed. Perhaps, as some ebay sellers will tell you, "the photographs form part of the description".

Haven't seen the Rail blue and grey one. I was never keen on that livery although I do have a Lima railcar that I finished in that livery as the Corby railink car with the coats of arms on the sides. (CJL)

[Oldddudders]

Haven't seen the Rail blue and grey one. I was never keen on that livery although I do have a Lima railcar that I finished in that livery as the Corby railink car with the coats of arms on the sides. (CJL)

I have a vague recollection of using that railink, as part of some sort of NSE jolly. And, oddly enough, a few years later, on a Maundy Thursday evening, Chris Green (by then at InterCity) sitting opposite me on an up service from Derby which stopped at Kettering, and reminding him of the brief Kettering passing sequence in Blue Pullman, which I'm sure he had seen. He was reading Alistair Maclean - saying that he had to wind down somehow!

[dibber25]

I have a vague recollection of using that railink, as part of some sort of NSE jolly. And, oddly enough, a few years later, on a Maundy Thursday evening, Chris Green (by then at InterCity) sitting opposite me on an up service from Derby which stopped at Kettering, and reminding him of the brief Kettering passing sequence in Blue Pullman, which I'm sure he had seen. He was reading Alistair Maclean - saying that he had to wind down somehow!

The days when the railway was run by people who knew what they were doing, not foreign conglomerates and bus companies. (CJL)

[adb968008]

I really want one of these blue grey railcars, sadly today I saw them up close at IA in Waterloo and they do look bad when you look at them.

I'm not parting with that much cash only to risk damaging it further trying to fix it.

 

If anyone sees a goodun, give me a PM.

 

On a wider issue, whilst we're all ok with higher Chinese wages leading to higher prices, it does seem that quality is falling across the board from china.. paint issues, glue marks, incorrect tooling pieces inserted and wrong tooling being used... it's affecting all manufacturers more so than I can recall before.

 

Perhaps someone knowledgable living in HK or Guangdong could be hired as an independent consultant to monitor quality on behalf of all the manufacturers and work under NDA accordingly, that way they have a living and the cost could can be spread at an affordable cost by all.

Edited August 3, 2017 by adb968008

[dibber25]

I really want one of these blue grey railcars, sadly today I saw them up close at IA in Waterloo and they do look bad when you look at them.

I'm not parting with that much cash only to risk damaging it further trying to fix it.

 

If anyone sees a goodun, give me a PM.

 

On a wider issue, whilst we're all ok with higher Chinese wages leading to higher prices, it does seem that quality is falling across the board from china.. paint issues, glue marks, incorrect tooling pieces inserted and wrong tooling being used... it's affecting all manufacturers more so than I can recall before.

 

Perhaps someone knowledgable living in HK or Guangdong could be hired as an independent consultant to monitor quality on behalf of all the manufacturers and work under NDA accordingly, that way they have a living and the cost could can be spread at an affordable cost by all.

The manufacturers who avoid these problems do so by making frequent visits to China to keep an eye on every aspect of the production. The majority of products made in China do not require the exacting levels of finish that we expect on our model trains. Over zealous spraying has probably happened because someone was told that he wasn't putting enough paint on. Bachmann have been telling us for years how difficult it is to retain staff (and we know they aren't alone) - particularly after CNY - and that means there's a constant stream of new people who have to learn what's wanted. (CJL)

[Legend]

There is indeed a huge turnover of workers in China despite all attempts to keep them loyal . As Chris says the period after new year is particularly troublesome as many workers return home and just don't come back

 

I feel a little sorry for Dapol , however, looks like the packaging has been causing these tear drops. Just goes to show you've got to keep your eyes on all facets . I bet they thought they had a great model then something trivial like the packaging has had an effect.

 

Any of the mags pick it up?

[dibber25]

There is indeed a huge turnover of workers in China despite all attempts to keep them loyal . As Chris says the period after new year is particularly troublesome as many workers return home and just don't come back

 

I feel a little sorry for Dapol , however, looks like the packaging has been causing these tear drops. Just goes to show you've got to keep your eyes on all facets . I bet they thought they had a great model then something trivial like the packaging has had an effect.

 

Any of the mags pick it up?

Well, I certainly didn't, but I've got two green ones, and the review samples were also green. It only seems to affect the ones with full yellow ends and, having sprayed a few yellow ends in my time, it will be because of the amount of paint that's necessary to get good coverage. It is quite likely that these ends are being sprayed more than once to get the density of yellow. In some instances it has been necessary for a manufacturer to spray a white base coat first but I don't know if Dapol is doing that. (CJL)

[Geoff Endacott]

Maybe Lima were on to something when they made models from yellow plastic and sprayed everything but the ends blue.

 

Geoff Endacott

[The Johnster]

It's got to the point now where I'm looking for the tear drops on prototype photos. 

[Andy W]

Has anyone worked out how to get the green versions to show white lights to the front and no lights at all to the rear yet? If so can they share the information, please?

As mentioned in other posts, in the original green diesel era the red lights at the rear weren't used, an oil tail lamp showing red was used instead. Obviously not using head or tail lights at all is an option, even the front marker lights weren't nearly as bright as those on the model, but it looks odd if the interior lights are on.

[The Johnster]

Marker lights were not particularly bright at all, their purpose being to identify an approaching train (and originally it's class) at night, not to light the area in front of the train so that the driver could see where he was going.  That was not considered necessary as the signals had already informed him that the line was clear at least as far as the next stop signal, and as railways are fenced in the UK there is no reason to worry about anything else being on the track*.  They were just about powerful enough to throw a dim pool of vague glow about half a dozen sleepers ahead.  Headcode panel lights, when they came on the scene, were no brighter, and were improved when the headcodes were dispensed with and the 'domino' bulbs replaced them; these were about the brilliance of a 25 watt household filament bulb!

 

Your marker lights on this or any other model fitted with them should be barely visible in the layout's normal daylight ambient lighting, and almost all the rtr attempts I have ever seen to model this are very much too bright by a very considerable degree, presumably because the manufacturers want to show this off as a 'feature'.  I have little first hand experience of this being a steam age modeller, but a geen, whiskered, bubble car is on the shopping list for Cwmdimbath as a nod to the Bridgend-Treherbert trains, though low down it, so I am following this with some interest.  I would imagine it is possible to paint, or otherwise obscure with something semi opaque that will limit the amount of light going through, behind the lenses of the marker lights, but I would have no idea how to make them directional with the rear reds disabled.  I do not use DCC.

 

You are looking for a dull warm glow not dissimlar to a tea light.  Anything that throws a pool of light in your ambient daylight conditions is way too bright; as I say you should have to look a bit to see that the lamps are lit at all!  Similarly, with interior lighting, a very dull warm glow is what you are after for pre-blue/grey liveried units, and this should not be obvious under your 'daylight' conditions.  I have not seen photos of the Dapol model's interior lighting in action, but rtr norm is, again, too bright for the earlier stock with bulb interior lighting; strip lighting was a lot brighter and cooler.  If this is the case, a warm semi-opaque diffuser of some sort might again be the answer.

 

Incidentally the rear red shades were not used until well into the blue/grey era, the early 80s I believe, so layouts set in the early and mid 70s, possibly later, need to be using oil tail lamps on their dmus.  Southern Region stock with red blinds apart, the first trains I remember to not have oil tail lamps carried were the HSTs, also the first fitted as built with proper headlights, considered necessary for 125mph running at night. I do not know when the requirement for twin red tail lights on passenger trains came into force.

 

 

* There were exceptions, such as the Central Wales line which ran through unfenced open country with suicidal sheep, and the class 120 power twins used here and a number of Pantyfynnon based class 37s were fitted with Lucas car rallying headlights for the purpose.  These were very bright indeed, but white and not the usual led blue of modelled modern loco headlights.

Edited August 4, 2017 by The Johnster

[Gwiwer]

On the subject of marker lights the class 22 and 52 models from the same manufacturer manage to have perfectly prototypical barely-visible markers so why not the bubblecars?

[PaulRhB]

I do not know when the requirement for twin red tail lights on passenger trains came into force.

.

There isn't any requirement for both. The rule book just says where twin lights are fitted they should both be lit where possible. There's no restriction on the train if only one is lit.

Most loco hauled passenger stock still carries a single tail lamp. I guess it's in the specification for new trains simply to provide safety redundancy.

Edited August 4, 2017 by PaulRhB

[No Decorum]

Has anyone worked out how to get the green versions to show white lights to the front and no lights at all to the rear yet? If so can they share the information, please?

As mentioned in other posts, in the original green diesel era the red lights at the rear weren't used, an oil tail lamp showing red was used instead. Obviously not using head or tail lights at all is an option, even the front marker lights weren't nearly as bright as those on the model, but it looks odd if the interior lights are on.

Addenda (I almost keyed “tail pieces”) to the DCC instructions describe the DC switching. Removing the body reveals three switches, which enable the internal lights to be switched off, the van-end lights off and the lights at the other end off. I haven’t tried these out yet but it seems as if they aren’t directional. In other words, if you run van end first, you can turn the tail lights off but if you change direction, the van end, now leading, will have no white lights and the other end will have red tail lights on.

 

The only way to address this is to take the body off again to get at the switches or, more simply, lift the model and turn it round.

 

A suitable decoder allows the DCC user a large range of options in the way that is becoming usual for Dapol.

 

Yet more cunningly concealed switches control the cab lights, enabling these to be front on, rear on (both directional) and off. Finally, the destination blind lamps may be turned off. From the description in the instruction, I suspect that these cannot be on whilst the internal lights are off.

[No Decorum]

There isn't any requirement for both. The rule book just says where twin lights are fitted they should both be lit where possible. There's no restriction on the train if only one is lit.

Most loco hauled passenger stock still carries a single tail lamp. I guess it's in the specification for new trains simply to provide safety redundancy.

Is the current practice not one flashing light or two steady lights?

[dibber25]

On the subject of marker lights the class 22 and 52 models from the same manufacturer manage to have perfectly prototypical barely-visible markers so why not the bubblecars?

I think because the 22 and 52 were criticised for the lights being too dim! (CJL)

[Gwiwer]

I think because the 22 and 52 were criticised for the lights being too dim! (CJL)

Which probably proves the adage that "You're damned if you do and damned if you don't". Those lights are spot on to my mind - almost invisible in daylight and just glowing (as do the headcode lights also) by night. And yes they were criticised - for being right!!!

[PaulRhB]

Is the current practice not one flashing light or two steady lights?

Practice probably but the rule book only requires a single one, steady or flashing, and you only report it if no light at all. I don't know what the standard requires new builds to have now but it's irrelevant to these and actually in operation the rule book is the guide.

The flashing one is variously attributed to better contrast for visibility or battery saving.

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by PaulRhB

[dibber25]

Addenda (I almost keyed “tail pieces”) to the DCC instructions describe the DC switching. Removing the body reveals three switches, which enable the internal lights to be switched off, the van-end lights off and the lights at the other end off. I haven’t tried these out yet but it seems as if they aren’t directional. In other words, if you run van end first, you can turn the tail lights off but if you change direction, the van end, now leading, will have no white lights and the other end will have red tail lights on.

 

The only way to address this is to take the body off again to get at the switches or, more simply, lift the model and turn it round.

 

A suitable decoder allows the DCC user a large range of options in the way that is becoming usual for Dapol.

 

Yet more cunningly concealed switches control the cab lights, enabling these to be front on, rear on (both directional) and off. Finally, the destination blind lamps may be turned off. From the description in the instruction, I suspect that these cannot be on whilst the internal lights are off.

I think you are right. From memory, the destination blinds are simply the outer ends of a light duct from the interior lighting. I've just had a sound kit arrive in the post, so I've another job to do. (CJL)

[The Johnster]

Addenda (I almost keyed “tail pieces”) to the DCC instructions describe the DC switching. Removing the body reveals three switches, which enable the internal lights to be switched off, the van-end lights off and the lights at the other end off. I haven’t tried these out yet but it seems as if they aren’t directional. In other words, if you run van end first, you can turn the tail lights off but if you change direction, the van end, now leading, will have no white lights and the other end will have red tail lights on.

 

The only way to address this is to take the body off again to get at the switches or, more simply, lift the model and turn it round.

 

A suitable decoder allows the DCC user a large range of options in the way that is becoming usual for Dapol.

 

Yet more cunningly concealed switches control the cab lights, enabling these to be front on, rear on (both directional) and off. Finally, the destination blind lamps may be turned off. From the description in the instruction, I suspect that these cannot be on whilst the internal lights are off.

 

That's a pity in a first world problem sort of way, as it means that, for early dmu practice, you cannot simply have directional front marker lights with no lit tail lights at all at the rear, and the only correct way to run the unit on a blt will be to have the lights off, at least if I am reading the situation correctly.  Even on large roundyroundy's, it is in the nature of a bubble car to shuffle in and out of a bay; bad Dapol, naughty Dapol, go and sit on your basket!

 

There may of course be some wiring dodge with diodes and things that could be used, or if the red lights are separate from the white ones and not simply the same leds showing a different colour they can be taken out of circuit, but I would not know how to do the first and both dodges potentially affect the resale value of the model.  The latter point is of little interest to me personally as I am of an age at which I expect my models to outlast me and their disposal someone else's problem, but it is worth mentioning for younger readers. 

 

Being so cheerful as keeps me going...

[cctransuk]

That's a pity in a first world problem sort of way, as it means that, for early dmu practice, you cannot simply have directional front marker lights with no lit tail lights at all at the rear, and the only correct way to run the unit on a blt will be to have the lights off, at least if I am reading the situation correctly.  Even on large roundyroundy's, it is in the nature of a bubble car to shuffle in and out of a bay; bad Dapol, naughty Dapol, go and sit on your basket!

 

There may of course be some wiring dodge with diodes and things that could be used, or if the red lights are separate from the white ones and not simply the same leds showing a different colour they can be taken out of circuit, but I would not know how to do the first and both dodges potentially affect the resale value of the model.  The latter point is of little interest to me personally as I am of an age at which I expect my models to outlast me and their disposal someone else's problem, but it is worth mentioning for younger readers. 

 

Being so cheerful as keeps me going...

 

Switch 'em all off - I will be doing so.

 

Use model oil lamps in the same way that you would with a steam train - swap 'em around as dictated by prototype practice, or just imagine that they're there !!

 

I can't for the life of me understand why some people get so worked up about operational lights - they're almost invariably way too bright, or displaying incorrectly.

 

When I was lineside as a lad, if it was dark enough to notice the lights, it was too dark to read the loco number !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited August 4, 2017 by cctransuk

[dibber25]

Working lights are primarily a selling point - not a detail feature. I recall, as a kid, being captivated by the models that had lights - I think they were probably Trix Twin (the Warship and the Woodhead electric, maybe). I like 'em. I don't give a fig that the red markers on my N gauge 121 shouldn't be on, or the front ones are too bright. Bothering about such things just makes one miserable. Model railways are fun and the lights are part of the fun. And, as John says, if you don't like 'em, you can switch 'em off! The beauty of modelling Canadian is that the locos have lots of lights, they all work, and they are bright - and meant to be so. (CJL)