Hornby P2

[gc4946]

As there are no P2s preserved, how did Hornby get hold of the sounds for these locos?

[250BOB]

From what I understand reading this thread....the Hornby TTS P2 will not produce any sounds whatsoever on DC/Analogue layouts, unlike previous Hornby sound fitted locos, which do emit sounds of sorts on DC.???

 

Can someone confirm this please before a pal of mine buys one, and is then disappointed.

 

Thanks.................Bob

[Hilux5972]

That's correct. The TTS will on produce sound on DCC. One of the drawbacks of it being so cheap

[Colin_McLeod]

Is the valve gear fake and non working?  If so, that seems to be a backward move.

Express Blue. How can you disagree with a question? 

[JSpencer]

In the   Operating and Maintenance Instructions  sheet (REF01-91225) for R3246 TTS it say in the General section

the three-pole motor locomotive runs from a 12 volt DC .In Routine Maintenance / Motor this locomotive

as a life long FIVE-POLE sealed motor. Dose the R 3246 TTS run a three or five pole motor ?.

 

 

                           D.R.M.

It Is a 3 pole motor.

[Steffi_C]

Express Blue. How can you disagree with a question? 

 

I would imagine that it was not your question but your conditional conclusion, "that seems to be a backward move", that prompted the disagreement (and presumably also the 'agree').

[SDJR7F88]

From what I understand reading this thread....the Hornby TTS P2 will not produce any sounds whatsoever on DC/Analogue layouts, unlike previous Hornby sound fitted locos, which do emit sounds of sorts on DC.???

 

Can someone confirm this please before a pal of mine buys one, and is then disappointed.

 

Thanks.................Bob

Sadly it is true and they will not make any sound on DC/Analogue. Was going to do the same as your friend, but though I would ask Hornby first. Which they kindly replied to my question very quickly and explained why it would not work, unlike the top end sound models. 

Think it would make an interesting future product if they do get models like this working on DC...

[gr.king]

[HOTTODDY]

Just going back a bit to the front wheel issues, I did a minor mod to my P2. As I previously stated there is no vertical movement of the main wheel axles.

 

 I removed the keeper plate secured with 5 small screws and saw a visible half-moon shape at the edge of the plate at each axle position. Using this as a guide, I carefully filed a round groove across the top of the plate at the leading driver position.This will allow the axle to move downwards. It is essential to support the keeper plate  to protect the brake shoe/hangers, as the plastic is very hard and requires a bit of pressure using a round needle file to form the required groove.

 

Reassembled, track testing, static at first on perfectly flat surface, I lifted the front end of the loco to see the front drivers fall very slightly, perhaps by about 1/2-1mm. Happy with that I ran the loco normally on my layout and encountered no problems so far.

 

I could have filed the groove more, but the general rules of "a layout is only a good as its track" and "horses for courses", tells me that tortuous curves and rough uneven track is not a natural habitat for a large loco with a long wheelbase. RA9 was its limitations full size, equally applicable (with some model allowances) to this magnificent beast!

 

This was really just a relatively simple exercise to see what can be done and as far as I'm concerned, it worked for me. If you think it it will benefit your loco, then try it, but don't go mad or you may cause other issues. If in doubt, leave it alone and make the track suit your loco.

[Colin_McLeod]

Could any of Kal's friends please explain post no 1832 to him?

[JSpencer]

Earlier I reported that only 4 of the tender wheels had pickups. That was incorrect, all 8 tender wheels have pickups.

 

Tested in DC mode, the loco will run like a normal DC loco (no sound).

 

Here is a peep Inside a TTS P2, the chip could easily be replaced by any other 8 pin DCC chip. Likewise you can use the chip in any other 8 pin loco - quite good for the price really:

[melmerby]

As there are no P2s preserved, how did Hornby get hold of the sounds for these locos?

I would have thought they would be based on Duke of Gloucester, which is not a long way off CotN's specification.

Same size wheels, same number of cylinders, similar (but not the same) valve gear and general size of loco (DoG has 90% the T.E. of CotN)

 

Keith

[Mike70]

Has anyone experienced problems with the main range version R3207 over points and do you think it would benefit from the additional tender pick ups on R3246TTS?

 

I still haven't opened my R3207.  I'm still debating if I should try and get the R3246TTS.

 

In a previous post, somebody mentioned that the space inside the loco is a bit tight for fitting a DCC chip.

Having the chip located in the tender, seems to be another advantage of the TTS version.

 

I bought my R3207 from Hattons for £99.  Rails are advertising R3246TTS for £136.

 

Assuming I could sell R3207 on EBay and cover my costs, an extra £37 for the TTS version seems reasonable.

[teaky]

Has anyone experienced problems with the main range version R3207 over points and do you think it would benefit from the additional tender pick ups on R3246TTS?

 

I still haven't opened my R3207.  I'm still debating if I should try and get the R3246TTS.

 

In a previous post, somebody mentioned that the space inside the loco is a bit tight for fitting a DCC chip.

Having the chip located in the tender, seems to be another advantage of the TTS version.

 

I bought my R3207 from Hattons for £99.  Rails are advertising R3246TTS for £136.

 

Assuming I could sell R3207 on EBay and cover my costs, an extra £37 for the TTS version seems reasonable.

The only place currently available to me to do a test run of my R3207 was on my son's little used and therefore not very clean shelf layout which has Peco set track points with insulated frogs.  I was simply trying to confirm I had a working model but I noticed no hesitation and it very nearly coped with the tight radius.

 

A more thorough test might show up a benefit from extra tender or pony truck pick ups but it isn't something that concerns me at present.

[melmerby]

Has anyone experienced problems with the main range version R3207 over points and do you think it would benefit from the additional tender pick ups on R3246TTS?

 

I still haven't opened my R3207.  I'm still debating if I should try and get the R3246TTS.

 

In a previous post, somebody mentioned that the space inside the loco is a bit tight for fitting a DCC chip.

Having the chip located in the tender, seems to be another advantage of the TTS version.

 

I bought my R3207 from Hattons for £99.  Rails are advertising R3246TTS for £136.

 

Assuming I could sell R3207 on EBay and cover my costs, an extra £37 for the TTS version seems reasonable.

I have had no problems with R3207 over points, but mine are all electrofrog with bonded switch rails, so no electrical gaps.

 

The location of the DCC decoder in the loco seems a little bizarre, considering the TTS version has it in the tender along with the extra loco-tender wiring.

It would also make retrofitting sound a pain for anybody considering it!

I can understand the basic "Railroad" loco having a loco decoder socket, but the enhanced version should IMHO be the same as the TTS version but without the sound.

 

Keith

[mikesndbs]

Mine does stall over my dead frogs, and yes I think tender pickups would be a great idea.

Are spare tender pickups available from Hornby so they can be fitted to the R3207 model?

 

You can see mine being very stubborn in this short video! 

Edited October 5, 2014 by mikesndbs

[melmerby]

Mine does stall over my dead frogs, and yes I think tender pickups would be a great idea.

Are spare tender pickups available from Hornby so they can be fitted to the R3207 model?

 

 

You would then possibly need the plug/socket arrangement used previously

 

Could another LNER tender innards be used?

 

keith

[teaky]

Hi mikesndbs,

 

I assume you have checked that all the pick ups are OK?

 

It seems odd that your loco should stall with one pair of wheels on the dead frog and the other drivers on clear track.

[Legend]

I've got R3207, been running her for a few hours today. No issues over points . I have a few Hornby short points , in my day R612 and R613, and the peco equivalents. No issue with either. She also rides through diamond crossing without any problems. I did away with Hornby Curved points so I can't comment on that. A really nice loco. I'd love to see the Railroad A3 with same level of decoration.

[JSpencer]

Mine does stall over my dead frogs, and yes I think tender pickups would be a great idea.

Are spare tender pickups available from Hornby so they can be fitted to the R3207 model?

 

You can see mine being very stubborn in this short video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe1vN2rKNVI

I have to wonder if all the wheel contacts are actually in contact. I had a similar problem on the shorter wheel base Duke which went away after I cured it.

 

The TTS one is dead smooth on DC control even at low speeds (though motor is a bit more noisy than Bachmann can motors used in the old split chassis), however on DCC, to the naked eye she is smooth, but seems movement is via a series of pulses from the chip since at slow speeds the tender shudders back and forth.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I would have thought they would be based on Duke of Gloucester, which is not a long way off CotN's specification.

Same size wheels, same number of cylinders, similar (but not the same) valve gear and general size of loco (DoG has 90% the T.E. of CotN)...

 And most significantly of all, both are fitted with Kylchap ejectors to the double chimneys. If you hear the difference between the same class with and without the Kylchap ejector, that's way the biggest effect on the 'voice' of the exhaust. At starting for example it's 'whoomph' fropm the Kylchap, 'bark' from a regular blastpipe and simple petticoat. An A4 would also be a good choice: also Kylchap ejector fitted, and the smokebox void and shape closer to that of a P2, the smokebox acting as a resonator.

 

For all that though, I got the impression that TTS was a generated sound effect rather than recording based - but then I may be wildly wrong...

[Market65]

Hi. I've just seen the video, and regarding 2001, when it stalls on that point, the second driving wheel, on this side of the model, is lifted up off the rail. I wonder if, with the points being such a tight radius, the wheels are being forced 'up' off the rails and so the loco' stalls?

 

Also the pick-ups do indeed need to be checked to make sure that they all making proper contact at all times.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[micklner]

Doubt if its designed by Hornby for double heading ?.

 

What does it do when run on its own ? Pick ups is a obvious potential problem as is too tight a radius as already mentioned above.

[mikesndbs]

Hi, just had a good close look.

 

Seems that when she is on that point, while her wheels look like they are in contact in fact they are just hovering above the wing rail, a small screw driver makes the connection and off she goes.

Could be the wing rail is low, but would be handy if there was some suspension on the drivers so they could drop down a little and keep contact.

Still very pleased with her

[melmerby]

 And most significantly of all, both are fitted with Kylchap ejectors to the double chimneys. If you hear the difference between the same class with and without the Kylchap ejector, that's way the biggest effect on the 'voice' of the exhaust. At starting for example it's 'whoomph' fropm the Kylchap, 'bark' from a regular blastpipe and simple petticoat. An A4 would also be a good choice: also Kylchap ejector fitted, and the smokebox void and shape closer to that of a P2, the smokebox acting as a resonator.

 

For all that though, I got the impression that TTS was a generated sound effect rather than recording based - but then I may be wildly wrong...

Yes, thanks, I forgot about the effect of a Kylchap on the exhaust!

 

We'll have to wait until the "real" P2 arrives to see how close (or not) Hornby's sound file is.

 

Keith