Brighton Belle in N !

[Chris Higgs]

It seems very common for models in most of Europe to have a fairly short ordering deadline.  Presumably it allows manufacturers to tailor the number of models they make so that none are "left over".

 

David

 

Corrected the obligatory spelling mistake.

 

Yes, and it also means a number of the German model shops give a good pre-order price so they can bump up the number they order knowing they have customers.

 

Chris

[Steven B]

I'm not sure Dapol would agree with you here considering they have this year announced a raft of N gauge models including, keeping on the Southern theme, Bulleid pacifics (Light Pacifics in both original and rebuilt and Rebuilt Merchant Navy Pacifics) Schools class and a range of Maunsell Coaches...

Mmmm, maybe. Dapol might have anounced a lot but I'm sure there are plenty of modellers who are still waiting for models from the last two catalogues - Western, Pacer, several wagons for example and not forgetting any HST owers waiting to complete their trains!

 

At least with the Brighton Belle you'll get a complete train in one (or two if you get the full five vehicle set). I can see several people having to beef up their power supplies to light up all those table lamps!

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

[Electrostar]

At the risk of getting ahead of myself the German-built Siemens Velaros will soon be heading to these shores thanks to Eurostar and DB. Another model perhaps that might have international appeal.

[Karhedron]

And two very important questions questions remain unanswered; when and how much.

I am sure firm facts will follow but we can probably speculate. According to the flyer, retailers must place orders by the 8th of March. Assuming Hornby need those numbers for production, we could see the finished model some time over the summer.

 

As for price, the 00 BB with DDC fitted comes in £5 cheaper RRP than the Bachmann 00 Blue Pullman. My hunch is that the N gauge version will be just a smidge cheaper than the Farish BP for the full 5-car train. My guess is a RRP of ~£265. I don't think can allow the BB to be seen as more expensive than the longer BP (even with the added bonus of working table lights ).

[Chris Higgs]

I am sure firm facts will follow but we can probably speculate. According to the flyer, retailers must place orders by the 8th of March. Assuming Hornby need those numbers for production, we could see the finished model some time over the summer.

 

As for price, the 00 BB with DDC fitted comes in £5 cheaper RRP than the Bachmann 00 Blue Pullman. My hunch is that the N gauge version will be just a smidge cheaper than the Farish BP for the full 5-car train. My guess is a RRP of ~£265. I don't think can allow the BB to be seen as more expensive than the longer BP (even with the added bonus of working table lights ).

 

That is all assuming that the UK market is actually the target for Hornby/Arnold. The German N market is so much larger than that here, it is quite possible that it will sell more there as a niche product than here as a mainstream one. In which case, it will be priced accordingly.

 

Chris

[Karhedron]

That is all assuming that the UK market is actually the target for Hornby/Arnold. The German N market is so much larger than that here, it is quite possible that it will sell more there as a niche product than here as a mainstream one. In which case, it will be priced accordingly.

That is a possibility but if the continental collectors market was their main target for this release I would have expected it to be at 1:160. The fact that it is being produced at 1:148 suggest we are the primary target (although I am sure collectors will be a welcome bonus).

[Joseph_Pestell]

If we were talking purely collectors, it would not matter much that it is 1:148. And as our loading gauge is so much smaller, a 1:148 5BEL won't look that oversize against continental prototype models anyway.

 

So better to cover both markets by making it usable for UK modellers.

[Chris Higgs]

If we were talking purely collectors, it would not matter much that it is 1:148. And as our loading gauge is so much smaller, a 1:148 5BEL won't look that oversize against continental prototype models anyway.

 

So better to cover both markets by making it usable for UK modellers.

 

I agree. If you are just collecting it as a curio, you don't care about the scale. It's not as though a Brighton Belle has ever actually run with continental loading gauge stock.

 

I have a Kato Class 66 to 1:160 scale. In my eyes it looks too small when coupled to continental wagons. Even though I know full well that the prototype is just the same. The Dapol one looks more to scale with the stock even though it isn't.

 

Chris

[brushman47544]

It's not as though a Brighton Belle has ever actually run with continental loading gauge stock.

 

Now there's a challenge. Is there a photo out there of the BB alongside the Night Ferry stock in Victoria station?

 

EDIT: Oops - as the Fat Controller says, that wouldn't help!

[Fat Controller]

Now there's a challenge. Is there a photo out there of the BB alongside the Night Ferry stock in Victoria station?

The Night Ferry stock was to UK loading gauge, otherwise it would never have got out of Dover...

[phil gollin]

.

 

I wonder if we could convince Hornby to do an "HOe" locomotive to 1:76th scale ( i.e. an "OO9" loco )  ?

 

That would go well with the announced Peco L & B rolling stock.

 

.

[Andy Y]

This should have been announced at the Nuremberg Toy Fair later this month but it seems as though Arnold were keen to get the information out there. Simon Kohler is currently creating a leaflet for the product but some of the product information available is as follows:

HN3000: LB&SCR, electric railcar “Brighton Belle”, original version of the luxury Pullman train set as it was in service between London Victoria and Brighton from 1934 on, 3-unit set
HN3500: LB&SCR, electric railcar “Brighton Belle”, original version from 1934, additional 2-unit set
HN3001: BR, electric railcar “Brighton Belle”, blue/grey livery, version from 1969-1972, 3-unit set
HN3501: BR, electric railcar “Brighton Belle”, blue/grey livery, version from 1969-1972, additional 2-unit set

 

Scale: 1:148

 

Availability: Late 2013

 

Price: TBC at Nuremberg

 

The Brighton Belle was a named train which operated between London Victoria and Brighton and was the first electric all Pullman
service in the World. The service commenced in June 1934 and continued until withdrawal in April 1972, however the service
was suspended during the Second World War. There were three 5 car units designated 5BEL which were specially built for the
service and were able to travel in 60 minutes the 51 miles between London and Brighton without stopping.

The stunningly elegant Arnold N scale model initially produced in two distinctive livery periods captures perfectly the opulence and
style of the Brighton Belle Pullman. Each car is lit and complete with detailed interior.

 

 

The key questions is will there be more British N Gauge coming from Arnold?  The answer is that Hornby will see how the Brighton Belle is received and then take it from there.

[Kris]

I would say that this is aimed more at the collectors market rather than a signal of intent to seriously enter the UK N gauge market. If Hornby were going to do that a model with broader appeal i.e. one seen all over the country would make more sense.

[Mike W]

Thanks for the confirmation Andy; whilst the info was on Hornby's website, I was waiting for an official reaction/release from Hornby UK before getting my hopes up.

 

A big unit is quite a gamble as a first product, let's hope it sells well, it could be a big development for British N. Now, can I get away with running this alongside my 1970's hydraulic stuff, I wonder....

[Pyewipe Jct]

Just musing, but if this was intended purely for collectors (who presumably don't run their stuff much), would you bother with all the bells & whistles of flywheels, working table lamps, etc.?

 

To be honest, the prototype doesn't interest me much, but a new entrant into the British 'N' market could be interesting...

[roundhouse]

Thanks for the confirmation Andy; whilst the info was on Hornby's website, I was waiting for an official reaction/release from Hornby UK before getting my hopes up.

 

A big unit is quite a gamble as a first product, let's hope it sells well, it could be a big development for British N. Now, can I get away with running this alongside my 1970's hydraulic stuff, I wonder....

 

If you model Merstham then yes. There used to be regular workings to the M25 railhead hauled by Westerns back then with the Quarry line going past the sidings. 

[Karhedron]

The key questions is will there be more British N Gauge coming from Arnold?  The answer is that Hornby will see how the Brighton Belle is received and then take it from there.

I suspect that in turn will depend on the pricing. Hornby's 00 Brighton Belle is carefully priced to be just a smidge cheaper at RRP than Bachmann's Blue Pullman (once you add DCC and the extra coaches). It would have to be really to avoid unfavourable price comparisons as it is one coach shorter.

 

I think they will need to bring the N Gauge version in just under the Farish BP as well in order to be received as competatively priced. I guessed somewhere that the price for the N gauge Belle would be around £265 RRP for the full 5-car set and I still think that they will need to hit this price point if they want it to sell well.

[Graham_Muz]

This should have been announced at the Nuremberg Toy Fair later this month but it seems as though Arnold were keen to get the information out there. Simon Kohler is currently creating a leaflet for the product but some of the product information available is as follows:

 

HN3000: LB&SCR, electric railcar “Brighton Belle”, original version of the luxury Pullman train set as it was in service between London Victoria and Brighton from 1934 on, 3-unit set

HN3500: LB&SCR, electric railcar “Brighton Belle”, original version from 1934, additional 2-unit set

HN3001: BR, electric railcar “Brighton Belle”, blue/grey livery, version from 1969-1972, 3-unit set

HN3501: BR, electric railcar “Brighton Belle”, blue/grey livery, version from 1969-1972, additional 2-unit set

 

Perhaps if Simon is preparing a leaflet, I assume in English rather than German, then he should correct the information to read SR rather than LB&SCR as the Electric Units were not introduced until 1933 and prior to then when steam hauled the service was called the 'Southern Belle' not the 'Brighton Belle' Just a thought....

[Karhedron]

Now, can I get away with running this alongside my 1970's hydraulic stuff, I wonder....

Get a dummy Dapol class 73 in Pullman livery for push-pull operation off the juice.

 

Well it could have happened.

[frobisher]

I would say that this is aimed more at the collectors market rather than a signal of intent to seriously enter the UK N gauge market. If Hornby were going to do that a model with broader appeal i.e. one seen all over the country would make more sense.

Yes and no. This is a first step, and a pretty serious signal of intent, but it has to have a market and Hornby have hedged their bets. Will it sell? I seriously think it will, both to collectors and the "normal" UK n gauge modeller (you know, the ones buying Midland Pullman sets despite not modelling the region...). Doing a model with broader appeal means duplicating something already out there done to modern standards - there are really no gapping holes in the availabe ranges now. If they duplicate, the pressure is there to not only produce a good product, but a much better one than their competitors as they will have a higher price point (based on Arnold's current pricing) to justify plus punters' expectations to meet. If they produced a lone locomotive they would also have to produce supporting rolling stock and suddenly you're producing a range of products to "test the water".

 

Hornby need to establish a niche for themselves now with UK N gauge as they sat on the sideline too long. Dapol has eroded most of what would have been "natural" models for Hornby to form a range around and Bachmann have been developing products in parallel with their 00 range. I can see this niche being multiple units very easily, and it would be much welcomed.

[Mike W]

If you model Merstham then yes. There used to be regular workings to the M25 railhead hauled by Westerns back then with the Quarry line going past the sidings. 

 

 

Get a dummy Dapol class 73 in Pullman livery for push-pull operation off the juice.

 

Well it could have happened.

 

Westerns, you say? Oh dear, looks like a Blue/Grey one of these may be on the cards!

 

Thanks gents!

[bmthtrains - David]

I will be interested to see how Hornby approach the marketing with their leaflet etc - If it is a testing of the waters in N, using the Arnold name makes sense. Although Hornby is a very well-known brand, its not needed to sell the product in N (the Arnold name is fine), while using Hornby could a)confuse the train set market with products not in the same scale, and b)this is much subtler way of testing the market. If 'Hornby' moved into N and pulled out it would be big news...if Arnold try a UK model and do no more, well, not much to report there...

 

David

[Crepello]

I hope this means loco-hauled Pullmans to come eventually. I've always wanted a Pullman brake coach to run with the Mark 1 Pullmans on my ECML expresses; I was surprised that Farish never updated their early version.

[mikeharvey22]

I can see several people having to beef up their power supplies to light up all those table lamps!

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

 

Hopefully it will be a couple of LEDs per car and some fibreoptics. Powered lights in each car does beg the question about which car/cars are motorised and will need DCC chips, or whether there is one powered vehicle and electrical couplings between the cars, or whether all cars pick up their own power. The Farish Blue Pullmann has two powered cars. My bet is that the Arnold Belle will have just one motorised vehicle and possibly not at the ends of the unit, as per the 3 car Spanish Class 592 unit which is also being run this year and has the centre car motorised. But that would need 3 chips without through wiring. Hmmm....

 

Mike

[brushman47544]

Westerns, you say? 

 

...and Warships