RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted April 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 11, 2014 Kernow's weekly newsletter has just arrived. All the said gathering A4's are on sale individually at £169.99 each. The "G.G" words are not used.Interesting.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Kernow's weekly newsletter has just arrived. All the said gathering A4's are on sale individually at £169.99 each. The "G.G" words are not used.Interesting.... If you click on each one, the description says they're from the Great Goodbye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 I've seen it all now. Pics to follow when I have a moment. The Good: 60008 and 60007 are some of the nicest examples of recent A4 models I have seen. Really pleased with them (aside from the wrongly positioned cods mouth detail, Gresley's whistle and window frames...). There are some slight tweaks in the position of lining etc relative to previous releases. So well done Hornby. The Bad: the biggest clanger was 60009. Again there are some commendable tweaks (namely the sloping OHL flash is now straight, but positions still circa 2009). BUT the tender top insert (i.e. roof of water space and coal space) was quite clearly for a bow-ended tender, fitted in a 1928 body, leaving huge gaps at the rear corners. I have no idea how this happened.... Did someone simply take the spec sheet from R2909 (Commonwealth collection, 1935 Corridor Tender) and forget to change all the parts? This is almost akin to B4 bogies on the B-Stock carriages. Again is mine a one-off? Anyone else with a Gathering or Goodbye 60009 cares to check? Sadly Mallard is as wrong as ever, aside from nose end numbers being fractionally better than the Great Goodbye. The pain finish is horribly matt, (indeed as are all the LNER A4s). I have just (subject to confirmation and hope) secured a brand new original mallard, which will be suitably detailed up. I should have done this years ago, and I figured this really is my last chance to get a top-quality Hornby Mallard... Other issues - cab roof - OK on BR models. All my 3 LNER models have issues iwth cab roof, at back end, it is 0.5mm thicker on one side than the other, meaning the rain strip at the rear end of the RHS almost disappears, corner apperas to curl up slightly, and some of the outer rivet detail is missing as the roof drops down slightly. Looks like the tooling was incorrectly set up, especially as BR models are fine (presumably tooling set up differently with no valances). The net effect with Mallard is that the continuation of the blue on the cab roofs is not a straight at the very edges of the cab. l Again pics to follow. This non-fixable issue wit the actual body moulding was the final straw with Mallard the prompted me to put out a last-ditch search for a Sanda Kan made model! RE Missing corridor tender windows, I think I have found them - they are glued on the INSIDE of the tender window opening, complete with trim detail facing inwards pushed up against tender top insert.... ***??????????*** HOW??? WHAT??? Please Hornby, just give me the parts and let me assemble your generally well-made components (Cab roof aside) myself to the standard your designers intended. Your subcontractors in China are clearly incapable of doing this. Thoughts, comments... G-BOAF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trent Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Kernow's weekly newsletter has just arrived. All the said gathering A4's are on sale individually at £169.99 each. The "G.G" words are not used.Interesting.... Didn't take long for them to start selling out Ian. I looked yesterday morning and SNG was available but now gone. Bagged a UoSA and Bittern as I never wanted all 6 but fancied the UK mainline examples. Anyone have an idea how Kernow have been able to get hold of these at this point so sell individually? Just asking in an attempt to work out if Hattons etc will get some? I'd still like to add a SNG and £169 is in the realms of an acceptable price without having to buy the set. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_man Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Anyone have an idea how Kernow have been able to get hold of these at this point so sell individually? Martin There were never any restrictions on dealers selling individual locos - they just had to buy in complete sets. We still have Bittern and DDE available from the Great Gathering set we decided to split. Steve Model Railway Imports Canada Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium GraemeWatson Posted April 12, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 12, 2014 They're all the same. Both the Gathering one I rejected and the one I kept have the gaps at the rear corners. Not good, but what are you going to do? As I've mentioned before, I wanted an Onion of SA in current condition, so....... Far more offensive to my eyes are the awfully printed Onion crests. I've got some Fox replacements for when I've finished rebuilding motorcycles......Onion of South Africa. Now there's an A4!How about Dominion of Cabbage, or Dwight D. Elderflower? Clearly there's been some autocorrect issues there, but it made me smile :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike70 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Tenders mis-aligned, cab vents glued... I know it's an A3, but I wonder what Book Law will be like? I've got one on order, but if it isn't up to scratch, I might end up sending it back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 update re corridor tender window: THE GOOD: glazing can be removed from its incorrect internal position by firmly pushing with cotton bud from outside (tender body off). THE BAD: Unfortunately, in order to get the glazing to fit incorrectly inside the body, the factory staff have squared off two sides of the representation of the brass window frame. THE UGLY:This 'trimming' means that the edge of the part cannot simply be painted up (brass or body colour as appropriate for the different locos) and fixed in its correct position without looking like a complete bodge. If it were just glazing it would be fixable using some form of liquid glazing. As the part contains the window frame as well it is more of a problem. It would be nice to think Hornby will commission a batch of spare glazing parts when the next run of corridor tenders are made. Other option - any etches available out there? A number of youtube reviews and NO ONE has pointed this out, even when they specifically refer to said window aperture.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steventrain Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Two A4 left NRM today and heading for vessel - NRM Facebook. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Two A4 left NRM today and heading for vessel - NRM Facebook. The NRM is a bit out of date then as 60008 arrived in Liverpool on Wednesday, not sure about 4489. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4rrn Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 4489 arrived at Liverpool Seaforth Docks on thursday, a friend of mine passed it on the M62 near Milrow. 'Atlantic Concert' is the ship carrying them to Halifax Nova Scotia left today at 12.30pm, its a 9 nine crossing, then DDE has 2000 mile rail journey to Green bay and DOC has a 900 mile trip to Exporail in Montreal. Well done to the NRM for Mallard 75, Im sure the sight of the six A4's together is something many of thought we'd never see. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted May 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 3, 2014 Just a pity than none of the £500k profits was shared with the loco owners, especially Bittern which subsequently lost a years mainline running down to a handful of trips...ok they were fast ones. I don't know where you got this idea from. As far as the NRM are concerned Bittern, Union of South Africa and Sir Nigel Gresley were only actually comitted to attend the relatively few Great Gathering events at York & Shildon which in terms of total length wern't much more than a single callender month when put together. What is far more relevent - especially with Bittern (though it also impacted on the others) is NRs steam bans put in place last summer causing the last of the 90mph runs to be continually posponed untill November (IIRC) Faced with such a situation I believe the owners were therefore relatively happy for the locos to remain on display for a lot longer than was origional envisioned when the Great Gathering events were being planned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 I think technically, or at least according to the banner on the turntable at the NRM, the loco owners were counted as 'sponsors' of the event (i.e. providing a service FoC), but bear in mind in the case of 60009, they also got workshop access free (I think 60009 had some maintainance done at York, for example)... Given the level of 'profit' I suppose a gesture to the loco owners would have been nice, certainly for 60007 which is owned by a charity (as opposed to the other two UK locos which are owned by individuals) Once again, just to say what a great show it was, and I very much hope we will see the two ex-pats back again in the not too distant future, certainly for the 100th! Returning to the models, (which I am now begining to test on the track...) looking alone the length at 'trackside height' I noticed that the loco seemed to the sloping backwards, when compared to the presumably level tender. placing a ruler along the wheels on a valanced example indicated that the valance bottoms were indeed not level. Similarly the top of the cab sides are also fractionally horizontal, though you need a finely graduated ruler to notice this. The cab end of the locos is c.0.5mm too low compared with the cylinder end. In part explains the disparity between the chrome strip on 4489 loco and tender. Raising the cab end improves this. It is not perfect, as the tender chrome is fractionally too high as the real loco has slightly extended side sheets, but at least means the top of the cab and tender 'running plate' are level. The modification also aligns the handrail knobs on the loco and tender cab entrance, and brings the cab roof closer to the tender roof level. As supplied, the tender looks a little 'high' compared to the cab. Having jacked up the rear of the loco on paper, the look of the cab/tender interface is greatly improved. I believe the rear of the loco is fixed to the chassis by lugs on the motor bracket. Theoretically by 'packing' the motor bracket a little higher on the chassis block, this slight error can be rectified. As with my Bachmann A2 mods, I hope to document this at some point, though no promises on timescale. If someone gets there first, I'd love to see the results. EDIT: IGNORE WHAT I SAID ABOUT ADJUSTING HEIGHT at rear end - see post below... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted May 4, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 4, 2014 IOnce again, just to say what a great show it was, and I very much hope we will see the two ex-pats back again in the not too distant future, certainly for the 100th! Hear Hear. Really glad it happened and that i attended. Wonderful occassion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iankemp Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 You do realise if it happens again for the centenary of Mallards speed event and the 2 ex-pats get to come over again, Hornby will try and cash in again with another run of the model A4's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iankemp Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I forgot to add to my last post, If they did would ALL the faults be corrected on them and made to a better standard? We will have to see! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted May 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 6, 2014 With 25 years of cost cutting development of "design clever" by then we might get a wooden block with the right number of wheels and "LNER" written on the side. I think I might have something like that already in my old toy box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted May 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 6, 2014 You do realise if it happens again for the centenary of Mallards speed event and the 2 ex-pats get to come over again, Hornby will try and cash in again with another run of the model A4's. Though the models won't be delivered until the 125th celebrations................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Just a pity than none of the £500k profits was shared with the loco owners, especially Bittern which subsequently lost a years mainline running down to a handful of trips...ok they were fast ones. 60009 canceled a number of trips In order to attend as well. 60007 has an expensive overhaul coming.. I believe around £6k is what UK the owners were paid for "expenses" for their working steads. 8/10 went back cosmetically overhauled of course, £30k plus invested in each.. Each loco owner received £3,000 for the 3 weeks they were on display (£1,000 per week if you like) this figure was agreed in advance. No-one knew how popular this event would be and I imagine it caught a lot of people off guard (if they had known would they have had more models for sale at the events?). Apart from a few miles trundling up and down at Shildon none of the 3 runners did any miles in this time so wear and tear on the locos was reduced and the 2 with sales stands (Gresley and Bittern) will no doubt have made a few £££ in sales so all in all it probably wasn't too bad for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted May 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2014 Is the shine wearing off these models now ? I see last weekend some models have now been failing to sell at £170 on ebay new... Yes...the market does seem to be suddenly overstuffed with these.Owners seen over-eager to profit quickly from their purchases and some retailers are over-anxious to off load their "quota". Maybe the bubble has burst for the time being.They ARE expensive for what they are but then they are collectors items ( or were marketed as such ).It will be interesting to see what prices they command in,say,a 12 months'time when the frenzy has been exhausted and they are not quite as "available".As an interesting comparison a "Great Snipe "(with damaged box) is on e-bay at under £90 and Hattons have them at around £110. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted May 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2014 What is further complicating matters is,of course,the shrinkage in disposable income and the curious release,hot on the heels of the G.G. of R3131,which retailers seem desperate to sell and which ,of course,are sticking.Rails are the latest to put them on a 24 hour "Sale". They can be purchased elsewhere and cheaper than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I think technically, or at least according to the banner on the turntable at the NRM, the loco owners were counted as 'sponsors' of the event (i.e. providing a service FoC), but bear in mind in the case of 60009, they also got workshop access free (I think 60009 had some maintainance done at York, for example)... Given the level of 'profit' I suppose a gesture to the loco owners would have been nice, certainly for 60007 which is owned by a charity (as opposed to the other two UK locos which are owned by individuals) Once again, just to say what a great show it was, and I very much hope we will see the two ex-pats back again in the not too distant future, certainly for the 100th! Returning to the models, (which I am now begining to test on the track...) looking alone the length at 'trackside height' I noticed that the loco seemed to the sloping backwards, when compared to the presumably level tender. placing a ruler along the wheels on a valanced example indicated that the valance bottoms were indeed not level. Similarly the top of the cab sides are also fractionally horizontal, though you need a finely graduated ruler to notice this. The cab end of the locos is c.0.5mm too low compared with the cylinder end. In part explains the disparity between the chrome strip on 4489 loco and tender. Raising the cab end improves this. It is not perfect, as the tender chrome is fractionally too high as the real loco has slightly extended side sheets, but at least means the top of the cab and tender 'running plate' are level. The modification also aligns the handrail knobs on the loco and tender cab entrance, and brings the cab roof closer to the tender roof level. As supplied, the tender looks a little 'high' compared to the cab. Having jacked up the rear of the loco on paper, the look of the cab/tender interface is greatly improved. I believe the rear of the loco is fixed to the chassis by lugs on the motor bracket. Theoretically by 'packing' the motor bracket a little higher on the chassis block, this slight error can be rectified. As with my Bachmann A2 mods, I hope to document this at some point, though no promises on timescale. If someone gets there first, I'd love to see the results. The Chrome/silver strip on the Tender will not line up with the Loco as it is set too high. The tender strip should be underneath the main body of the Tender not above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_man Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Our US counterparts had their steads overhauled at some expense, whilst our British brethren basically got their tenders filled with coal. Canada is not part of the US... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4rrn Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Has anyone thought about updating your bittern model with the commemorative plaque. May be from a mallard or SNG nameplate set. Or is there one available yet specifically for bittern Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 MickLNER you are likely right abou the chrome strip, but the problem is that doing it 'correctly' results in the slightly unsightly black 'chassis top' between the tender body and the chrome. Ignore my point about cab end. The body is secured with a 'tongue' on the chassis block, and it is not a simple case of 'packing' any part. In either way, I think the cab end is correct... the front end is wrong. Read on: Further measurement: I suspect the tender is fractionally too high. According to drawings I have seen, the height of the buffer beam is 4'1" (49 inches) equating to 1244.6mm from rail height, which scales in at 16.37mm (call it 16.5...!) The 'running plate' top under the A4 cab is indeed 16.5mm from what I can measure. If we assume the cab end is correct, the front end of the loco is a little too high, given that the bottom of the valances are not horizontal. This is noticeable, not only if you eyeball the loco down its length at valance height, but also if you compare the position of the valance bottom relative to the wheel centres, and also relative to the cylinders. In addition, you really should not see as much slide bar as you do on these models. I think the total discrepancy is about 1.5mm front relative to back. Reducing this will have the added effect of making the valve spindles appear closer to the running plate (on non-valanced locos). The gab between spindles and running plate is another let down on these locos. Dropping the front end will not be totally straightforward, especially if one wants to generally preserve the integrity of these models (i.e. make any changes reversible). Furthermore, the motion brackets will not allow the body to be lowered without themselves being tweaked. More major job than I was anticipating, and will require a fair amount of 'design work' and some spares to experiment on before work commences....! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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