Great Gathering A4 Collection

[micklner]

I presume you are talking about the Gathering versions of the A4 ? I cant see any problem with the Loco bodies on mine . A easy way to tell is, put the front and rear buffers together and see if there is any difference in height.

The photos are of converted R2339 Mallard versions. I should also have said a  microstrip has been added underneath on the Tender and then silvered. I agree re the gap the only cure would be to glue the Tender solid then repaint. I am trying to think of a reason why you would ever need to remove the body before making that decision !!

This method would only apply to earlier versions of the A4 due to horrible DCC connection on the current version anyway.

[G-BOAF]

In that case I look forward to getting my teeth into my (incredibly found brand new) original batch R2339 Mallard and compare it to the GG versions. If its fine that will certainly help provide a datum for GG modifications

As for tender vs loco buffer alignments, certainly slightly upward pointing front buffers don't help make this assessment. Wack a small ruler under your valance and see how straight edge compares to valance bottom. I'd be pleasantly surprised to hear the original release are totally horizontal, but from pics posted earlier in this post I think they sadly are not. Even the box art profile pics demonstrates the front is fractionally higher than rear....

We will see. It really is a small amount (as I say somewhere between 1 and 1.5mm.

[G-BOAF]

Anyone successfully lowered their top lamp iron? If so, how did you fill/finish the hole left over?

 

with the 'lid' off, there are 3 hole positions moulded inside the nose end. One for upper higher top lamp iron, one for lower top lamp iron, and one for BR numberplate. All A4s have higher lamp iron fitted, with the BR numberplate then erroneously fitted into position designed for lower top lamp iron. Repositioning BR numberplate therefor easy - drill out lower hole, move lamp iron to hole vacated by numberplate.

 

The problem is, what to do with remaining upper hole?

 

Any advice/experience?

[Colin_McLeod]

Is it protypical to have a lamp in both upper positions?

[G-BOAF]

Clarification: Top lamp iron (on cod's mouth door) can be fitted in two positions - an upper one near the hinge, as on all A4s as built, and a lower one, about 1ft lower, with the change occurring around mid-1938. Locos should have one or other of these (obviously not both). All preserved locos should have the lower of the two positions.

 

While the inside of the body shell is marked for both positions, the challenge is that removing from the top leaves a hole, and I was wondering how people managed/rectified this.

 

The bottom middle lamp iron (2ft above the line of the buffers) is nothing to do with this query!

[Hilux5972]

How big is the hole? A little putty left to go hard and the touched in with some satin black would work well I imagine.

[Purley Oaks]

Just popped onto well-known password-protected online auction site and interested to see 9 Great Goodbye sets on offer from £1099 to £1650 (that last one is taking the p, surely); but it's less than 2% of the 510 sets sold. They may go for a small premium, maybe 10%, in the weeks ahead, especially if the display box is included (must be ordered by the end of June).

Mal

[Black 5 Bear]

I haven't as yet seen any of the BR Green version of this loco, can anyone please confirm whether the brunswick green is better than of late on other releases ???

[Ian Hargrave]

I haven't as yet seen any of the BR Green version of this loco, can anyone please confirm whether the brunswick green is better than of late on other releases ???

As a point of interest,how does one judge the quality and authenticity of B.R. Brunswick Green? This posting will now probably detonate a minefield.The only issue I have with representations of the colour is with Bachmann.....in particular with their rendering of weathered D 6984 Class 37

[Black 5 Bear]

As a point of interest,how does one judge the quality and authenticity of B.R. Brunswick Green? This posting will now probably detonate a minefield.The only issue I have with representations of the colour is with Bachmann.....in particular with their rendering of weathered D 6984 Class 37

Hi Ian,

 

The brunswick green that is applied to the new Hornby products is too light when you compare it to the Bachmann finish on their steam locos, fine if you are going to weather them, it has look of faded paint, just look at the DOG !!! 

 

Overall though I think you will agree that the Hornby A4 is a far superior model compared to that of the Bachmann offering, the latter is a 40 year old moulding from the old Trix company I believe which urgently needs an update. 

[Ian Hargrave]

Of course the Bachmann A4 is nowhere near as good as the Hornby offering,I wholeheartedly agree..both in looks and,until the chassis upgrade,performance too.

The point I am making is that is now half a century since BR Brunswick green graced our rails.The only reference point we have is through colour photography and rare film footage from the late 50's and early 60's and they are often unstable and inaccurate,given the quality of film then.So we rely on human memory....even more notoriously inaccurate than the camera.My own photos of that period are in monochrome anyway.All they can do is give an atmospheric taste of what it was like.

 

So then,to Dwight.D.Eisenhower,a "Great Gathering" A4 languishing in my display cabinet.How does it look to my eyes,some 60 years on from my acquaintance with it in service at the buffer stops in King's Cross ? All I can say is that I am more than happy with it,given everything I have posted above.

Regards,Ian.

[MikeParkin65]

There is of course 46235 in the 'Thinktank' which was repainted at Crewe works in 1963. To my eye the Bachmann green, at least on the steam models has been pretty consistent in shade in recent years and nearer the colour of 46235 and most contemporary photos (limitations of 50+ year old film accepted). The Hornby shade has been varied but always seems too olive or as Black 5 Bear says 'faded'.

[G-BOAF]

Bachmann had a couple of years (2010-ish) when they produced Blue Peter and Evening Star to name a couple I have, when the green was somewhat more garish than it should have been. Now back to normal, which is a rather nice representation.

 

The recent Hornby A4s suffer from being fractionally more matt than previous models, other than that, I think they are the same shade as previous models.

[brushman47544]

The only issue I have with representations of the colour is with Bachmann.....in particular with their rendering of weathered D 6984 Class 37

Couldn't agree more and strange, seeing as how well known the photo is that Bachmann used as a basis for the model the green is way off.

[G-BOAF]

Chassis problem, only evident now locos are being run:

3 fine, all 6 driving wheels providing traction

3 locos - centre driving wheel is hovering a fraction of a mm above the rails, and 'slips' as loco starts until slack gone from rods. Ordinarily wouldn't worry, but given 3 OK this is odd.

I placed locos on flat surface, moving back and fourth within the slack of drive train and coupling rods, sure enough centre drivers only move when 'pushed' by rods, rather than weight of loco.

On the 3 OK locos, all wheels turned when pushed without waiting for slack...

 

Are we seeing a repeat of distorted chassis (rather quick), or is it possible the centre driving wheels are distorted/shrunk slightly. Its akin to the Bachmann 47 banana bogies, but in reverse!

 

If faulty wheels, then a replacement set would solve problem. If the chassis block is somehow out of true, we have problems... (chassis castings not available as spares)...

 

Anyone else? will replacement/adjusted wheels do the trick?

[84A]

History generally doesn't judge Limited Editions kindly, even more so when the quantity produced goes over the 500 mark.

 

Case example: Bachmann made a 250 limited edition of Dwight D Eisenhower for the US market only back in the 1990's, priced at $250 at the time (£180 in the day) at a time Bachmann's Ltd Editions in the UK were around the £100 mark, couldn't be any rarer and selling over £600 selling at one point.

Lucky to get £150 today.

 

If someone has all 6 with the case it may fetch a premium, otherwise (4464 and maybe 4489 aside) the rest may drift back to the general A4 price tab… 4468 by Either Hornby or Bachmann is hardly a rare model after all. I can buy Bachmann 60010 / 60009 / 60008 / 60007 in their current liveries on ebay for well under < £100… that will be a factor in Hornbys GG price value.. A4's are quite over produced right now and these sets are a fashion item.. fashion fades, especially if the living room wall needs redecorating and the cabinets in the way, or you never got the cabinet (when it's ceases being supplied) , or you don't own all 6 and kind of forgot the event after a year or so and of course "oops one got damaged"..

 

Another case in point.. Apple Green 60163 Tornado's are two a penny everywhere… it was 3 years since it was in all the headlines fashionable.

 

I predict a £700-£800 price point 1-2 years from now for all 6 including the display case.. maybe sooner, and a £100-£120 price point for them individually (even then thats only because of the general supply shortage and recent price rises).

 

Moral of the story.. is buy it, open it, look at it, run it, enjoy it, investing is as said.. a marketing gimmick.

I certainly agree with your point regarding 60163, however don't agree with your assessment of which of the A4s will still be in demand in a few years time. I have waited since 2004 (I believe) for Hornby to release a BR Blue A4 using the latest tooling - especially after seeing 60007 running on the SVR. They released Kingfisher as part of the Rare Bird train pack - I wasn't able to get hold of one of these sets, and all of those that I seem to have come across on eBay are damaged in some way (the QC on these models was noticeably poor). They then released Sparrow Hawk with DCC Sound, which didn't suit me either as I operate using analogue DC. Therefore, the release of 60007 was coming for years and I can't honestly understand from a marketing point of view why its taken so long. The quality of the Bachmann model (as you say, is out there) is nowhere near on par with the current Hornby model - I can see this model being in demand for some years to come.

 

I can also see 4489 being in demand due to the strength from the overseas market, however with regard to the other three I agree with your comments. There are a wide range of BR A4s in the market now (pretty much every number surely?), there are plenty of R2339 Mallard models knocking around (basically the same as the GG offerings) and I don't see what is so special about Bittern as a model - the LNER livery is available elsewhere, and its running with a double chimney. Admittedly, this is also present on 60007, but the striking livery and its name will keep its price IMO.

 

The biggest `hole' in the Hornby A4 catalogue that I still think has yet to be filled is a model of Golden Eagle in LNER Apple Green. I can see this being popular and also complimentary to the vast range of teaks they currently offer, so am at a loss as to why its not been done to date.

 

Out of interest, does anyone know of any model shops that are still offering R3256 or R3252 models for sale? Everywhere I look seems to suggest that the models have been sold out - they are on eBay, but listed at more than £200.

[GNR Dave]

Yes I could not agree more about an LNER apple green A4. Every time I saw the Hornby Roadshow at exhibitions I filled out a wish list for such a loco. However, in one of his last published interviews, SK said it was not considered economically worthwhile. :-( The other gap in the A4 livery list is post WWII LNER garter blue without the valances, with the stainless steel revised numbers (1-34 ?) Both of these liveries would require complete re-sprays of existing A4 donor models. If the Big H are reading this, and decide to act, I hope they also make the red colour on the wheels of the garter blue version a little brighter. They have always looked a little dark / dull to my eyes when compared to contemporary photos. 

[Ian Hargrave]

With regard to BR blue A4's,Sparrow Hawk 60018 I purchased from TMC a year or so .They had them on their website without sound & DCC chip. The Great Gathering 60007 is equipped with a double chimney,which it did not sport until well into its green...and final...guise.....unfortunately for those of us who like prototypical correctness for early 1950's.It is a nice model,though...and OK if you model the NYMR.You can also still sometimes source the "experimental blue" released by Modelfair as a special several years ago. Again,it's a nice model.....and has the correct single chimney. I too would relish an apple green version in late 1930's running.Still waiting to sorce an R 2965 "Silver Link" at a sensible price....the one that got away....

[84A]

With regard to BR blue A4's,Sparrow Hawk 60018 I purchased from TMC a year or so .They had them on their website without sound & DCC chip. The Great Gathering 60007 is equipped with a double chimney,which it did not sport until well into its green...and final...guise.....unfortunately for those of us who like prototypical correctness for early 1950's.It is a nice model,though...and OK if you model the NYMR.You can also still sometimes source the "experimental blue" released by Modelfair as a special several years ago. Again,it's a nice model.....and has the correct single chimney. I too would relish an apple green version in late 1930's running.Still waiting to sorce an R 2965 "Silver Link" at a sensible price....the one that got away....

Yes, completely agree regarding the double chimney and use in the fifties. For me though, I just had to have one after seeing the real thing at the SVR with the teak set - it certainly looked a little out of place on a single line branch, but looked superb behind teaks and always wanted to try it out on my layout at home. I'll keep an eye out for that Sparrow Hawk model too - the single chimney, non-corridor tender would be a nice combination to have and compare to No.7.

 

The reason for asking if anyone knows if there are any R3256 or R3252 models left is that I have a friend who is looking for them both. Therefore, when I read on here that some shops were struggling to sell certain models, I thought i'd try to find out where so I could pass the info on to him. 

 

PS: I actually saw a R2965 on eBay listed last night, just purely by coincidence. I agree, they are getting rare now:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261491480545&ssPageName=ADME:B:BODO:UK:1

 

I have a model of Quicksilver from the R2445 pack a few years ago, but I considered purchasing this too. However the model appears to be damaged and not as new as the seller claims. The doors appear to be missing, and I couldn't decide (due to dark photo) if the top lampiron is present or not. Therefore, for a definitive model, it didnt look that good at £125.00 to be honest - I think they were around £140 when released?

[roundhouse]

On Sunday morning the two A4s were in sidings on the edge of a Halifax still wrapped in red. Unfortunately I wasn't ready with the camera as we went past.

 

Ian

[Rich75]

has anyone who dared to buy "The Great Goodbye" set managed to get the cabinet/heard anything from Picture Pride Displays yet? Although granted I only sent the tokens to them in mid June, I've heard nothing yet. 2 emails have gone ignored by the firm. Trying to gauge when giving them an annoyed phone call moaning about their ignorance may be required

[Steffi_C]

has anyone who dared to buy "The Great Goodbye" set managed to get the cabinet/heard anything from Picture Pride Displays yet? Although granted I only sent the tokens to them in mid June, I've heard nothing yet. 2 emails have gone ignored by the firm. Trying to gauge when giving them an annoyed phone call moaning about their ignorance may be required

I never got mine from the Great Gathering set, and I sent off my tokens last December!  There's only one consolation and that is that my £10 cheque has never been presented.  I believe that quite a few people have found themselves in the same position.

 

Hornby should have retained full control of the ordering process from the off.  I'm not exactly happy.

[Colin_McLeod]

Rich and Steffi it looks like it is time to make a formal and assertive approach to the suppliers of the cabinet and also to Hornby who's advertising induced you to buy the full set and order the cabinet.. Registered letter rather than e mails. I would not accept the refund of the £10 if I was you. I would settle for nothing less than the promised cabinet. That was the contract.

 

Good luck

[S.A.C Martin]

Overall though I think you will agree that the Hornby A4 is a far superior model compared to that of the Bachmann offering, the latter is a 40 year old moulding from the old Trix company I believe which urgently needs an update. 

 

A new body shell is all it needs in my opinion.

 

 

(Shameless plug)

 

The chassis is fabulously smooth and surprisingly powerful. This model had a nice running in session on Little Bytham last month and whilst not as sure footed as some of the kit built locos around it, more than held its own on the heavy and scale length trains it was utilised on. Personally speaking I'd be amazed if Bachmann didn't just produce a new body shell for the new chassis. It would be an absolute no brainer on their part and would probably put the cat amongst the pigeons next to Hornby's model. All they need to do is produce one with a better shape and similar levels of detail and it's a winner in my book.

[G-BOAF]

A new body shell is all it needs in my opinion.

 

CIMG8569_2.jpg

 

(Shameless plug)

 

The chassis is fabulously smooth and surprisingly powerful. This model had a nice running in session on Little Bytham last month and whilst not as sure footed as some of the kit built locos around it, more than held its own on the heavy and scale length trains it was utilised on. Personally speaking I'd be amazed if Bachmann didn't just produce a new body shell for the new chassis. It would be an absolute no brainer on their part and would probably put the cat amongst the pigeons next to Hornby's model. All they need to do is produce one with a better shape and similar levels of detail and it's a winner in my book.

Agree: with the advances in laser scanning, the Hornby A4 could be bettered. Indeed if there was a loco that needed laser scanning, it is the A4 with its complex contours.

Would I buy a laser scanned Bachmann A4? Yes. Would I buy more than one, probably not at this stage, having just got 6 Hornby ones.

Bachmann would also have to  sort out the rear end of the chassis block, raising the Cartazzi and removign the amount of metal 'infill' above it (i.e. distance from cartzzzi spring to valance bottom reduced!) Chassis would also require more detail to Peppercorn standards, including sand pipes, and some sort of representation of the brake cylinders would be good. Don't know how flexible the tooling is, given the chassis was likely 'designed around' the trix body. Might be better to go clean sheet and use the excellent wheels, valve gear and mechanism, rather than take short cuts.

 

This said the Hornby model is very good (recent build quality aside) let down by some necessary compromises (front valances for curves) and some unfortunate errors (front end latitudinally flat, double chimney apertures, and possibly a few others), and some elements of Hornby production philosophy (mostly etched rather than cast valve gear)