Multiple identity account 2 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Hey, The Class 395 Javelin never ceases to amaze me! Luckily this year Hornby have yet again released it in the form of R3185 SouthEastern 'Sir Chris Hoy'. Basically I'm not a layout type of person and all my models I plan to keep in a nice big well lit showcase. This also means I get to show off models from different eras. Now back to the point * What are the main features of the Hornby Javelin? * How detailed is it? Being thoroughly inspired by the aerodynamic looks of the javelin I actually decided to build a small layout (small in the sense, simple). So I'd like a little info from you'll. * Where all has the javelin travelled in the UK? * Has it/does it use HS1? If so can anyone provide me with pictures of a nice modern double line which I can use as a base for my layout just for some high-speed action for the javelin. GENERAL PLANS FOR THE LAYOUT: - A small stretch (10ft) consisting of an electrified double line for the javelin to run on and possibly a Eurostar. - The high speed double line will be on the upper deck with tunnel portals/scenery at each end to hide a sharp curve taking the train to the lower level (hidden from view) to store the trains. So please help me with some modern lineside images and other bits and bobs regarding the javelin and it's services. I've attached a very bad sketch of my plans so that you'll get the idea. Thanks, JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 What is the proposed dfference in \height between the 2 levels? What is the radius you propose for the curved links between the 2 levels? I forsee that dependant on the proposed height difference, there may be the possibility that the gradiant may be too severe particularly with sharp radius curves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted February 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2013 The Cl.395 operates on HS1 from St. Pancras International to the Kent Coast - basically: - one train per hour runs to Ashford on HS1 and then joins the classic route to Margate or Ramsgate with some being extended to Sandwich - one train per hour runs to Ashford on HS1 and then joins the classic route to Folkestone and Dover (which gives Ashford a high-speed train every 30 minutes) - another train runs to Ebbsfleet on HS1 (a very short journey!!) and then joins the Classic route to Gravesend, Rochester and Faversham The Cl.395 units were built by Hitachi in Japan and are based on one of the mini-shinkansens running in Japan. The units run on overhead power on HS1 with pantographs being raised/lowered during the short station stop at Ashford and then run on the 3rd rail classic route. Only Standard Class seating (with greater legroom than a classic train) is provided with a small supplemental fare being charged. From my point of view it's a fantastic service - can get from Folkestone to London in 54 minutes whilst the classic train takes about 1 hour 40 minutes. In my opinion the Hornby model is quite good - it certainly looks the part and runs very well - can manage quite a speed and stay on the track!! I know, I've got two of the previous releases!! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 The main problem is that Eurostars are enormously long - and Eurostars and Javelins are all that run on CTRL/HS1. Since Javelins run onto the third rail network , that's an alternative , but CEPs and VEPs are too early, It's normally 4 car Networkers that run (the 2 car version is a strengthener to build up a 10 car formation - the maximum length that the platforms at Charing Cross can handle - and Hornby only make a 2 car unit , though it is available at present), and nobody makes RTR Electrostars , or even kits for them The model was intended as "mid-fi" - it's not covered with fine detail, but nor are the real things. It looks to me a fundamentally accurate model of the actual units It's worth pointing out that Javelins do run under the White Cliffs of Dover (between Folkestone and Dover) , and at a pinch the domestic HS1 platforms at St Pancras could be modellable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakydoke Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 There are two different Class 395 models from Hornby, built to different standards. The standard model, which is mid/low fi, similar to their Pendolino. The Railroad model is low fi and fairly crude, with poorer running gear. The additional coaches that can be bought to bring these up to full length are also sold in two different versions. Don't get the wrong ones or it will look awful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 The additional coaches that can be bought to bring these up to full length are also sold in two different versions. Don't get the wrong ones or it will look awful. Also the Railroad coaches use a different style of coupling with no close coupling mechanism so the two aren't even compatible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted February 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2013 10 car formation - the maximum length that the platforms at Charing Cross can handleI thought the CX platforms had been extended to 12 cars, certainly the signals have been moved out further on to Hungerford bridge and the platforms are longer than they were when I was driving there. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 Thanks guys, that was a nice bit of info from all of you'll. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 What is the proposed dfference in \height between the 2 levels? What is the radius you propose for the curved links between the 2 levels? I forsee that dependant on the proposed height difference, there may be the possibility that the gradiant may be too severe particularly with sharp radius curves. - The proposed height difference is 8cm. - I plan to use Hornby 4th radius curves and Hornby flexi track to make the 5th radius outer curve - This being said should ease the gradient and sharpness of the curve and the extra space underneath will be used to store trains. Maybe a small fiddle yard (unseen) with 5 lines max. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2013 Yes the higher spec model is very good with nice detail and a huge speed range, it runs nicely to a realistic stop but is capable of speeds where it will jump the track on 3ft radius curves, I think we measured the scale speed as around 400mph! The trainset version has much simpler printing so I'd avoid that. http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=404641&nseq=0 There are a four or five more pics on this site if you put javelin in the search box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 If you are going to buy one of these models, make sure it's one of the better versions and not one of these....R1139 Blue Rapier set (matching coach is the R4438)R1148 Olympic (white) train setR1153 London 2012 (purple) train set - which is even more basic than the other two.They are less detailed and have blacked out windows and no interiors.The couplings and motors are said to be different too.The better detailed (mid-fi) models are...R2821 or R2821X train packR2972 or R2972X train pack (Sir Steve Redgrave)R3185 train pack (Sir Chris Hoy)Matching coaches are....R4382 (for the R2821 model ???)R4383 ( - ditto - )R4452 (for the R3185 model ???)R4453 ( - ditto - )Another version was the R2961 Olympic (white) track pack. This appears to have been based on the better model, unlike the train set in the same completely un-prototypical, ficticious livery.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted February 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2013 Add-on coches R4452 and R4453 (coaches 39034 and 39035) were done for R2972 Sir Steve Redgrave (coaches 39031, 39032, 39033 and 39036) so I don't think it's right for Hornby to say that R4452 and R4453 are add-on coaches for R3185 Sir Chris Hoy - unless Hitachi/SouthEastern are mixing up coach sets. My reading of this is that not everybody has bought the add-on coaches to go with the basic R2972 coach pack so Hornby are left with add-on coaches in their warehouse. So, obviously, Hornby think the easy way to get rid of them is not to make any dedicated add-on coaches for R3185 Sir Chris Hoy but tell the punters to buy the (incorrectly coach numbered) R4452 and R4453. It's a pity because, looking at the image in the catalogue, R3185 Sir Chris Hoy has the "Javelin" branding and yellow paint on the front of the body bulges (don't know what they are called!!) in front of the bogies on the driving cars which did not appear on the two earlier releases. So we have a new livery version not supported by properly numbered add-on coaches - for those who want a properly numbered set. Suppose it comes down to renumbering R4452 and R4453 if you want something proper....... Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 - The proposed height difference is 8cm. - I plan to use Hornby 4th radius curves and Hornby flexi track to make the 5th radius outer curve - This being said should ease the gradient and sharpness of the curve and the extra space underneath will be used to store trains. Maybe a small fiddle yard (unseen) with 5 lines max. I think its worth pointing out that for satisfactory running gradients ned to be no steeper than 1 in 30, ( this is the often quoted figure in magazines when they review models) This means that if you are planning an 8cm height difference it will require an approx 2.4 metre ( approx 8') run to achieve this It may be worth you looking at Bachmann Woodland Scenics range of polystyrene range of 'Sub Terrain' which includes several options of Gradients, these are easy to use and very versatile. I am unsure if they are available in India but I think that Hattons ( who stock them) will export to your country www.ehattons.com check in the Woodland Scenic section in UNDERLAY! hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 If you have Microsoft Train Simulator (unfortunately long out of production), there's a downloadable HS1 add-on available from www.uktrainsim.com which would help give a feel for the route. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 6, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2013 And if you want to do something different with a 395...... Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 Thanks again. I will look into it and post my complete plan soon. There are a few changes i.e. no double stack layout. So keep checking for a layout design update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted February 6, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2013 I thought the CX platforms had been extended to 12 cars, certainly the signals have been moved out further on to Hungerford bridge and the platforms are longer than they were when I was driving there. Andi I believe the issue is not the signal placings, but rather the girders of the bridge itself which is actually composed of three separate structures featuring high girder sides which cannot be modified as they are integral to the bridges design. Looking at the station throat via online mapping shows the problem quite well http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=skj0vygzpx1h&lvl=19.4&dir=348.8&sty=o&eo=0&where1=charing cross&ss=yp.station~pg.1&form=LMLTCC The northern / easternmost island has been extended onto the first bridge structure which is wide enough for this (being a four track structure). The middle island is the problem one as one of the tracks uses the aforementioned multi track structure but is up tight against the bridge side resulting in something more akin to an emergency walkway than a platform. The other track serving the middle island goes over a single track structure which again does not allow room for anything other than a short escape walkway to be provided. The southern / westernmost uses the third bridge, a double track structure although as this platform goes further back inside the station than the others, it can take 12 cars (just) without the bridge girders becoming an issue. However Charing Cross was only one of a number of outstanding issues that prevented NSE introducing 12 car operation on the suburban lines, for example the necessary platform extensions at Maze Hill were never done because that would have required the rebuilding of the bridge over the Blackwall tunnel southern approach and I believe one of the stations at Woolwich also was not done due to site constraints. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted February 6, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2013 I believe the issue is not the signal placings, but rather the girders of the bridge itself which is actually composed of three separate structures featuring high girder sides which cannot be modified as they are integral to the bridges design. Looking at the station throat via online mapping shows the problem quite well http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=skj0vygzpx1h&lvl=19.4&dir=348.8&sty=o&eo=0&where1=charing cross&ss=yp.station~pg.1&form=LMLTCC The northern / easternmost island has been extended onto the first bridge structure which is wide enough for this (being a four track structure). The middle island is the problem one as one of the tracks uses the aforementioned multi track structure but is up tight against the bridge side resulting in something more akin to an emergency walkway than a platform. The other track serving the middle island goes over a single track structure which again does not allow room for anything other than a short escape walkway to be provided. The southern / westernmost uses the third bridge, a double track structure although as this platform goes further back inside the station than the others, it can take 12 cars (just) without the bridge girders becoming an issue. However Charing Cross was only one of a number of outstanding issues that prevented NSE introducing 12 car operation on the suburban lines, for example the necessary platform extensions at Maze Hill were never done because that would have required the rebuilding of the bridge over the Blackwall tunnel southern approach and I believe one of the stations at Woolwich also was not done due to site constraints. Phil, I was a driver at Charing Cross for nine years so am very familiar with the construction of Hungerford Bridge, and P5&P6 have always been capable of handling 12 car trains, but the front half of the leading vehicle is off the platform. There are plenty of pics on the net that show this. P4 is the one with the single line across the middle section of the bridge and this platform has been extended onto the bridge (this platform is also longer at the stops end - as are 5&6 - than 1-3) P1&P2 have been extended by two car lengths onto the bridge, the ten car mark is where the red X is in this pic grabbed from Bing maps, P3 has been extended the same as P4. As for Maze Hill, I think Woolwich Dockyard was a bigger problem due tunnels at both ends, but the post I replied to stated that CX only had ten car platforms and I knew that not to be the case. (Oh and for curiosity value I once arrived at platform 6 at London Bridge driving a 16 car Networker!) Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 Hi, Would the learned members of the house be able to advise what DCC decoders I would need to purchase to fit out an R2821 Hornby Class 395 'Javelin' please ? I know that I need three decoders, one for the motor coach and two for the end cars to control the lights but, surely I wouldn't use three fully featured Loco decoders as that would be overkill ? Many Thanks for any help you can offer... Kindest Regards, Shed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 Hi, Would the learned members of the house be able to advise what DCC decoders I would need to purchase to fit out an R2821 Hornby Class 395 'Javelin' please ? I know that I need three decoders, one for the motor coach and two for the end cars to control the lights but, surely I wouldn't use three fully featured Loco decoders as that would be overkill ? Many Thanks for any help you can offer... Kindest Regards, Shed. I would assume it's 2. Because of the two power cars one is a dummy and one has a motor. So a decoder in each? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 I would assume it's 2. Because of the two power cars one is a dummy and one has a motor. So a decoder in each? Yes, of course it is......Thanks for pointing this out. So, I'm thinking one 'decent' decoder for the motor end and one 'basic' decoder for the dummy end ? They take 8-Pin decoders and I have been using the DCC Concepts 'ZEN218' lately with other projects, but what would be a good lighting only decoder for the dummy end ? Shed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 Yes, of course it is......Thanks for pointing this out. So, I'm thinking one 'decent' decoder for the motor end and one 'basic' decoder for the dummy end ? They take 8-Pin decoders and I have been using the DCC Concepts 'ZEN218' lately with other projects, but what would be a good lighting only decoder for the dummy end ? Shed. If you like the ZEN218 decoder I suggest you stick to something you've found works best. I don't know about the cost of it, if you have funds to spare use the same one at the dummy end. If not Gaugemaster, Hattons, Dapol, Hornby etc all have their own versions of the 8-pin DCC decoder. Also using a simple 4-pin one like the one used by the Hornby Sentinel should be more than capable for powering lights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 If you like the ZEN218 decoder I suggest you stick to something you've found works best. I don't know about the cost of it, if you have funds to spare use the same one at the dummy end. If not Gaugemaster, Hattons, Dapol, Hornby etc all have their own versions of the 8-pin DCC decoder. Also using a simple 4-pin one like the one used by the Hornby Sentinel should be more than capable for powering lights. Brilliant, Many Thanks for your help with this. Will go for the ZEN218's then as I like these already. Kindest Regards, Shed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted December 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2017 Brilliant, Many Thanks for your help with this. Will go for the ZEN218's then as I like these already. Kindest Regards, Shed. Slightly off topic: I like the Zen 218, and my latest batch from Rails are now 6 function. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.