Lynton & Barnstaple OO9 Loco from Heljan

[PaulRhB]

It is not that Heljan got it wrong, it has to be a drastic compromise to make it, but what has happened is the excess motion can pull the rods to such an extent the mounting moves making it worst, and at that point it snaps. If the mounting on the big end did not fail, then all would be fine. The Loco in the video is not quite the same arrangement as the L&B, as the anchor rod moves far more than usual. There are many ways to make Joy gear

looks remarkably close to Lyd to me, see 1:20 here

https://youtu.be/iqEHlW9um6

 

Having not seen Steve's up close I can't be sure but from his photo it appears the pins came out, not snapped? That would suggest either not properly fixed or so loose that it allowed too much lateral movement. Others I have seen do seem a bit floppy compared to my example. Tims example where all the valve gear came apart also didn't snap anything.

Edited August 22, 2017 by PaulRhB

[bertiedog]

On the model the snap term was used to mean the pin coming out, which if cured by the new makers will leave a perfectly running loco.

 

On the Lyd and the other L&B the reason the flycrank does not have it's end over the axle centre, as it really should, was space. The lower part of the jockey bar has been dispensed with as such and reduces the length to get clearance over the ground. So the anchor bar pivot on the flycrank has to be shortened by the same amount to keep the motion a circle. So despite being an anchor bar, it does move as laid out on the M&W

But it does not move as much as Heljan portray.

I assembled the gear last night on the 3.5 inch gauge version I have to view the thing rotating, and why the bar moves.

 

I think I will leave the orders in place, as Heljan still say  by email that some more supplies are coming through from the first batches, then there will be a gap till 2018 and resumption of deliveries.

[dibber25]

Certainly looks like Heljan have bitten off more than they can chew, for the moment. It seems a sensible decision to transfer to another manufacturer or revise the design to get it right. But I am confused . Given that they have by default accepted that there is something that needs fixing and presumably the existing design is deficient, does that mean they are recalling the models that are already out there ? I do have sympathy for the manufacturer. In the case of the defective Clayton they replaced the motorised chassis after about a year which must have cost them dearly. Will they be doing the same here ?

 

I hope that the model press will be reporting these issues, as not everyone uses the internet, as has been pointed out before . I'd feel sorry for the consumer whose valve gear on this model may be deficient. They need to know there is an issue and what's being done about it, I suppose also who to return the loco to , although this should be the retailer that sold them the item. Will they get a replacement at same price or will they simply get money back and have to renew order at new price.

The model press cannot report issues based on hearsay. We can only report based on what we find or experience with our own sample and, as we are not now likely to receive ours until the new batch is released at some time in the future, we're unlikely to be reporting anything beyond the fact that the model has been delayed due to problems with those initially released. (CJL)

[tractionman]

for those who want a Lynton & Barnstaple 759 'Yeo', they are in stock at Hereford Model Centre for just less than £190:

 

http://herefordmodels.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=340_346&products_id=9877&zenid=f4531ca33c77e9fb0c58ef4f9ae5fc45

 

HMC test-run before despatch.

 

cheers,

 

Keith

[No Decorum]

I wonder how long they test run them for. Probably not long enough for the reported problems to emerge. Still, it must be said, Hereford deserves praise for testing at all.

[PaulRhB]

I wonder how long they test run them for. Probably not long enough for the reported problems to emerge.

So what time should that be then?

 

As some have run for hours without issue there's no time you can say definitely!

 

They come with a warranty so you're covered,

 

Heljan are addressing the underlying problem and have said when they will be out. If people on here buy now then they know what the possible problem is with these and that it can be either fixed by them or they will have to wait until next year for replacements.

[Stevelewis]

I wonder how long they test run them for. Probably not long enough for the reported problems to emerge. Still, it must be said, Hereford deserves praise for testing at all.

 

Its  very  hard  to   say  when  or  if  at  all   the  failure  of  the valve  gear will occur,  my  2  failed  at  around  2  hours  and  around  20 hours  use  ( by that I mean actual  running on a  continuous  run  layout  with  gradients  and several points.)

I know   of  at  least  one new loco out of  the  box,   which  was  placed on  the  track,  started off  came  to  the  first  curved track   and  off popped  the  valve  gear on  one side,  others   I am aware  of  have  continued  to run  without  too many  problems

[MGR Hooper!]

I wonder how long they test run them for. Probably not long enough for the reported problems to emerge. Still, it must be said, Hereford deserves praise for testing at all.

Not all companies run them for hours on end. It must have only been a short period when they shot videos

[Legend]

Advertised at Model Railways Direct @£209 , as well as Hereford as above. Looks like someone's getting them in stock. I'd sure hate to spend £209 , or even half as much, on something that's got a defect to such an extent that the manufacturer is delaying and changing manufacture of the next batch to get it right .

 

While I appreciate Herefords service, it's served me well on a number of Hornby purchases, I don't think they can test the loco for hours. If there is a known defect here I cannot see why Heljan are not recalling the lot until it is resolved.

[PaulRhB]

Well they originally said they were fixing the second tranche and putting them on sale, they changed that last week and advised they had withdrawn them. Where this batch has come from isn't known. It could be from the fixed ones from Heljan but it's not what they told Hattons.

[Stevelewis]

Well they originally said they were fixing the second tranche and putting them on sale, they changed that last week and advised they had withdrawn them. Where this batch has come from isn't known. It could be from the fixed ones from Heljan but it's not what they told Hattons.

 

The Mystery deepens  

 

Particularly as  some  have  appeared  on  eBay advertised  as 'New'  but  it would appear  that  the  retailers  who would expected to  have  received  some, have not had  any,  one such  retailer  I spoke to  this week  said  none  had been  offered to him,  and  he  has  actually   reduced  his order  for  the  next production significantly

[Phil Parker]

If anyone is after an original L&B livery version, Classic Train & Motor Bus in Leamington Spa have one and very nice it looks too.

[Stevelewis]

If anyone is after an original L&B livery version, Classic Train & Motor Bus in Leamington Spa have one and very nice it looks too.

 

It  has  to be  agreed  they  do  look  very  nice, it  is  unfortunate  that  so  many  have  failed,  if  mu 2  had  not  failed  I would  still be  developing  my  largish  L&B  themed 009 layout,  but  for  the  ttime  being  I have  thinned  out  the rest  of my L&B  stock  and  layout  building  time  is  now  back  to  the BR(S)  ( a  rather  nice  loco  was  delivered  today from SLW)

[bertiedog]

The main problems are a shortfall in numbers delivered to dealers with long lists of pre orders that could never be honoured. Quite another separate issue are the bogies and the valve gear.

 

It is not simply a matter of transferring orders to another dealer who has received some part of his order, as at the very least I deal only with a company having a good track record etc.

 

The now long delays returning are Heljans problem, and made worst for them by their confused communications to enquiries about the situation.

 

It really needs a better communication between the Heljan dealers and the company to properly calculate the demand, priorities pre-orders, perhaps with deposits.

[Roy Langridge]

The main problems are a shortfall in numbers delivered to dealers with long lists of pre orders that could never be honoured. Quite another separate issue are the bogies and the valve gear.

 

It is not simply a matter of transferring orders to another dealer who has received some part of his order, as at the very least I deal only with a company having a good track record etc.

 

The now long delays returning are Heljans problem, and made worst for them by their confused communications to enquiries about the situation.

 

It really needs a better communication between the Heljan dealers and the company to properly calculate the demand, priorities pre-orders, perhaps with deposits.

Blimey Stephen, don't you go on? What prompted you to suddenly return to this problem which, quite frankly, you seem to have told us about so many times.

 

As said before, give it a rest.

 

Roy

Edited September 8, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[rockershovel]

It's all a bit of a shame, isn't it? Still, hey-ho... those who have them will either work out how to make best use of them, or sell them; those who didn't receive their orders, will, or won't get them; they will settle into the hands of (some of) those who want them, and we might see some pics of these (mostly) rather striking models in use?

 

I dare say there will be another batch in due course, but I imagine that won't be soon.

[Stevelewis]

I think really  that  this  subject  has been  totally  discussed now  and  that  all we  should  do  is  wait  and  see,  It  was  a great disappointment to many  including myself  that  the  locos were faulty ( although some  apparently  are still proving faultless)

 

I have personally  re thought my 009 plans  and wil be pursuing a  freelance 009  theme,  which  will release me  from  having  solely L&B stock, ( in other  words  Rule 1 I will run  what takes my  fancy!)

 

I may buy a  single MW  when  I know  they  work OK,  may even repaint  it  who knows,  however  as  has  been  stated  before  I don't  think  that  the  'revised' MWs will arrive  that  quickly.

 

Some retailers I  deal with  have  said   they  have actually  reduced  their order levels for the locomotive

Edited September 7, 2017 by Stevelewis

[roundhouse]

I will wait till nearer the time I am notified by Hattons but if the price massively jumps from that when I ordered them then I may well cancel but we shall see. Certainly will hold off buying any more 009 till them although I do have enough stock for a new layout.

[Stevelewis]

I will wait till nearer the time I am notified by Hattons but if the price massively jumps from that when I ordered them then I may well cancel but we shall see. Certainly will hold off buying any more 009 till them although I do have enough stock for a new layout.

 

Yes  price  will be  a  factor  I  think,  considering  that  the  latest  prices  appear to  be  £60+ more  than  the  original £146 discount  price  ( although  that  was listed 4+yrs ago and  things  have  changed a bit  since then)

Makes  Bachmann's 4-6-0T Baldwin price look  quite attractive

[Edge]

Well official RRP was always £189.95, and there were plenty of folks selling the first batch of models at £209 as well, so I dont think any current prices at that level are based  around improvements in the model but perhaps around the rarity of the model now?

[JSpencer]

Like others I will see in Q1 2018. To date, I have been told my pre-order price (less than £140) will be honored. If they cannot, I doubt I will be able to afford, but we'll see.

 

Personally though,  I am glad Heljan have communicated that there were issues and they are looking to address them and it was certainly the right thing to do. Full credit to them for doing that.

[Hobby]

Personally though,  I am glad Heljan have communicated that there were issues and they are looking to address them and it was certainly the right thing to do. Full credit to them for doing that.

 

Eventually...

[Roy Langridge]

Eventually...

 

Perhaps a little understanding of why it may have taken Heljan so long may not go amiss? If they have pulled production from a factory, and are incurring additional costs in moving production, it may well be that the lawyers have been involved and that comment could not be made for fear of breaching existing contracts. I have been in such a position with my work before now, desperate to let customers know what is going on, but legally unable to do so.

 

Roy

[JSpencer]

Before getting that far, they would need to review the situation. They are hardly going to knee jerk out replies based on a few posts here. They have needed time to measure the gravity of the "challenge" , define what to do, put into place the action plan and only once there was some certitude, communicate to us mortals.

 

Communicating first thoughts, second thoughts extra will just cause more confusion and frustration.

 

We know now that behind the scenes they did something and we can expect something in 2018. Very positive move.

[No Decorum]

Before getting that far, they would need to review the situation. They are hardly going to knee jerk out replies based on a few posts here. They have needed time to measure the gravity of the "challenge" , define what to do, put into place the action plan and only once there was some certitude, communicate to us mortals.

 

Communicating first thoughts, second thoughts extra will just cause more confusion and frustration.

 

We know now that behind the scenes they did something and we can expect something in 2018. Very positive move.

I quite agree. It took time to sort out the Class 17s but in the end, whole new chassis were provided to us. That sort of thing cannot be done quickly and Heljan, to its credit, resolved the problem. It cannot have been cheap.