Lynton & Barnstaple OO9 Loco from Heljan

[Nile]

As my 16 year-old son observed, "Don't Heljan test the design?"

 

Perhaps their test track is perfectly flat. A proper test should have shown up these design flaws.

[Hobby]

Perhaps their test track is perfectly flat

 

without points...

[Stevelewis]

Having  observed 2  'New  Batch'  MWs running  on a  friends  layout  ( I say  running ...that  is  a loose  description of what  they are  doing in reality!!)  it  appears to me  that  they  perform worse  than  the  first  batch from the  original factory

[Legend]

You might have thought that after the troubles of the first batch the second batch would be extensively tested , curves , gradients the lot. I’m afraid that it just conjours the picture that Heljan just want the cash regardless of what they send out . In model railway enthusiasts they have an easy target. The natural enthusiasm to get that must have Model and a prediliction to sort out issues themselves .

Edited December 22, 2018 by Legend

[rockershovel]

The loco now easily hauls four coaches around the tight curves

That really is what those models are intended for, isn’t it? Also, I think, what 009 should be, a small railway in a large landscape rather than a 4mm scale model in a 2mm scale space...

[rockershovel]

You might have thought that after the troubles of the first batch the second batch would be extensively tested , curves , gradients the lot. I’m afraid that it just conjours the picture that Heljan just want the cash regardless of what they send out . In model railway enthusiasts they have an easy target. The natural enthusiasm to get that must have Model and a prediliction to sort out issues themselves .

What I find surprising is that it’s not as though 2mm scale, 9mm gauge locos with working motion were anything new, by now. You’d have thought that the design would have been well understood?

[Pre Grouping fan]

It was heljans first attempt at anything 9mm gauge as far a I know so they can be let off a bit but even more reason to have done more thorough testing

[PaulRhB]

The thing is they got the difficult bits almost right. Compared to the serious shape issues of some other models this is annoying but not costly to fix for them.

[roundhouse]

Ok I know they should get them right to work straight off but with a bit of care, adjustments can be done as long as the valvegear doesn’t fall apart again. I look forward to getting a replacement TAW and will fettle that. Hopefully Heljan will do the same for the next batch of these locos.

[locoholic]

Hopefully Heljan will do the same for the next batch of these locos.

That's what we said last time...

[PaulRhB]

It does seem odd that they’ve resdesigned several things like the chassis block which were fine and the ponies but still not got them to work well. I had another tinker with mine this morning and the pony is launching off halfway along the switch’s blade. The back to backs are all fine and the contacts lightly on the flanges. If I pull them down to force it down then it makes the drivers slip! I can’t find a happy medium at present.

I’m wondering if the drivetrain under power is slewing it across just enough to cause the issue because you can push it through with no problem.

One of the times having an open chassis would make it so easy to see what’s going on!

[Stevelewis]

It does seem odd that they’ve resdesigned several things like the chassis block which were fine and the ponies but still not got them to work well. I had another tinker with mine this morning and the pony is launching off halfway along the switch’s blade. The back to backs are all fine and the contacts lightly on the flanges. If I pull them down to force it down then it makes the drivers slip! I can’t find a happy medium at present.

I’m wondering if the drivetrain under power is slewing it across just enough to cause the issue because you can push it through with no problem.

One of the times having an open chassis would make it so easy to see what’s going on!

 

Referring  back  to  the  original  production of  which as  many know  I had 3  but all  eventually failed  with  valve  gear  failure,   I was  able  to  easily  rectify  the  shortcomings  of  the ponies and  couplings, whilst  doing  this  I ran  the  locos in a dismantled  state ie body off  and  ponies removed  so they  were  simply  an 0-6-0  chassis I was very  impressed at  how  well they   performed, brilliant  slow  running ,   no  problems  with power collection even on dead frog points, so there  was  actually no real need  for power collection from the  ponies.

I also  found  that  the  haulage  or  should   I say  propelling was good in  the 0-6-0 chassis state  5 Peco L&B bogies  up a  1 in  30 gradient was  possible

 

Referring  to   Pauls  comment above re  slewing,  I am not    sure on  this point but  on the  new  versions  is  the  driving wheel side play  not a  little less than  version  one?

Edited December 22, 2018 by Stevelewis

[N15class]

If they don't work and are not of a sellable quality. Send back get a refund. The maker will then get the message, and either get it right or not try and make things they can't.

 

Would you buy a car and take it home and adjust things so the wheels stayed on the ground. Just because it's a hobby doesn't mean you have to make do with sub quality items.

Edited December 22, 2018 by N15class

[PaulRhB]

True but I’m pretty sure there won’t be a third attempt so the option would be the existing kits. As you say the basic 0-6-0 runs very well so for the inconvenience of sorting the ponies I’ll persist until I find the fix.

My first batch model runs well and rarely has any issue with derailing and while the ponies swing freely and with tweaking up and down something is forcing them up on the curve.

[PaulRhB]

You can see here that the pony inside wheel is lifted so the flange is above the rail and the next step is the outer one pops off and it’s off the rails. This is happening to both ponies. I tried a wedge to hold the frames out wider on the back end but it still lifts and you can see the wheel stopping as it catches the frame so the inner end of the wheel is rubbing.

Edited December 22, 2018 by PaulRhB

[rockershovel]

You can see here that the pony inside wheel is lifted so the flange is above the rail and the next step is the outer one pops off and it’s off the rails. This is happening to both ponies. I tried a wedge to hold the frames out wider on the back end but it still lifts and you can see the wheel stopping as it catches the frame so the inner end of the wheel is rubbing.

3BE01884-748A-4998-A540-FCF1CD296CA7.jpeg

Not a new problem - here’s a 1950s (?) model by the late David Manders

 

Hornby have done something similar with their Pacifics

 

In the “prototype for everything” department, I seem to recall that Russell ran as an 0-6-2 for similar reasons.

Edited December 23, 2018 by rockershovel

[D9020 Nimbus]

I've found that these locos will successfully negotiate Kato Unitrack #6 points without any issues. They will not however negotiate the curved route through Kato #4 points in the facing direction (though they can negotiate it in the trailing direction) but have no issues with the straight route.

 

This is a big loco by 2' gauge standards—about as long as a standard gauge "Terrier"—so it's not surprising that it might have difficulties on 12" radius points: Kato #6 points are equivalent to 718mm radius.

Edited December 23, 2018 by D9020 Nimbus

[Stevelewis]

I've found that these locos will successfully negotiate Kato Unitrack #6 points without any issues. They will not however negotiate the curved route through Kato #4 points in the facing direction (though they can negotiate it in the trailing direction) but have no issues with the straight route.

 

This is a big loco by 2' gauge standards—about as long as a standard gauge "Terrier"—so it's not surprising that it might have difficulties on 12" radius points: Kato #6 points are equivalent to 718mm radius.

 

are   you  referring  to  the  NEW  batch  or  the  OLD  original  batch?

 

I Had  no  problems  with  my  3  OLD batch  on  any  Kato Unitrack  points or  scissors  crossing  ( fiddle  yard on an N gauge  layout)   once  the  pickups on the  ponies  had  been removed.

 

My  NEW  batch Loco   (which  has  now been returned  due  to   motion coning  apart)    ran  briefly  on  the  same  formation  of Unitrack,  it  was  Jerky  probably due  to  the  motion failing but  ran  through all  the different  Unitrack point  types  without actually derailing

Edited December 23, 2018 by Stevelewis

[D9020 Nimbus]

Unmodified new batch locos. Wasn't too surprised they had issues on the #4 points as they are tricky with some other stock. Mine have so far had no issues with the valve gear and run pretty smoothly.

[Stevelewis]

Unmodified new batch locos. Wasn't too surprised they had issues on the #4 points as they are tricky with some other stock. Mine have so far had no issues with the valve gear and run pretty smoothly.

 

I have  used  Kato  Unitrack   for  various   things  since  it  was  first  imported  by  MG Sharp!   We  have  used  it  to  run  many  brands on as  well as  Kato,  Fleischmann, Roko, Arnold, Lemke  and  some  of  the  H0e brands  such  as  Stangl, Ferro Train, Roco & Bemo  but  never  really  experienced  any problems  with  any  Kato Unitrack  points.  We  always  regret  that  the  Double slip  which  was  announced  Mnay  years  ago  never  materialised!

[D9020 Nimbus]

But have you used the #4 points? There's been quite a lot of coverage, over the years, of stock having issues on these points (the #6 points are a quite different design, and don't seem to generate any issues). For instance, Peco 'N' gauge wagons often derail on the #4 points (but not, oddly enough, Peco 009 wagons). Stock with larger flanges, such as "old" Farish, also has issues.

 

Not surprised they didn't do a double slip—the range is mainly aimed at the US where double slips are not very common AFAIK. Nearly all the European set-track ranges have double slips—they are very common in Germany.

[Stevelewis]

From  my  communications  with  Kato  I understand  that  the  bulk  of  their  Track  business   is  purchased  in  Japan  with   USA  purchasing  approx 70%  of  the  Japanese  annual sales.

 

Yes    I use  Kato  No4s  &  6s  in approx  equal  numbers  mostly   for  fiddle  yard / storage loop purpses

 

As  I  mentioned  earlier  I  have  used  Unitrack  since  its  first  importation into  the  UK  by MG Sharp Models  ( Sheffield)  in  the  early  days  it  was   sometimes  in  very  short  supply

[Nile]

To add some context to this, as these aren't the only RTR locos to have had problems in recent years, here are some others off the top of my head.

 

Bachmann LNWR Coal Tank - Driving wheel pick-ups sitting too low and catching on pointwork. A simple fix if you know what you are doing.

 

Bachmann LBSCR E4 - Trailing wheelset can derail on some points. It's design is even worse than Heljan's! No known solution.

 

Oxford Rail Adams Radial - Front bogie NEM socket hits buffer beam causing problems with gradients. Cured by a design change (well done Oxford).

 

The above suggests a lack of proper testing by manufacturers.

[sjgardiner]

Mine was finally collected from the post office, post office tried to deliver on Dec 23, but we were away and conceierge at our condo can’t take packages with tax owing at the border. Between holidays and work/evening events, was finally able to pick it up yesterday. Haven’t got it out of the box yet, but a first inspection and test run is hopefully in the cards for today.

 

Stephen

[sjgardiner]

Well, the early returns are in after about half an hour of running in in both directions, and I am very happy with my Taw. Nothing fell off or exploded or did anything else untoward. There is a couple of spots on my test loop where it sounds like something may be clacking, but its the exact same spot on the circuit each time which makes me suspect its more the track than the locomotive, as if it was motion rubbing it should happen at the same point in the rotation of the motion, not the circling of the locomotive.

 

Some quicky videos from my phone while running it in. I'll be writing a blog post this evening with more thoughts and update with the link when its written.

 

 

 

 

The only question I have, given how lousy the Heljan instruction sheet is, is where to parts 81/82 get installed, and what are they?

 

Cheers,

 

Stephen