Bachmann 64xx Panniers

[The Johnster]

Ouch!  Have to say this sounds unusual for a Baccy 64, which seems to attract comment for it's quiet and smooth running.  Mine isn't perfect, but ok for passenger work.  Was yours secondhand?  I ask because I know that particular retailer does do secondhand locos, and they are alway a bit of a punt unless you can actually see them running.  It sounds as if yours has never been lubricated at all, or the grease has dried out because the loco has not been stored properly.  if it's brand new, it'd be interesting (but probably not possible) to find out how long ago it was manufactured, but this is a relatively recent model and it can't be that long!  

 

Just goes to show that Baccy's QC is good, but not perfect.  Nobody's is.  Glad you have resolved the issue!

[BWsTrains]

I recently bought a Bachmann 64xx No.6419 in BR late crest weathered. I bought it via the online shop at the "H" lot in Liverpool.

I tested it in DC mode like I test all new acquisitions, I use an old Gauge Master rolling road/12v railway controller but I don't use the rolling road part of it which is on the top. I use a separate piece of track with DCC Concepts rollers. I use the Gauge Master because it comes with a amp meter.

Well the 64xx was registering 0.8 amps and the control knob needed to be at 65 just to get the loco wheels to move. The loco had a horrible grinding sound and a definite smell of burning. So I quickly stopped it.

I took the loco apart and the visible gear train seemed bone dry. So I lubricated it with Labelle 107 model grease. I then reassembled the loco and placed it back onto the rollers.

It made a huge difference. No longer smelling of burning the loco's wheels started turning very easily and the amp meter read less than 0.05.

When I test locos on the rollers I run the loco for one hour in each direction. I ran the 64xx in forward and reverse for one hour each way.

I'm always wary of buying locos from the "H" lot in Liverpool as they don't test locos before shipping. It really is a case of Russian roulette, yet I've had other locos from them like a recently purchased Bachmann 4F that run sweetly right out of the box. 

 

From a fellow Aus, here, you can always request a test before dispatch. Normally I do, given the impossibility of return because of high cost. They then come with "Tested by "H"" sticker and I guess in event of issue they'd then be up for cost of return.

 

BTW see my earlier post here, my new 6424 had a bad grinding noise which was due to gear rubbing against back of Cab plate. I had to resort to surgery to fix to my satisfaction as it was the one time I'd skipped the test request!. Check to ensure the lube you applied didn't just solve that issue for a short while. It appears to be a design fault with the gear aligned too near that part of the body causing it to grate. Others have reported similar issue.

 

Have also bought 2 pre-owned Baccy pannier locos from them and am 100% satisfied given originals are no longer available.

Edited July 18, 2017 by BWsTrains

[coachmann]

A couple of us have had a go at the 64XX centre drivers and bearings to ensure they are always in contact with the rails. It is DCC-Sound with no stay-alive 'cos of lack of space, yet it never lets me down. As for the Airfix/Hornby auto trailer, it may please some folk but, realistically it falls far short of today's high expectations (thick window pillars and crude bogies minus tiebars).

Edited July 18, 2017 by coachmann

[faulcon1]

Ouch!  Have to say this sounds unusual for a Baccy 64, which seems to attract comment for it's quiet and smooth running.  Mine isn't perfect, but ok for passenger work.  Was yours secondhand?  I ask because I know that particular retailer does do secondhand locos, and they are alway a bit of a punt unless you can actually see them running.  It sounds as if yours has never been lubricated at all, or the grease has dried out because the loco has not been stored properly.  if it's brand new, it'd be interesting (but probably not possible) to find out how long ago it was manufactured, but this is a relatively recent model and it can't be that long!  

 

Just goes to show that Baccy's QC is good, but not perfect.  Nobody's is.  Glad you have resolved the issue!

The Johnster: The loco was brand new and I have had other Baccy locos where none of the pick ups touched the wheel backs but after a bit or "work" on the work bench everything is fine. But never before have I had a loco that ran so rough out of the box with a burning smell thrown in for good measure. But all is ok now. Living in Australia and sending the locos back isn't really an option. I've had problems with Hornby locos where the valve gear disintegrates whilst it's running. Never had that problem on Baccy locos......yet. 

[The Johnster]

A couple of us have had a go at the 64XX centre drivers and bearings to ensure they are always in contact with the rails. It is DCC-Sound with no stay-alive 'cos of lack of space, yet it never lets me down. As for the Airfix/Hornby auto trailer, it may please some folk but, realistically it falls far short of today's high expectations (thick window pillars and crude bogies minus tiebars).

 

Your standards are known to be of the very highest, coachmann.  The Hornby A30 (it is nearer to that than anything else) is what it is, a 1970s model from 1970s tooling, and with that in mind is out of it's depth in the modern world.  I run mine coupled to a Baccy A38, which shows it up dreadfully, especially the steps.  The crude bogies can of course be easily replaced and the model generally 'worked up', but the thick body sides let it down badly at the windows, especially at the ventilator toplights.  There are faults I can live with, though, and I can live with my A30, not that I wouldn't replace it in a heartbeat if something better was available, especially something like an N which, like the A38, I know worked out of Tondu.

 

But as as far as I remember, A30s had 9' Collett bogies without tiebars, which are correctly modelled, albeit not to modern standards of crispness and relief.  The steps are more of a let down to my mind.  It isn't bad for £30.

[coachmann]

But as as far as I remember, A30s had 9' Collett bogies without tiebars, which are correctly modelled, albeit not to modern standards of crispness and relief.

 

 They were as I said......9' Plate. The real ones had tiebars.

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by coachmann

[tomparryharry]

Hi folks. Slightly off topic, but please bear with me.

 

In your opinion, is it possible to remove the topfeed on the 64xx pannier? Or, is this a carve up/carve out job? As you probably know, I'm very interested in slightly backdating the pannier, hopefully to pair up with an earlier autocoach (I do live in hope, you know!). Hopefully, I'm looking to re-create 6425, with plain green, roundel, and no topfeed.

 

Any information or tips will be gratefully received.

 

Many thanks,

 

Ian.

Edited July 21, 2017 by tomparryharry

[cctransuk]

Hi folks. Slightly off topic, but please bear with me.

 

In your opinion, is it possible to remove the topfeed on the 64xx pannier? Or, is this a carve up/carve out job? As you probably know, I'm very interested in slightly backdating the pannier, hopefully to pair up with an earlier autocoach (I do live in hope, you know!). Hopefully, I'm looking to re-create 6425, with plain green, roundel, and no topfeed.

 

Any information or tips will be gratefully received.

 

Many thanks,

 

Ian.

 

Try a pair of pliers.

 

Failing that, a pair of Xuron cutters, a Stanley knife, a file / emery board & wet & dry paper.

 

Simples !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[The Johnster]

 

 They were as I said......9' Plate. The real ones had tiebars.

 

 

You are absolutely correct, sir, 9' heavy duty bogies had tiebars; I'd just never noticed them before.  I will now have to add them on my A30's bogies, which will still not be correct but will be less incorrect.  Now I'll have to check that the Baccy bogies on my A38 are correct as well!

 

the A28 conversion is looking more like a flyer all the time, but I doubt my ability to cut the driver's door out cleanly enough to have it flush to the sides without a massive gap all round it.

[PMP]

Hi folks. Slightly off topic, but please bear with me.

 

In your opinion, is it possible to remove the topfeed on the 64xx pannier?

 

Many thanks,

 

Ian.

 

https://albionyard.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/img_4395.jpg

 

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2015/04/28/pannier-progress-2/

 

It's a fair bit of work, don't forget all the feed pipes need removal too, and the plates/rivets repaired/replaced once they've gone. You might also need to add the lubricators underneath the tanks around the centre driver too, if that loco had them fitted in your era.

Edited July 22, 2017 by PMP

[tomparryharry]

https://albionyard.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/img_4395.jpg

 

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2015/04/28/pannier-progress-2/

 

It's a fair bit of work, don't forget all the feed pipes need removal too, and the plates/rivets repaired/replaced once they've gone. You might also need to add the lubricators underneath the tanks around the centre driver too, if that loco had them fitted in your era.

  Hmmm. £85, before you start messing about with the body. Damn your hide, Bachmann!

 

Ian

[The Johnster]

Hi folks. Slightly off topic, but please bear with me.

 

In your opinion, is it possible to remove the topfeed on the 64xx pannier? Or, is this a carve up/carve out job? As you probably know, I'm very interested in slightly backdating the pannier, hopefully to pair up with an earlier autocoach (I do live in hope, you know!). Hopefully, I'm looking to re-create 6425, with plain green, roundel, and no topfeed.

 

Any information or tips will be gratefully received.

 

Many thanks,

 

Ian.

 

i'd have to agree with PMP that it's a lot of work, and you stand a good chance of messing it up.  The removal of the top feed, pipes and detail plus replacement and 'making good' is, IMHOFWIW, not worth it.  If you can source a Westward kit, even a badly made one, and use the body parts of that, life will be much easier, though fitting it to the Baccy chassis could be a faff.  I built the Westward many years ago and the kit allows all variants to be constructed, top feeds, cabs, splashers for 54xx, separately fitted auto details you can leave off for 74xx.  I have binned the remains of mine, sadly, or you would have been welcome to them.

 

It might be worth approaching Baccy to see if they'll sell you a body moulding; that way you'll be looking at less of an investment to write off if it all goes wrong, as you'll still have a complete undamaged 64xx at the end of the day, abeit one with a top feed you don't want, but better than none at all.

Edited July 23, 2017 by The Johnster

[coachmann]

i'd have to agree with PMP that it's a lot of work, and you stand a good chance of messing it up.  The removal of the top feed, pipes and detail plus replacement and 'making good' is, IMHOFWIW, not worth it.  If you can source a Westward kit, even a badly made one, and use the body parts of that, life will be much easier, though fitting it to the Baccy chassis could be a faff.  I built the Westward many years ago and the kit allows all variants to be constructed, top feeds, cabs, splashers for 54xx, separately fitted auto details you can leave off for 74xx. 

Brian Brown of Westward Models is a very old friend and we were conversing by email only this morning. Interestingly he runs Bachmann 64XX and 74XX he converted from the former, not his own kits. Being a modeller of the old school, he would think nothing of removing a simple feature like a top-feed. 

 

I wonder if anyone remembers the RTR Brass Panniers that were available in the 1980's. We used to do all sorts of alterations to them, but even straight out of the box, one had to drill out the buffer beams in order to fit the supplied spring buffers and couplings. I suspect It would scare the hell out of people who expect RTR to mean just that.

Edited July 23, 2017 by coachmann

[tomparryharry]

Brian Brown of Westward Models is a very old friend and we were conversing by email only this morning. Interestingly he runs Bachmann 64XX and 74XX he converted from the former, not his own kits. Being a modeller of the old school, he would think nothing of removing a simple feature like a top-feed. 

 

I wonder if anyone remembers the RTR Brass Panniers that were available in the 1980's. We used to do all sorts of alterations to them, but even straight out of the box, one had to drill out the buffer beams in order to fit the supplied spring buffers and couplings. I suspect It would scare the hell out of people who expect RTR to mean just that.

 Thanks for that, Coachman. My skills are slowly improving, but I don't now when I'll be able to re-commence doing any serious modelling. I'd guess I'll like it to add the 64xx to the to-do list, if only to further accrue some degree of desire to finish stuff off. Right now, it's just RTR. The Taff Vale stuff will have to wait!

 

Many thanks,

Ian  

[The Johnster]

Brian Brown of Westward Models is a very old friend and we were conversing by email only this morning. Interestingly he runs Bachmann 64XX and 74XX he converted from the former, not his own kits. Being a modeller of the old school, he would think nothing of removing a simple feature like a top-feed. 

 

I wonder if anyone remembers the RTR Brass Panniers that were available in the 1980's. We used to do all sorts of alterations to them, but even straight out of the box, one had to drill out the buffer beams in order to fit the supplied spring buffers and couplings. I suspect It would scare the hell out of people who expect RTR to mean just that.

 

You can tell him how much I enjoyed both building and running his 64xx if you like, and I probably would not have bought the Baccy if it hadn't died on me after 25 years in storage being kicked around various dodgy flats and bedsits.  It was the best running model I ever owned.  It's dome and safety valve cover live on on top of my Hornby 2721, as does the turned brass chimney I bought for it at some long forgotten show.  I remember the RTR Brass panniers, and seem to recall a 45xx as well; astonishingly good models especially when you considered that they were Japanese, with all the research issues that must have involved in those pre-google days.  I'd have been pretty scared of taking a drill to anything that expensive, though.  They were superbly made and some must still be running; I guess if you wanted one on eBay you'd have to just send an open cheque and let the seller fill in the noughts...

Edited July 23, 2017 by The Johnster

[Rail-Online]

  I remember the RTR Brass panniers, ............................. I guess if you wanted one on eBay you'd have to just send an open cheque and let the seller fill in the noughts...

Actually I think they were Korean, and plenty are still around, £160 from Manchester, there are others at £209 buy it now on flea-bay

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RTR-Brass-LTD-ED-GWR-0-6-0T-Pannier-Tank-Loco-Brass-Model-Flat-Cab-Version-/282556281045?hash=item41c9aab0d5:g:9lsAAOSwvjdZQ8Zr

 

Tony

Edited July 23, 2017 by Rail-Online

[The Johnster]

Korean, apologies to anyone from that amazing country.  Beyond my pocket even secondhand, but nice to know some are still around, and from what I remember of them, a thoroughly recommended buy; very finescale, highly detailed, and perfect running little masterpieces, hand build IIRC.  I'd say the Bachmann 45xx/4575 is about as good as any reasonable person should expect from an rtr plastic model, and not far off as good as you'd be able to do in plastic, but compare the photo here of the gubbins on the footplate above the motion bracket; here it looks like a piece of machinery and on the Baccy it looks like a blob.  Many people seemed to think that painting them spoiled them, and were I to ever own one I think i'd have to spring for a professional paint job.  That said, the Baccy has a gubbins on top of the tank behind the filler cap that this one doesn't, and has glazing in the cab windows.  I have been glazing my cab windows, or attempting to, since I was about 10, as I think not having it makes a loco look like a scrapper.  Look at those front steps; beautiful.  Big can motor IIRC, Mashima? 

 

And kudos to whoever researched the model, designed it, and built it; to get it so right from the other side of the world in pre-internat and pre-CAD days is no mean achievement.

[57xx]

  Hmmm. £85, before you start messing about with the body. Damn your hide, Bachmann!

 

That's why I'm waiting (very very patiently) for spare bodies to appear on ebay. 

[The Fatadder]

That's why I'm waiting (very very patiently) for spare bodies to appear on ebay.

When they do appear they seem to sell for a fair amount compared with other loco shells. Think mine was north of £30. Still haven't built a high level chassis to go under it...

 

I also have a Westwood cast kit, purchased from Re6/6 shortly before I obtained the above. This will likely be finished as a non topfeed example initially at least dead in tow SN route to NA works

Edited July 23, 2017 by The Fatadder

[57xx]

When they do appear they seem to sell for a fair amount compared with other loco shells. Think mine was north of £30. Still haven't built a high level chassis to go under it...

 

I've not seen any on there yet (not in a big rush and don't look often) but I got some of those ridiculously cheap 87xx bodies that were on there a while ago and started removing the top feed, safe in the knowledge that any cock up on my part would not be sending a large amount of ££ down the drain.

Edited July 23, 2017 by 57xx

[gwrrob]

After my struggle fitting a crew to their 3mt standard 3 tank I thought I'd ask the Bachmann service department how to do it on the 64xx. Removing the body will not help as the cab has a floor you can't access. The best way to fix crew is through the cab doors and gluing them so they get support from inside the cab. An arm resting etc.

[ndg910]

I don't have a 64xx but on the 57xx/8750, the bunker and weight is secured by two screws below the running plate and is easily removed giving easy access. Hope that helps.

[The Johnster]

Sadly, not much.  I have got a fireman into my 64xx through the side opening, a very awkward way of doing it and I was glad the driver was headed for the cab of the auto trailer.  The bunker weight can be removed with the screws as ndg says, and this at least means you can put real coal in there and not have to have it full up, but the backsheet of the cab is plastic and integral as part of the same moulding as the front and roof.  It will bend upwards and forwards, but there is an obvious risk of breaking the front off where the strain line is just below the front cab windows that I am reluctant to take.  I have a similar issue with a 4575 that I have not been able to put a crew on board of yet, and a Hornby 42xx has defeated me as well.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if manufacturers made cab roofs removable, perhaps fixing them with weak glue so we could lever 'em off with small screwdrivers and glue 'em back when we'd finished putting crews, tea cans, fire irons and whatnot in there?  A possible dodge with panniers is to model the sliding side weather protection sheet which was behind the cab side on these engines; I model South Wales where the weather is sufficiently inclement to make this feasible.  All you need is a sheet of plastic glued on behind the cab cutout and back as far as the door bar a scale inch or so, still fiddly but not as bad as fitting a crew member in the position you want.  This serves the purpose of hiding the crewless state of the loco fairly well, and is a dodge I used to use in the old days to hide a motor that protruded into the cab of my K's 8750.

 

The other option seems to be to cut the cab floor out and make up a new one with the crew and any other details attached to it before you fix it to the loco, which feels a bit drastic, at least until the loco is a few years old and you've forgotten how much you just spent on it!

Edited August 22, 2017 by The Johnster

[ndg910]

Oh. That's a shame as on other gwr panniers the back of the cab is the front of the bunker. Something to remember as am waiting for a Great Western version instead of GWR. Too many other projects to do myself.

[Captain Kernow]

The other option seems to be to cut the cab floor out and make up a new one with the crew and any other details attached to it before you fix it to the loco, which feels a bit drastic, at least until the loco is a few years old and you've forgotten how much you just spent on it!

I know that the price can make such work daunting, but if that's what's required to achieve the 'look', then as far as I'm concerned, it's got to be done!

 

I have two 64XX, one is too be converted to a 74XX in due course.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Captain Kernow