Wolf27 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Hi Shane, Without going too far I will say that the picture on the website is very possibly a pre production mock up due to production and publishing deadlines. It is possible to spot several differences between the website picture and the actual model of the Bullied if you know what to look for. As for the Jinty - it does look more like a Bachmann version rather than a Hornby - I wonder why?. The finish on the Bullied can vary a little between examples but is certainly not the worst so far. That 'honour' is held by the Deltic - which suffered several production problems resulting in the terrible standard of finish on the models that reached the shops. Regards Point out what the differences are, to all intents and purposes these are the models that get released. I understand about the concept of a pre production or mock up but do you think they will go to the trouble of making a pre production version? Given the quality of the finish of a number of releases, they are obviousely failing to grasp the concept of a pre production mock up. I have five Deltics and only one is bad, the others are average. Some of your comments imply that you have some connection with GBL, such as refering to production problems and that some of these models may dissapoint. Care to elaborate? cheers Shane Hi Shane, Without going too far I will say that the picture on the website is very possibly a pre production mock up due to production and publishing deadlines. It is possible to spot several differences between the website picture and the actual model of the Bullied if you know what to look for. As for the Jinty - it does look more like a Bachmann version rather than a Hornby - I wonder why?. The finish on the Bullied can vary a little between examples but is certainly not the worst so far. That 'honour' is held by the Deltic - which suffered several production problems resulting in the terrible standard of finish on the models that reached the shops. Regards Point out what the differences are, to all intents and purposes these are the models that get released. I understand about the concept of a pre production or mock up but do you think they will go to the trouble of making a pre production version? Given the quality of the finish of a number of releases, they are obviousely failing to grasp the concept of a pre production mock up. I have five Deltics and only one is bad, the others are average. Some of your comments imply that you have some connection with GBL, such as refering to production problems and that some of these models may dissapoint. Care to elaborate? cheers Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 UTA engines never had smokebox numberplates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Finally got around to having a play with my Issue 7 Deltic This was my 1st ever repaint /re number job and involved a repaint and renumber job with detail added to the ends including adding extra handrails, what I was after was 55009 Alycidon in its last year of operation when transferred to York depot and didn't have its white window surrounds. Renumber , TOPS panel, headcode dots and York badge come from Fox Transfers Nameplate from A1 Models detailing comes from Craftsman Models Paint used was Halfords rattle cans with Vauxhall Mustard Yellow for the ends and Peugeot Royal Blue for the body, the blue looks lighter than some of my other Railblue locos but the effect I was after was a buffed up ex-repaint loco not a work stained oily dirty Deltic and I am pleased with how it came out. The other blue I looked at was Ford Fjord Blue as per a list on the forum but this looked even lighter. The GBL Deltic was an Ideal item to work on been low cost and a good confidence booster to have a go at other things. Here are the results Rmweb015.JPG Rmweb012.JPG Rmweb017.JPG Rmweb023.JPG As I say this gave me the confidence to have a go at converting my Hornby Railfreight Sound 08 into a Railblue class 09 including high level pipes hope you dont mind a photo of that too.. Rmweb004.JPG Cheers Steve Good to see someone else taking the plunge. I had not had the courage to use my airbrush until I had a go with the 9F and I have been using it on just about every model since. Last week I respayed and weathered my first proper loco a model rail sentinal. It turned out really well not sure I would have had the courage to do it if I had not been able to practice on these locos. I've always been more interested in diesels and electrics and would not normally have bought models of most of these locos but at this price I can't resist. They have given me a better appreciation and knowledge of steam locos. I don't call them kettles as often as I did. Nice work on your Deltic and class 08 please show more photos of what you do with the rest of the locos in the series. Keep up the good work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 ....Although I will not confirm or deny anything .... All very cloak-and-dagger. Conspiracy theorists will probably think the CIA is involved.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Perfectionists look away now actually go hide behind the settee. Ok now they are hiding I decided to paint one of my battle of Britain locos in BR green but that requires the removal of the southern ring thing on the smokebox door. It is a pain in the backside to remove as you can't get at it properly with a knife or a file. The roof is in the way the smoke deflectors are in the way the buffer beam is in the way arrrggghhh! Anyway having done my best to carve it away neatly I realised it was not going to look very good. Time for plan B, I cut away as much of the smokebox door as I could, I then took the smokebox door from the Dapol kit and cut away the surrounding plastic and glued it in place. It's a bit crude but it will do. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Albert Goodall has a Bulleid smokebox door for a couple of quid http://www.rtmodels.co.uk http://www.rtmodels.co.uk/csc_5456.jpg Needs darts, but their cheap, and you'd still be in less than a Dapol BofB. It's got a number plate on it, but as it's white metal that should file off easily for those that are sticking to Southern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Now you tell me The rear pony truck on his page looks good few other bits could come in useful thanks for the heads up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Looking at the pictures of the valve gear, shouldn't the slide bar above (and I've always believed, connecting to) the crosshead be in line vertically with the crosshead? Or am I reading it all wrong? As in this picture: http://locoyard.com/2013/05/10/34051-sir-winston-churchill-at-ropley-loco-yard/2013-watercress-line-ropley-nrm-bulleid-pacific-34051-sir-winston-churchill-wheels-and-valve-gear/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) The cross head slides in or between the slide bar(s). It therefore follows that they must be aligned. Without checking, (never wise!) on Bulleid Pacifics the slot is directly above the piston rod with a 'T' shaped (in section) crosshead sliding between triple bars. AFAIK The Tri-ang model of the BoB relied on the alignment of the piston rods in the cylinders with dummy slide bars. My 'Wadebridge' uses the Dublo A4 motion, less the Walschaerts gear. (A certain amount of Dublo 'spirit' is involved.) Castings for the Wrenn version are still available at a price (beyond modest Griffon means....). EDIT. Not having been to Asda for a few days, I have only seen the GBL Pacific today. Two examples (with patched numbers - neither of which is straight - one about 15 degrees off horizontal). Better than I expected (apart from the wheels), but suffice to say that they are still there. Edited July 11, 2014 by Il Grifone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 That's my point - on WM's pictures the slide bars don't seem to be aligned with the crossheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Smokebox door looks not too bad once it's been painted. Just need to wait for all the paint to dry then I can get on with the transfers 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I>SNIPPED Really nice to see Sarah's other Jinty pictures. I'll try and dig out my old Tri-ang/Hornby one I did when I was about 11 or 12. Didn't really know what I was doing at the time but I weathered it using the slop at the bottom of a jar I used to clean the paint brushes out with. Some of you will know the reference to "dung brown" when it came to certain plastic colours used for Tri-ang wagons, well, I didn't quite use the word "dung" but was on the same lines. That Railway Children Jinty was a bit dumb I thought, especially when the Pannier Tank was launched in 1971, they could have done one as it would have been a better representation than what they did. Was it a case of using the wrong body? Getting back on track (almost) >SNIPPED I agree about the GNSR Jinty. The thing is, the Tri-ang Hornby "Railway Children" Set came out in 1970, and was listed into the Hornby Railways period until 1972. The R.51S GWR 57XX Pannier Tank Loco (with Smoke) was not available until late 1971 and 1972. Therefore, the "correct" Pannier Tank wasn't available for the set. How about a R.251 "Deeley" 3f 0-6-0 Tender Loco in Green as "The Green Dragon" from the Railway Children story? The famous Film on the NYMR used the L&Y "Barton" 0-6-0 Tender Loco I think? There could have been a whole series of models.... (I may indeed do a couple of re-paints of a 57XX and a "Deeley" 3f...... ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Would weatherman be able to use his contacts to put forward suggestions for future models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 The Railway Children was filmed at the Keighley & Worth Valley Railway rather than the NYMR. I would also like to point out that Hornby produced the 8750 series of pannier with the later cab rather than the earlier cab 57XX variety. 5775 the engine used in the film was purchased from London Transport and Hornby's bright red LT version was also incorrect in this regard. I always wanted one when I was a child though but had to put up with the slightly more correct GWR green one. Sorry for being a pedant, Jason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Right. I gave up on my subscription delivery and went to Smith's... Bought the last one there (the Black 5s and K3s lasted longer, so perhaps a 'local' loco sells better?) And it's a cracker. It's all there, crisply and accurately tampo'd, good, clean paintwork. It's like winning a raffle! This one may stay as it is, with a bit of detail painting especially on the wheels and chassis, closer coupling to the tender and a fallplate and crew added. Incidentally, has anyone noticed that the left-side connecting rod is moulded upside down? They must have bought a Gostude special to copy from. The next one (if it ever arrives) will become a West Country. I'm planning to calm the rivet detail down a lot, add ejector pipes and new buffers (RT Models) and possibly a new front end from Albert Goodall. That'll mean a renumber and repaint for the loco, but if I can get a decent colour match I'll leave the tender as is (did tenders always match locos closely in colour?). This loco is destined for a shelf... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) >SNIPPED The idea of the old Triang Deeley 3F being produced in 'Railway Children' livery nowadays as a new production is I'm afraid a non starter even if Hornby was willing to run such an old tool. The tooling for the locomotive has been altered substantially to produce the 'James' in the Thomas and Friends range. If anyone looks at a 'James' they will see that there is a very clear ring around the smoke box where an extension has been added in the tooling. In a way its rather nice to know that an old Triang late 1950's model is still in production, albeit somewhat altered. Just to keep historical records straight the loco referred to as used in the film ( I cant remember off the top of my head what exactly was used - but from memory I'd agree with the suggestion made) would have been a Lancashire and Yorkshire railway Barton Wright 0-6-0 - the designers name being William Barton-Wright - he was CME of the L & Y from 1876 to 1886. Regards Ahhh. but I didn't say that "Hornby" should make the "Green Dragon" now. It was more a "might have been Tri-ang Hornby Model... Yes, Barton Wright. Yes, KWVR not NYMR, bad memory syndrome...Yes, wrong cab shape pannier tank. There was a "London Transport" liveried Pannier Tank in a really quite good (if you ignore certain things) early episode of "Last Of The Summer Wine" (Compo starts it running, and then climbs off....!). This is pulling the LNER Saloon (Old Gentlemens coach, represented by Tri-ang Hornby with a "teak" Old Wild West Style coach from theTC Series. Well, it had a clerestory roof!). This loco had letters stuck over the "London Transport". (KWVR?) This should be the same Pannier Tank? The "Thomas range, in addition to the stretched "Deeley" James, also has the 1972 57XX Pannier Tank as "Duck", which originally was a Gaiety model with the earlier cab style. "Devious Diesel" (The Shunter) is based on the older 0-6-0 Diesel Shunter tooling. Another from the1950s and 1960s. "Wooly Bear" The Hymek is the old Tri-ang Hornby 1960s Hymek model. "Gordon" is the old "Flying Scotsman A3. (etc..) Some of the Wagons (E.G. 1950s Cattle Wagon) are also old tooling. The Hornby Trackside Accessory set is almost all from 1960s versions of 1950s tooling,(Mile Posts, Gradient Posts, "Whistle Boards" set of 3 lineside huts ) with the telegraph poles and loading gauge from 1962, and the water crane using a new base for the top part originally made for the "new" turntable with the "Geneva Gear" arrangement. (Turn the Water Crane to rotate the turntable...) I agree about the GNSR Jinty. The thing is, the Tri-ang Hornby "Railway Children" Set came out in 1970, and was listed into the Hornby Railways period until 1972. The R.51S GWR 57XX Pannier Tank Loco (with Smoke) was not available until late 1971 and 1972. Therefore, the "correct" Pannier Tank wasn't available for the set. How about a R.251 "Deeley" 3f 0-6-0 Tender Loco in Green as "The Green Dragon" from the Railway Children story? The famous Film on the NYMR used the L&Y "Barton" 0-6-0 Tender Loco I think? There could have been a whole series of models.... (I may indeed do a couple of re-paints of a 57XX and a "Deeley" 3f...... ) Edited July 12, 2014 by Sarahagain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Looking at the magazine that comes with the LP, the loco list now includes a King and a Castle - which to the untrained eye must look pretty much alike. Locomotion has disappeared from the list, but Rocket remains. Is this a sign of something? If it is I'm b****ered if I can fathom it. I was looking forward to Locomotion as well. Still, the GWR is always popular, we are told. At least there's the T9 and the N to come. Not that my K3 and LP have actually, y'know, arrived yet. On a side note ( ) how did the air smoothed casings get so wrinkled and rumpled in service? Air pressure? Heat? Huge giants picking them up to put them on sidings or away in boxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Looking at the magazine that comes with the LP, the loco list now includes a King and a Castle - which to the untrained eye must look pretty much alike. Locomotion has disappeared from the list, but Rocket remains. Is this a sign of something? If it is I'm b****ered if I can fathom it. I was looking forward to Locomotion as well. Still, the GWR is always popular, we are told. At least there's the T9 and the N to come. Not that my K3 and LP have actually, y'know, arrived yet. On a side note ( ) how did the air smoothed casings get so wrinkled and rumpled in service? Air pressure? Heat? Huge giants picking them up to put them on sidings or away in boxes? The only model "Locomotion" I know of was the Bachmann Pewter Model. A nightmare to mould? Tri-ang and Kitmaster/ Airfix/ Dapol did/ do the Rocket, with Tri-ang also doing a coach. (Hornby did a "big" steam powered rocket and coach..) So, a good choice of inspirations... Spam Can Plating It seems that forming flat plates into the shapes required for the "Spam Can" cladding introduced crinkles, dents, etc...The fact that some put oil all over the insulation, and some caught fire is probably incidental here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Yes. The Pannier tank used in Last Of The Summer Wine was the same Pannier used in The Railway Children. Number 5775 which was sold to London Transport and numbered L89. Somewhere I've got a postcard with Compo, Clegg and Foggy standing on the footplate. Bright red locomotives must of been a big seller in the late 1960s/early 1970s as apart from the 3F, Jinty and Pannier tanks mentioned, they also had the Dock Shunter, industrial "Nellie" type 25550, red Black Five and even the red Hall - Lord Westwood. Childhood memories of looking through old catalogues. Getting back on thread. My subscription came on the Monday after they were in the shops last month. I took one out as they seemed to fly off the shelves locally. All of them so far will come in useful in some capacity. I also believe that Bulleid pacific steel plates got damaged as the only way to access the oil bath and internal workings for repairs was to remove parts of the airsmoothed casing. That's as well as the well documented fires. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 If the series is to run to the original planned number of editions, then there are reduced cost options available by cunning choices of subject, as alternatives to those items that will not be produced. Have BR and Stanier standard tenders already tooled for example, what other popular locos with RTR models could use those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) The Tri-ang Deeley 3F wasn't bad for the time (and the price was quite reasonable - just over £2 including tender IIRC). Her main faults are the undersized wheels and strange tender design (shared with the L1 of a couple of years later and only approximate for that too). The full size models (and the larger 4Fs) clanked past our back garden at the time..... A Rocket* (presumably replacing 'Locomotion' -did someone mix them up?) is probably of little interest to us, as there is always the Kitmaster/Airfix/Dapol kit. (I'm always meaning to build another to replace the one I built when it first issued - I have a Tri-ang coach.) I seem to recall there have been a couple of diecast models too. Benbros (crude and nowadays hard to find) and Matchbox. http://essexmodelsandminiatures.co.uk/blog/matchbox-stephensons-rocket/ *I was looking forward to this one too! I'm glad to see the picture of the prototype in the link. She looks in much better condition than she was, when I was at university in South Kensington in the late sixties. EDIT Our friend Cartmel has a couple of examples of the Benbros model at the moment. They finish tomorrow, but I doubt there's any rush seeing they are typical Cartmel prices and bound to be relisted! Edited July 12, 2014 by Il Grifone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD0-6-0 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Hi, And I didn't suggest that James was the only item of old tooling still in use - I'm aware of all the other old items still filtering through and the origins of the Thomas models as we have all of them on the layout. I just thought that having been mentioned I'd post to round out the story of the Deeley for those that might have been interested. Incidentally as far as I can remember the 'Hymek' is 'Bear' - because he growls. I havnt heard him called anything else but I.m happy to know different if he was. Regards. Being 15 (and still having the full collection covered in dust somewhere on my bookshelves) this is still fresh in my memory, bear was called bear because of his growling, wooly bear was a story in which Percy was covered in treacle then hay. I still have an old Hornby hymek somewhere, it seems to be one of the only two ringfield motors that run well for me, the other being the Lima deltic. Sorry went off topic and on a bit 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 If they know that most of their sales are to modellers buying multiple copies then hopefully they will realise that rocket and locomotion will be small sellers. Most of us will only buy one copy. Other models will have more potential than them. The western has several colour schemes we can paint them in the same would go for a class 37 or 47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) Being 15 (and still having the full collection covered in dust somewhere on my bookshelves) this is still fresh in my memory, bear was called bear because of his growling, wooly bear was a story in which Percy was covered in treacle then hay. I still have an old Hornby hymek somewhere, it seems to be one of the only two ringfield motors that run well for me, the other being the Lima deltic. Sorry went off topic and on a bit Oh dear....I really need a memory upgrade! It HAS been a while since I have read the Railway Series Books,,, I WILL risk another comment though... Wasn't the Large Scale Airfix kit the Trevethic (? Spelling, Sorry!) 1804 "Pen-y-Darren" Locomotive? (In the same series as a stationary steam engine. Museum Series?) Edited July 13, 2014 by Sarahagain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Hi, Most of the sales are not to modellers though - feedback suggests that the original target audience makes up the greater number of sales although there have been definite signs of a fall. Modellers are more selective and tend to only buy what suits their modelling period or area. The appeal of any particular locomotive class to us as modellers has no bearing on what might or might not be produced - other factors (some of which I've mentioned in previous posts) control this aspect. Regards I wish I was selective ha ha. I have been buying at least 3 of each model, in some cases more, I know from your previous posts you have been buying multiple copies. While a lot of the subscriptions may be to the target audience it's impossible to know who is buying them in the shops. I've now got the transfers done on one side of the BoB waiting on the varnish drying then will get the other side done will post photos later today or tomorrow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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