Level crossing stupidity...

[ejstubbs]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

...they are tall, narrow, and quite heavy. I'd think whatever brakes they have would be rendered ineffective by them toppling over, at which point they could slide about anywhere. 

 

A rocket-powered self-ejection system must surely be the only practical solution.  Or maybe airbags?  Yes, that's it: much safer to have them bouncing around the interior of a coach inside a soft bouncy inflated sphere.

 

In reality, though, I would refer people to the answer my learned friend PatB gave earlier:

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

41 minutes ago, Talltim said:

Spewing like warm water as they go!

Well, that's no problem, then ............. there'd be plenty of warm liquids emanating from elsewhere in the circumstances !

[lather]

5 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

..... and we'll soon have driverless cars on the level crossings too - GAWD 'ELP US !

 

That poses an interesting legal question - If a driverless train hits a driverless car on an automatic crossing, who's to blame? 

[petethemole]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Somebody ought to tell him diggers could be driverless too.

I could envisage some situations where a driverless digger might be of use, but it would have to be remotely controlled rather than programmed.  Seriously hazardous events spring to mind.

[alastairq]

Dunno if it has been mentioned before,but in the US of A, some larger railroad companies ran their Geeps, etc, long nose first, [rather than short nose first] as a 'protection' to the driver in the event of a grade crossing collision.  This, some decades ago.

 

I have no information as to how effective this procedure was, when compared to 'short nose first' incidents?

 

[PatB]

16 minutes ago, lather said:

 

That poses an interesting legal question - If a driverless train hits a driverless car on an automatic crossing, who's to blame? 

The most junior and expendable engineer in each of the respective manufacturers. 

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

In any major impact, a refreshment trolley would potentially create absolute mayhem. I wouldn't want even to be responsible for trying to keep one under control in an emergency braking situation. 

 

John 

Hence why in aircraft the slightest hint of turbulence (let alone impact!) the trolleys are locked away securely in their safety positions.

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Surely that's a design issue - fit the thing with its own brakes and an accelerometer to apply them in such a situation.  Maybe even a sort of deadman's that the steward just has to let go of.

That’s not going to stop a hundred or so kilos of stainless steel and fluid/consumables going anywhere in an impact.

[PhilJ W]

8 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

..... and we'll soon have driverless cars on the level crossings too - GAWD 'ELP US !

The way some cars are driven they might as well be driverless.

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, petethemole said:

I could envisage some situations where a driverless digger might be of use, but it would have to be remotely controlled rather than programmed.  Seriously hazardous events spring to mind.

Handy for knocking off an ATM

[Artless Bodger]

3 hours ago, petethemole said:

I could envisage some situations where a driverless digger might be of use, but it would have to be remotely controlled rather than programmed.  Seriously hazardous events spring to mind.

The smaller diggers can already be used with remote control from a belly pack, especially for demolition work, I think I saw film of the roof of Battersea Power Station being demolished by a mini digger mounting a jack hammer. If it broke through and fell the driver would be in a safe place, though usually working on line of sight.

[PhilJ W]

16 minutes ago, Artless Bodger said:

The smaller diggers can already be used with remote control from a belly pack, especially for demolition work, I think I saw film of the roof of Battersea Power Station being demolished by a mini digger mounting a jack hammer. If it broke through and fell the driver would be in a safe place, though usually working on line of sight.

Indeed, there are several places in the UK where shunting locomotives are controlled in the same way.

[petethemole]

I was thinking mainly of excavators, having worked with them on archaeological sites, many of which were also live construction sites. 

[Mark Saunders]

12 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Indeed, there are several places in the UK where shunting locomotives are controlled in the same way.

The GECt locomotives at Lackenby were all remote control and had no onboard controls when sold to Ed Murray!

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, petethemole said:

I was thinking mainly of excavators, having worked with them on archaeological sites, many of which were also live construction sites. 

Remote control archaeologists ?

[Hobby]

19 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Possibly, but they are tall, narrow, and quite heavy. I'd think whatever brakes they have would be rendered ineffective by them toppling over, at which point they could slide about anywhere. 

 

The aisle isn't wide enough. The only place I've seen a trolley on it's side is in the large luggage area and even then it wasn't completely flat on it's side put propped up by the luggage rack!

 

18 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

........ spewing boiling water as they go !

 

Nope, the water is in sealed containers, even the pots.

 

19 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

In any major impact, a refreshment trolley would potentially create absolute mayhem. I wouldn't want even to be responsible for trying to keep one under control in an emergency braking situation. 

 

I have seen it, it's difficult. You wouldn't know about the first bit, it would happen too quickly, though it's more likely just to slide down the aisle, the problems come if the coach gets airborne, though passengers and luggage are likely to take off before the trolley!

 

19 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Surely that's a design issue - fit the thing with its own brakes and an accelerometer to apply them in such a situation.  Maybe even a sort of deadman's that the steward just has to let go of.

 

You have to apply the brakes when serving but if you are on the move when the emergency brakes go in... But for the odd occasion we are talking of the extra cost wouldn't be worth it... 

 

 

Like the ejector seat for the driver we are talking a very rare scenario, so whilst interesting to discuss would be ruled out of any serious discussion very early on, amusing non the less! I believe luggage has always been more of an issue than trolleys, though even then incidents have been so rare that the precautions taken on an aircraft are not deemed worthwhile on a train or a coach... Whilst the crossovers at Didcot might be rough at 70mph they pale into insignificance compared with air turbulence in a 'plane!

 

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Hobby

[Dunsignalling]

I was under the impression that the brake default position on refreshment trolleys is on, and the bar has to be depressed to release them, like a luggage trolley.

 

John

Edited June 20, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Hobby]

No, they have brakes on the wheels at the end the staff are which are applied when stopped, same design as the ones we had before which were actually airline catering trolleys bought for use on the railways. The difficulty on trains is getting the trolleys over the humps between the coaches, to get over many (most?) you need to apply a slight lift of the trolley as you approach it to make it easier which would not work if you had to press down to release the brakes, you could have the bar working the other way I suppose but no doubt they thought through these options when designing the latest ones and discounted it?

Edited June 20, 2021 by Hobby

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

.... You have to apply the brakes when serving but if you are on the move when the emergency brakes go in... ....... 

Wot - no Dead Man's Handle ??!? 

[Wickham Green too]

OK ........... let's get back on topic : - 

 

 

..... if the train wasn't actually backing across the road for a runpast, it was certainly about to do so !  : R.P.S.I. "Mount Brandon" railtour, Farranfore, 14/5/89.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Wickham Green too
Photo reinstated

[newbryford]

As well as strapping down catering trolleys, we'll be insisting on passengers wearing seatbelts next.

 

[davknigh]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

As well as strapping down catering trolleys, we'll be insisting on passengers wearing seatbelts next.

 

On some stretches of track that might not be a bad thing…

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, newbryford said:

As well as strapping down catering trolleys, we'll be insisting on passengers wearing seatbelts next.

 

Especially if there's turbulence in the buffet car

[Bucoops]

25 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Especially if there's turbulence in the buffet car

 

Beans are still on the menu then?

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, newbryford said:

, we'll be insisting on passengers wearing seatbelts next.

 

They should've been fitted to Leyland Pacers!