A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[The Stationmaster]

I had a look at some prototype photos last night and I'm still not quite sure about the smokebox door. Is it just a tad too bulbous? What do others think?

 

In the photos it doesn't look too bad on the GWR version, I think the BR version is looking odd because of the peculiar smokebox numberplate and neither is helped by the incorrect shape of the handrails where they curve from the boiler side to go up round the front of the smokebox.  bBut the lance cock is totally ridiculous, especially so seeing how others have made a pretty good job of it and have been doing so for years past.

[colin penfold]

In the photos it doesn't look too bad on the GWR version, I think the BR version is looking odd because of the peculiar smokebox numberplate and neither is helped by the incorrect shape of the handrails where they curve from the boiler side to go up round the front of the smokebox.  bBut the lance cock is totally ridiculous, especially so seeing how others have made a pretty good job of it and have been doing so for years past.

What's a lance cock?

 

Please don't say "it's a weapon used by knights mate"

[gwrrob]

What's a lance cock?

Please don't say "it's a weapon used by knights mate"

An American pornstar.....

[Captain Kernow]

OK, my next GWR and model railway-related question is this.

 

While I was at the namesake model railway shop in Camborne yesterday, as part of my antidote to the Ally Pally show that I hadn't even realised was taking place, I bought one of these cute little Oxford Rail ex-GWR Toads, in BR livery and endorsed 'Bala', which isn't too far from the location of the highly unlikely fictitious railway that is to be the subject of my next layout:

 

 

I've had a look at the relevant thread, but all the mention of diagram numbers and other complicated stuff has gone above my head, so my question really is, are they any good?

 

Thanks ever so much.

 

[gwrrob]

OK, my next GWR and model railway-related question is this.

 

While I was at the namesake model railway shop in Camborne yesterday, as part of my antidote to the Ally Pally show that I hadn't even realised was taking place, I bought one of these cute little Oxford Rail ex-GWR Toads, in BR livery and endorsed 'Bala', which isn't too far from the location of the highly unlikely fictitious railway that is to be the subject of my next layout:

 

Oxford Rail Toad.jpg

 

I've had a look at the relevant thread, but all the mention of diagram numbers and other complicated stuff has gone above my head, so my question really is, are they any good?

 

Thanks ever so much.

 

A modeller of your calibre will remedy its faults Tim. If you want to rename it Railtec do the transfers.

[Siberian Snooper]

What's a lance cock?

Please don't say "it's a weapon used by knights mate"

The lance cock, is too supply steam to the steam lance used to clear the tubes of debris and ash, when an engine is disposed.

[The Stationmaster]

What's a lance cock?

 

Please don't say "it's a weapon used by knights mate"

 

See the picture appended below - it's the fitting just to the right of the step which is where a steam lance could be attached to the engine.  Steam lances were extremely useful bits of kit which were used on running sheds to clean out boiler tubes but also had the excellent ability, with slight drawbacks, to blast snow and ice out of points at times of inclement winter weather (but always make sure you were wearing the special gauntlets which went with them).   They have been properly modelled on Bachmann, Hornby, and Kernow GWR models.

 

Incidentally on early 47XX they were on the opposite side for some unaccountable reason

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[gwrrob]

I don't think anyone does a replacement certainly not in 4mm from what I've seen.

[2ManySpams]

I don't think anyone does a replacement certainly not in 4mm from what I've seen.

Laurie Griffin does them in 7mm.

[Clearwater]

Some of the model lances seem to be in very bright brass. Would, in reality, they have ended up pretty dirty? Looks that way in Mike’s photo above.

[The Stationmaster]

Some of the model lances seem to be in very bright brass. Would, in reality, they have ended up pretty dirty? Looks that way in Mike’s photo above.

 

Definitely got grimy fairly quickly - and my pic shows one on a preservation line on a very clean engine.

[Denbridge]

Definitely got grimy fairly quickly - and my pic shows one on a preservation line on a very clean engine.

it isnt just grime. The smokebox heat will soon dull the bronze casting the cock is made from.

[7007GreatWestern]

I don't think anyone does a replacement certainly not in 4mm from what I've seen.

 

Alan Gibson part 4M764 (GWR Steam lance valve x 2).

 

Another error on the Heljan 47xx is the position of the step immediately under the smokebox door - it's in the wrong place. I know replacements can be found on the Brassmasters 'Modified Hall' detailing etch. Does anybody know where else they can be obtained?

 

Andy.

[The Fatadder]

I don't think anyone does a replacement certainly not in 4mm from what I've seen.

Would be worth an email to Brassmassters, there must be a suitable part in the Finney kit (and they do sell a lot of details separately)

[Captain Kernow]

If you want to rename it Railtec do the transfers.

Thanks.

 

Do you think they do transfers for 'Tarquin?'

Edited March 25, 2018 by Captain Kernow

[gwrrob]

Thanks.

 

Do you think they do transfers for 'Tarquin?'

Yes, they do any name you want custom made.

[brianusa]

Alan Gibson part 4M764 (GWR Steam lance valve x 2).

 

Another error on the Heljan 47xx is the position of the step immediately under the smokebox door - it's in the wrong place. I know replacements can be found on the Brassmasters 'Modified Hall' detailing etch. Does anybody know where else they can be obtained?

 

Andy.

 

Sometimes its hard to believe you scale guys!  Years gone by, it would probably have not appeared at all!

 

Brian.

[7007GreatWestern]

 

Another error on the Heljan 47xx is the position of the step immediately under the smokebox door - it's in the wrong place. I know replacements can be found on the Brassmasters 'Modified Hall' detailing etch. Does anybody know where else they can be obtained?

 

Andy.

 

Time to eat some (partial) humble pie and some serious 'anorakism'!

 

It seems that pesky step moved during the life of the class. I've found four photographs of the class the early part of their careers with the step positioned on the inner smokebox ring. All were from 1932 or earlier. Soon after if was repositioned to the outer ring and remained so for the rest of the life of the class.

 

Early Position:-

https://www.mediastorehouse.com/47xx-class-locomotive-no-4701/print/8683603.html

 

Later Position:-

https://www.mediastorehouse.com/47xx-class-locomotive-no-4707-at-stoke-gifford/print/8683599.html

 

Heljan's version:-

 

Andy.

[Castle]

Hi Andy,

 

Don’t forget that when removed for overhaul, the smokebox (which is riveted on!) went with the boiler to the boiler shop and the next freshly overhauled unit was fitted. I suspect also that there were more than 9 boilers to cut down overhaul times. If it seems things moved about a bit it might be that different boilers and smokeboxes had them in different positions. It could also be that a modification was ordered and they were slowly changed as they were overhauled. You will need to see a range of pictures to confirm this.

 

I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[The Stationmaster]

Alan Gibson part 4M764 (GWR Steam lance valve x 2).

 

Another error on the Heljan 47xx is the position of the step immediately under the smokebox door - it's in the wrong place. I know replacements can be found on the Brassmasters 'Modified Hall' detailing etch. Does anybody know where else they can be obtained?

 

Andy.

 

The position of the step seems to vary according to period, and the mid mounted step portrayed by Heljan definitely appeared on engines up to 4706 in their early years and certainly appears on Pre-War 47XX running with 4,000 gallon tenders.  Presumably the step was lowered on the entire class at some later date but quite when on which engines can probably only be established from accurately dated photos.  At least two engines (or one boiler moving between engines?) originally had the lance cock on the 'wrong' side of the smokebox front - GW 'standardisation at work yet again!

[Clearwater]

Hopefully Heljan will have sent a version or two to Mr Leigh at Model Rail for review. I'm minded to wait on this one until I've seen one and seen some reviews

 

David

[7007GreatWestern]

Hi Andy,

I suspect also that there were more than 9 boilers to cut down overhaul times.......

 

I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

According to Maidment's book there were just one spare boiler which gave Swindon quite a headache! According to Kenneth Cook (Swindon Works Manager during the 30s and successor to Hawksworth) special techniques had to be developed to enable the 47s to run 100,000 between 'Intermediate' works visits. They were also able to get 300,000 miles out of each boiler before needing major work - hardly surprising given they only had one in reserve.

 

Andy.

[Captain Kernow]

Yes, they do any name you want custom made.

Thanks Robin, good to know.

 

But I'm still unclear as to whether the model is dimensionally etc. correct?

 

It just looks cute and that was enough for me to succumb to it's charms.

[Limpley Stoker]

Thanks Robin, good to know.

 

But I'm still unclear as to whether the model is dimensionally etc. correct?

 

It just looks cute and that was enough for me to succumb to it's charms.

That’s Mr Trump’s line.....

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks Robin, good to know.

 

But I'm still unclear as to whether the model is dimensionally etc. correct?

 

It just looks cute and that was enough for me to succumb to it's charms.

 

I'm not sure about overall dimensions Ca'n. but the 'closed' end is something of a mess as it has been copied from a preserved vehicle at Didcot which was modified after passing into departmental use.  Not impossible to modify back to looking more correct as some folk have already shown. The long footboard is the same as the one used on the six-wheeler so has a clearance in it for the third axlebox.   If you've got one with a metal sheathed/finished lower part of the body then you have a bigger job on your hands because for some unaccountable reason known only to a designer in China the verandah end is planked instead of sheet metal