Operating at exhibitions

[rodshaw]

Interesting, this stuff about operation. I can operate my own small layout impeccably (and I always do, of course...) But last week a railway modeller friend called round and I told him to go have a play while I made some coffee. When I went to see what he'd got up to, he was in a right mess - wagons all over the place, points incorrectly set, derailments, even bits of scenery in disarray. And this was on a 4ft long layout with five points, operated by someone who is a stickler for correctness!

 

Ok, my layout is US-based with Kadees, while he models British OO with tension locks. But the lesson is - familiarity. However well you know your own layout, someone else's may as well be from a different planet unless they've had time to get used to it. They won't instinctively know what to do.

[Mike Arnold]

I agree with Chaz's sentiments - as a visitor at a show I get put off by the very same issues,  but....yes there is a but coming.

 

I fully support all Ian Lampkin says, not just because he is a friend but because he is out on the exhibition circuit with one or more of his layouts at least once a month.  I guess he is qualified, very qualified, to comment (or he is mad). I was operating a large layout at Ally Pally and we had a lot of operators so no excuses there. The issue for a large layout is that you need a large pool of members to build it, shift it, mend it and operate it.  In our case the weekend started weeks ago with all the key elements of the layout being assembled at the hall where we meet monthly ready for uplift by two tail lift vans on Friday, delivered at 1.00pm to AP and by 6.00pm we were quite ready apart from a full load of stock. We left the hall at 8 after a 3.5 hour break down and load before the short trek up the A12 to unload and put away.  Pity the poor souls from Cornwall!  I am not looking for sympathy, just an understanding of how much is involved in bringing a layout to a show.

 

We have members of all capabilities and no matter how hard you might want to instil the same level of competence it is never going to happen.  It is a hobby - it's meant to be fun.  It has to be a compromise. Poor runing stock is removed; you get electronics failures - we lost two handsets over the weekend due to internal failures thus temporary run away trains; point blades sheer; someone moves a switch for their move and forgets to return to "main".  Mistakes happen - one train got rear ended because the driver did not check the view around the corner. Members are human and put a lot of effort in no matter what their abilities are. On a personal level I know I made mistakes operating but in the main it was when I was also in conversation with enquiring members of the public. I applaud every man jack of our team over the weekend and apologise for being a bit short a couple of times.  It is stressful but at the end of the day it is enjoyable - when you stop enjoying it is time to stop doing it.

[Flood]

I have noticed that Aberdeen Kirkhill wasn't on Chaz's list of layouts that set a high standard for operating.

 

He probably turned up on one of the occasions that I managed to make an error over the weekend which in total was about three or four times and is certainly unacceptable to me let alone anyone else. Either that or it was the acceleration to "Warp Factor Grumpy" by one of our operators who had not run the layout for about two years. As has been said before in this thread, none of these instances are excuses but they could easily have been sorted before the event.

[t-b-g]

It may be possible to build a layout that runs perfectly but I haven't managed it yet!

 

Taking a layout from a nice warm house and bouncing it around for 3 hours in a car/van, then setting it up in a freezing venue (as Ally Pally was on Friday evening) is always a possible cause of problems. Then you let thousands of people breathe vapour and kick up dust and muck from the floor, which settles on the layout and of course the hall warms up.

 

All of a sudden, a layout and locos that behave faultlessly at home start playing up.

 

It is worse on a shunting type layout where slow speeds and good starting and stopping are needed all through the day and to keep up the levels of concentration needed to keep the running at a high standard for hours on end isn't easy either.

 

Having made my excuses, I agree that running on many layouts at shows could easily be much better, with a little common sense.

 

It isn't difficult to put in a short pause for changing direction and for coupling and uncoupling. It isn't difficult to set up a route and check switches etc are set correctly before you turn the knob on the controller.

 

If everybody just did those, it would create a huge improvement.

 

Tony

[roundhouse]

(or he is mad).

 

 

B****r!!

 

You've found me out!!!

 

Most of the time I find it very enjoyable but there are moments where it can get stressful.

 

On Saturday the quick set up went well but at 09.30 we had a large crowd wanting to see things moving and it wasnt going well - a number of us were getting stressed thus more mistakes made (A Friday set up at Ally Pally just doesnt work for us especially as we would probably only have just got there at 8pm when they kick every one out).

 

Stock had been fully serviced in the few weeks before the show but alas a number of items just didnt want to play ball.

 

As Mike says we all do this for fun and not a living, We will have done 20 shows this year when December comes with various layouts. Some of us must be mad to do so!!

 

Ian

[Glorious NSE]

I'd totally agree - it's when you get tired or stressed (or both!) that silly mistakes (like misroutes) happen...

 

And whilst some things are simple enough in their own right, getting them to keep going right every time with some of the challenging situations we put the layouts in (see up thread) quickly stops being half so simple.

 

We try and do our bit...but...

[leopardml2341]

I'd totally agree - it's when you get tired or stressed (or both!) that silly mistakes (like misroutes) happen...

 

And whilst some things are simple enough in their own right, getting them to keep going right every time with some of the challenging situations we put the layouts in (see up thread) quickly stops being half so simple.

 

We try and do our bit...but...

............people like me turn up to watch and it all goes wrong.

 

A mate with whom I was visiting the recent Glasgow show noticed that I seemed to have this 'effect' when not even viewing, but merely approaching, layouts

[Glorious NSE]

............people like me turn up to watch and it all goes wrong.

 

I blame video camera's... 

[leopardml2341]

I blame video camera's... 

Cant be me then.............

 

I don't own one.  

[PaulRhB]

.

 

If you go to Warley, do please watch Dock Green, and if you want to tot up the number of instances of poor operating that you see that will be fine. I have rather set myself up. I do believe in the maxim "Don't dish it out if you can't take it". However I will do my best to ensure that you won't see too many.

 

Chaz

I agree with your points completely but gentle praise for the good bits too is better than anyone just criticising and more likely to get the operator to think about it rather than raising their hackles. Many times it's lack of thought that leads to it and raising the issue in a constructive way may actually help them look into other aspects too.

If it wasn't for the fact that stopping on the reverser is so frowned upon on the 7 1/4inch steamers I've driven I'd probably never have realised what they were doing on the Harz locos. As with every aspect of our models research is the key but time to do it and the bits that slip by us all factor in to the display we present.

This potentially firey subject has been discussed in a very civil manner, thank you all

[newbryford]

 

 

If you go to Warley, do please watch Dock Green, and if you want to tot up the number of instances of poor operating that you see that will be fine. I have rather set myself up. I do believe in the maxim "Don't dish it out if you can't take it". However I will do my best to ensure that you won't see too many.

 

Chaz

 

Can't say fairer than that! I wish you well with it's first real outing.

 

In the meantime, I've got to prepare stock for Easter weekend for a 48' long end to end DCC sound layout, pack the layout, load the van, drive the van, set the layout up, organise 10/11 people for 4 days/3 nights to operate (mostly experienced operators, with a couple of inexperienced guys, but the inexperienced won't be that for too long). Fix any gremlins, sometimes get the brews in and maybe, just maybe, I might have a play myself and hopefully not do anything wrong. And then do it all in reverse to get home.

 

But most of all, have fun.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[250BOB]

I think you exhibition operators do great job generally speaking. And I do forgive the occasional breakdown, derailment etc.,

 

BUT.....as Flood mentioned above, it's the warp factor acceleration and stopping that makes things look ridiculous. That's when I walk away.

[beast66606]

We have full route setting - and interlocking - on Widnes but, as Paul says, there are the odd times when the points don't change despite being called by the route, and a derailment ensues, not very often but it happens.

We don't run to any timetable, our MILF decides what we run, and it can - and does - select consecutive trains that can block both ends of the fiddle yard, a Mexican stand-off and this causes a slow down whilst we resolve it.

There are always the odd derailment caused by the "stuff" as mentioned by t-b-g, moving the layout for long distances in vans and then setting it up on uneven floors and allowing people to kick up dust can cause that.

(I wouldn't class these type of derailments as operating errors though)

 

but

 

We often regulate our trains, holding a coal on the branch whilst the Voyagers whistle by, giving an entertaining spectacle to the kids, but for a short while nothing moves - there, I've said it, nothing moves, it's not the end of the world - watch the signals, talk to the signalman about them, about the layout, about the stock, about DCC, about Man Utd - anything, we don't bite (despite rumours to the contrary elsewhere) and will answer anything and everything if we can. 

 

Our fiddle yard is very complicated and some trains cross each others path, so if the Voyager is running on greens at the front, then nothing can take the branch until it's clear, so there will be a lull whilst this happens - this is how the prototype works - and we won't change.

 

IMHO - at times I think there is too much emphasis on running a model railway, rather than running a model of a railway.

[chaz]

I have noticed that Aberdeen Kirkhill wasn't on Chaz's list of layouts that set a high standard for operating.

 

He probably turned up on one of the occasions that I managed to make an error over the weekend which in total was about three or four times and is certainly unacceptable to me let alone anyone else. Either that or it was the acceleration to "Warp Factor Grumpy" by one of our operators who had not run the layout for about two years. As has been said before in this thread, none of these instances are excuses but they could easily have been sorted before the event.

 

An unmerited assumption, Sir. The ones I mentioned were those I could remember off the cuff - if Aberdeen Kirkhill was that beautiful ex-NBR layout with the quayside and some excellent industrial buildings then I gladly include it in the excellent tent. Incidentally I was the old bloke with the salt and pepper beard who distracted the operator by engaging him in conversation.

 

It would be quite wrong of me (and very arrogant) to reel off a list of the layouts that had what I considered poor operating, especially as I kept my counsel at the show (apart from the odd muttered aside to the friends I was with). So please don't assume that if your layout isn't on the list that it's automatically bracketed amongst the duds!

 

No my opening post was more a general appeal for some improvement where it is needed - which may or may not get heeded. I am happy that it has provoked a vigorous and well informed and, thankfully, thoroughly good natured conversation. Those with exhibition experience have contributed some most welcome, cogent observations. Thanks chaps.

 

Chaz

[Stubby47]

"IMHO - at times I think there is too much emphasis on running a model railway, rather than running a model of a railway."

 

I don't disgree with this, but a model of a railway of a sleepy BLT might not be very active...
 

[PaulRhB]

 if Aberdeen Kirkhill was that beautiful ex-NBR layout with .....

 

Nope it's the huge HST depot With 99% of the time nice realistic speeds and plenty to look at in the detail. At the end of the day it's not unknown for real shunters to get it wrong and run over a derail or through a point!

[shortliner]

I think you exhibition operators do great job generally speaking. BUT.....as Flood mentioned above, it's the warp factor acceleration and stopping that makes things look ridiculous. That's when I walk away.

 

Agreed - 100% - There are a lot of people that only seem to have controllers with 2 speeds - FLAT OUT DRAG RACING and STOP DEAD - If you don't believe me look at one or two of the videos of UK exhiubitions on Youtube. The cure might be to have stops on the knobs that prevent them being turned too far or, just possibly, the answer MIGHT be one of these  http://www.awrr.com/scaler2.html

[chaz]

"IMHO - at times I think there is too much emphasis on running a model railway, rather than running a model of a railway."

 

I don't disgree with this, but a model of a railway of a sleepy BLT might not be very active...

 

 

Or indeed a model of an American mid-west shortline depot where you often needed a calendar rather than a clock for the next train.

 

My layout Dock Green is a goods yard where, to be realistic, a train might appear in the morning, the train loco would shunt the yard, dropping wagons, picking up others, maybe doing a bit of repositioning and then leave within an hour. Maybe no other movements would happen until the following day. The way we plan to operate it is absurdly busier, with a continuous series of trains, arriving, being shunted and departing. But we won't be hurrying.

 

Chaz

[roundhouse]

I know the feeling too well.

 

Technology really helps most of the time but some times it does play up. We have a similar problem with route setting in the fiddleyard. (doesnt happen with individual turnouts on the scenic side). Luckily it doesnt cause the same sort of problems on Banbury as it does when used on the American layout.  I am installing feedback to the fiddleyard turnouts so that it requires physical movement of a microswitch to determine if the turnout actually moved but thats still being worked upon.

 

Interlocking will be a future phase when I get the signals working but until then its operators checking that they have actually set up the path the train should take .

 

Ian

We have full route setting - and interlocking - on Widnes but, as Paul says, there are the odd times when the points don't change despite being called by the route, and a derailment ensues, not very often but it happens.

[beast66606]

"IMHO - at times I think there is too much emphasis on running a model railway, rather than running a model of a railway."

 

I don't disgree with this, but a model of a railway of a sleepy BLT might not be very active...

 

 

Very true, but that doesn't mean the accelerated timetable needs to rival London Bridge in the peak. One of the reasons Widnes became a "what if?" rather than a model of Widnes No.1 was because on the prototype (and the model in it's original form) the track was single in one direction and we felt that running the intensity of service the viewers seemed to want did not justice to the real place.

 

For a BLT I would (did for I have also built one - albeit LMS) use the "accelerated clock" to speed up the gaps between the main movements,

[chaz]

Agreed - 100% - There are a lot of people that only seem to have controller with 2 speeds - FLAT OUT and STOP - the cure might be to have stops on the knobs that preven them being turned too far

 

Quite so. Another cure would be (dare I mention it) DCC. Also working sound is a help - it gives a much better idea (at least with kettles) of running speeds.

 

Chaz

[10800]

Also working sound is a help - it gives a much better idea (at least with kettles) of running speeds.

 

Prefer the Mk1 eyeball myself.

[Glorious NSE]

Quite so. Another cure would be (dare I mention it) DCC.

 

DCC can certainly repay the investment of fiddling with CVs until it runs how you want it to!

[Re6/6]

...... our MILF.........

 

[PhilH]

 

 It is a hobby - it's meant to be fun.

 

Yep, forgotten by many in the model railway fraternity.