Bath Spa - High tech modelling: Bringing 1947 into the 21st century. 3d printed scenery, cnc milled track, laser cut baseboards and computer control

[Rabs]

Plenty of Bench Marks (not trig points - my mistake!).

 

Are you talking about this area? Picture dates from about 1971, shortly before these buildings were demolished. Don't ask me for any other pictures - I didn't take any others!

Bath 2-1.jpg

Do you know which of the OS map types show Bench Marks?  The only one I have found is a 1:500 town plan from 1887, which is a bit early for me.  I'll try contacting the OS directly.

 

I think so, although I can't work out where that picture is taken from.  At a guess are you standing near the entrance to the sout station building and looking east up the ramp towards the end of the platform?  If so then thank you very much - that's precisely what I need for that area.

 

Just spotted on your plan that you are going to cross Pultney Road, here is the bridge (other pictures of the bridge are on the Bathintime site) taken just before it was demolished circa 1972. Top lock was a destination, as there were trips along the canal, I enjoyed one trip circa 1964. I was invited into the engine compartment of the Charlotte Dundas to start the engine - very thrilling for a nine year old.

Bath 6-1.jpg

 

Thank you - another useful photo.  I've filed it with the ones that I found on the Bath in time website: http://www.bathintime.co.uk/

 

 

A bit before your period, but here is an aerial view from 1920

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw001161?search=bath&ref=1

Follow the "back to search" to see other views of Bath ( plus Matlock Bath and The British Bath Company!!)

Thank you as well, I'd just come across the Britain from the air website for the first time - lots of useful photos there.  One of the best things about Bath is how little the station has changed over time, so there's plenty of use to me in those pictures.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Rabs

[Rabs]

I've spent a few minutes putting together a Sketchup model of the layout with the main buildings.  The buildings are only rough place holders at the moment but the plan of the station is pretty much correct.  The station is pretty much to scale, but the terraces are too big at the moment and I'll be tweaking the road layout in that area to make it more accurate.

 

I think that the model could work well and I particularly like the fact that in such a short stretch of the line you get a station, three bridges, a bit of smart town centre, some run down terraced houses and some leafy suburban areas.  A pity I can't quite fit the cricket ground in, but you can't have everything!

 

 

 

 

 

The one area around the station which I have had to compromise most is the western end goods area and the ramp up to it.  I've had to squeeze these to get Dorchester St and the tramway in.  Have I got away with it, or is it too cramped? Sorry, I know it's hard to say without some cues for scale, the station front and curved wall is accurate in footprint if not elevation, if that is any help.

 

 

Compare to:

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw001161 (copyright English Heritage)

 

 

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw001161 (copyright English Heritage)

 

Edited June 5, 2013 by Rabs

[Tim V]

Plenty of maps on the oldmaps sitehttp://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html

 

The picture up the ramp was taken by the Penny Bridge. The water tank is in your mock up.

 

Looks pretty good by the way, recognisably Bath.

[Rabs]

Thank you. I think that this one has legs.  Over the last couple of months I've been working on a design for laser cut plywood modules. Laser cutting allows precision woodwork with minimal carpentry skill (which I don't have and don't have the time to acquire).  My basic design is to have 800mm by 400mm modules, each with it's own box for storage and transport.   I chose that size for three reasons:

•  A 2:1 aspect ratio is helpful because it allows more combinations of modules to be bolted together (e.g. 2 lengthways side by side with one across the ends to give a U shape).

• Each one will fit in a drawer of large chest of drawers (such as the IKEA ones I have at home)

• When you turn the box on its end and put the module on top of it it makes a nice working height of ~900mm (that's the clever bit that I'm proud of )

Here are some sketches of the design:

 

And here is what the whole lot looks like for the planned Bath layout:

 

Please excuse the crazy colours, that's just so that I can tell which bit is which - they won't be painted that way in the end.  (In fact I'm thinking of painting each box as a 5 plank GW wagon)

 

I've already made one box and two of these modules with flat tops and will post some photos of this later.  These are allowing me to test the strength, board joins and other details before I hit fire on the laser for the main layout (I will need a proper track layout for that though, so it may not be anytime soon).

 

Another advantage of the laser is that I can laser mark the track plan directly onto the plywood roadbed.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Rabs

[BG John]

Do you actually need a storage box? Wouldn't a removable cover work just as well, and save material and weight? With no backscene it would be U-shaped, or with a backscene L-shaped, but either should be rigid enough to use as legs.

 

It's a nice idea though.

[Rabs]

Thanks.

I did consider those options.  The main purpose of the box is to protect the modules from damage and dust.  To do this they need to cover at least four faces of the cuboid (as you say, the back could be a back scene integrated into the module and the base  of the module could act as the floor.  The reasons I didn't go down this route are:

• I don't want to be required to have a back scene on every module.  For example, the rightmost module in my design above can't have a back scene across it's whole width because of how it joins the other modules.
• I want to protect the electrics and mechanisms on the underside of the module.  To do this I could either put a sheet on the underside of the module or make it part of the box.  It's basically the same amount of material in either case and there's not much to choose between those options.  I chose to put it on the box because that way it can be glued in place whereas on the module I would need to make it removable to allow access to the underside of the track work.  

Edited June 6, 2013 by Rabs

[Rabs]

As promised, some photos of my test modules.  Please excuse the mess in my lab!

 

Each module will have its own box. Right now I have 2 modules and only one box, hence the workmate:

 

All the parts are laser cut in 6mm ply, except for the top sheet of the module on these tests because it was added later.  In the future they will be cut at the same time and will fit perfectly - unlike my scruffy manually cut versions.

 

The modules attach with carpenter's dowels and bolts, which are tightened with allen keys from the sides:

 

When in use the boxes stand on end (and have adjustable feet for levelling) and the modules clip onto the top with spring loaded arms, which you can just see in this picture:

[JZ]

Don't forget that a lot of the centre of Bath was remodelled extensively during the weekend of 25-27 April 1943. Although the station was relatively unharmed, much of the foreground in the two above photos was lost. Large areas of Dolemeads, to the east of the station and up to the Pultney street bridge were bombed a year previously.

Edited June 8, 2013 by JZ

[JZ]

Also, there are some plans of the station in the staff messroom. A letter to Peter Rignall, the station manager there, might get you a viewing.

[Rabs]

Yes, I am aware of the 'modifications' of 1943. What I've not been able to find good information on yet (although I haven't dug that deep yet) is how quickly the rebuilding was done. I imagine that by 1947 most of the buildings in the town centre would have been replaced and that the 1951 OS map should be pretty representative because they would have been force to re-survey those bits in detail.  

 

Thank you for the tip on the plans, very helpful.  I'm based in East Anglia at the moment but as a freelance engineer I get around the country and I imagine that I'll be going that way before too long.  When I do I'll add it to the list of things I want to look up in the area and get in touch with Mr. Rignall .

 

I am considering expanding my scope a little because I've recently fallen for the Edwardian livery and outside frames of the 1900-1906 period, and I would love to build City, RIver and Bulldog classes in N.  The more that I get into this the more that I'm glad that I chose Bath because the station barely changed over time until the inner sidings were removed (after my scope), so with a some modeller's licence I feel that I can get away with both of these periods (apologies to those who disagree).  Because of this, I may split the difference and model the town buildings pre-war.  My intention is to capture the feel of of the GWR mainline, rather than be too picky on the details.  My hope is to do high quality modelling (good detail and ambiance) and have a wide variety of rolling stock.  To achieve this I am prepared to compromise a little, but not too much, on absolute accuracy.  I want everything on the layout to be a model of something real, but I am prepared to accept that they may not have all been real at precisely the same date.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Rabs

[RailWest]

To go back to an early question which seems to have been overlooked, the Bay on the Up side at the London end was used for departing Up trains only, so the relocation of the crossover is unlikely to impact any prototype-like operation. I don't know though what local services started from there.

 

As has been mentioned, after the goods sidings were removed and the platforms extended the ex-sidings areas were remodelled quite a bit. Far more extensive remodelling (some would say vandalism) has taken place within the last 2 years on the up side site, where the whole elevated area and approach ramp etc has been removed completely and converted into an attempt at a ground-level 'piazza' (don't ask, Bath 'planning' is a nightmare mystery understood only by few and cursed by many !).

[Rabs]

Good news on the bay platform - thank you for following up on that.  I spent a bit more time trying to get the correct formation to work on my curve, but it just wasn't going to happen without looking very odd.

 

Also useful information on the sidings areas. I think that we've now confirmed that these changes all happened after my chosen period but it it's good to know what will and won't be there for direct reference when I visit.  I have been looking on Google StreetView and see the building site that you are referring to, immediately to the west of the north station building.

[HillsideDepot]

This photo dates from after the sidings went, but does give the impression of what the layout will look like, as its taken from "normal viewing distance" to quote the model reviewers favourite phrase http://bristol-rail.co.uk/w/images/f/f9/Dolemeads_Viaduct4.jpg .

[Rabs]

Yep, that's the one of the ones that inspired me to start on this project.  That link is a higher resolution image than I had found though - thanks.

[Adamphillip]

good use of the laser cutter

[bmthtrains - David]

Excellent concept and I love the 3D pre-visualisations, really lets you examine the layout before you begin and plan it thoroughly.

 

Also equally jealous of your lab!

 

David

[clecklewyke]

This looks like a tremendous project (just a shame that it's the wrong railway company ) and I am very impressed by your planning skills.

 

My only comment is that it looks a little rectilinear. I appreciate the need for rectangular baseboards if it is to be movable but I think it would look so much better if the margins of the layout followed the curved flow of the trackwork. This would be particularly desirable in the bottom left hand corner where a large structure is cut in half. This might be achieved by having filler segment (or should that be sector, I can never remember) modules to fit into the inside corners. By the way, is it designed to be viewed from the inside or the outside? (The latter, of course if it is to be exhibitable.)

 

I'm looking forward to watching this develop. It looks like an excellent exploitation of 2mm scale's ability to set the railway within its landscape context.

 

Ian

[JZ]

Pretty sure the bay was used for stoppers to/from Westbury.

[jon_1066]

... I imagine that by 1947 most of the buildings in the town centre would have been replaced ...

 

 

My understanding of post war reconstruction was that it was slow paced and was unlikely to have been completed by 1947.  Hence all the NCP car parks on old bomb sites.  Many old bomb sites lasted well into the 70's (though I doubt prime land in the centre of bath would have been left that long)

[Rabs]

This looks like a tremendous project (just a shame that it's the wrong railway company ) and I am very impressed by your planning skills.

 

My only comment is that it looks a little rectilinear. I appreciate the need for rectangular baseboards if it is to be movable but I think it would look so much better if the margins of the layout followed the curved flow of the trackwork. This would be particularly desirable in the bottom left hand corner where a large structure is cut in half. This might be achieved by having filler segment (or should that be sector, I can never remember) modules to fit into the inside corners. By the way, is it designed to be viewed from the inside or the outside? (The latter, of course if it is to be exhibitable.)

 

I'm looking forward to watching this develop. It looks like an excellent exploitation of 2mm scale's ability to set the railway within its landscape context.

 

Ian

 

Hi Ian,  Thanks for the feedback - a very good point.  I've been considering this a little to try to soften the edges a bit.  As you say, the boards must be square, but I would like the backscene to be curved (a 'U' shape around the inner edges), so I'm going to have to do something in the corners.  Quite what I'm not sure yet.  Either the back scene will need to come onto the boards, which I'm not keen to do as I have little enough space as it is, or I will need to make some small quarter circle fillets to go into the corners (as you suggested).  The layout will be viewed from the outside, the hole in the centre is only 400mm wide so unless you are significantly thinner than me it would be a squeeze!  In the long run I may build another, purely scenic module to go in the middle.

 

I'm not sure where you mean by the bottom left corner.  I've highlighted the two places that I think you might have been referring to:

 

 

At the purple ring, you are right, this is cut and I will try to blend it into the backscene.  I've not drawn this section in detail yet, so I'm not certain what the building layout will be.  At the blue ring the building is not cut, the building is just a funny shape because I've warped the plan to go around the corner.  I'll sort this out to make it look more sensible in my detailed plan.

[Captain Kernow]

Pretty sure the bay was used for stoppers to/from Westbury.

Quite possibly, someone on here will know for sure.

 

I definitely recall seeing a green DMU in there in the early 1960s (when a mere infant), also aware that local services to Chippenham/Swindon started from there.

[wagonman]

I seem to remember, back when I was a teenager, catching a train to Trowbridge (change for Devizes) that started from the up bay in c1960. I also remember nearly jumping out of my skin when the S/Vs on the small prairie at he head of the train lifted just as I was watching a down main line train draw in. Probably why it's stuck....

 

If Rabs does decide to move his time frame to pre-war days (very sensible move) he could legitimately run Corporation trams.

[Rabs]

My difficulty in moving the time-frame completely is that all my stock (~20 locos) are all in the post war G W R lettering livery, so something will have to be anachronistic.  Either the buildings will be wrong for the livery or vice versa, unless I model the bomb damaged areas as such.  The more I think about modelling the damaged Dolemeads area  that the more that I like the idea.  It's not a feature I've seen on many other layouts before and, with suitable clearance and reconstruction work going on, it could lend an atmosphere of rebuilding and hope for the future and be a nice contrast to the nostalgia of the final days of the GWR.

As the main area where I would need to accomodate bomb damage is in the terraced houses of Dolemeads I could even consider a replaceable scenic section.  Plenty of food for thought...

 

I've been playing around in templot to see what hand laid track can offer me over Peco for this layout:

 

Code 40, hand laid / fiNescale track.  See here: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=3280.0 and http://www.britishfinescale.com/ if this is new to you - a very exciting new option for those of who want 'better than N' but have too much stock to consider 2FS [usual disclaimer, no connection other than as a enthusiastic customer].

 

 

Peco code 55:

 

 

I'm strongly leaning towards the code 40 track plan because it allows me to get a much nicer, flowing track plan which is pretty accurate to scale.  The western end of the station is almost perfectly to scale, and the eastern end is also pretty good albeit on a curve.  The Peco plan doesn't allow me to get the tracks parallel and looks a bit of a mess with several slight s-curves to get things to fit together.  Also, having control over the radius of the curved points at the eastern end has allowed me to up the minimum radius from 375mm to 435mm (~15in to 17in), which is well worth having and might allow me to use DG couplings.  This is still tighter than I would like for close coupling but is pretty much dictated by the dimensions of my boards so I think that I will have to live with it.

 

Also, because I can make a tandem 3-way point for the bay platform I can get it back into the prototypical formation with the bay joining the main before the trailing point of the crossover.

 

Here are some views at either end of the station with the templot track plan roughly overlaid:

 

Anyone have any comments?

Edited June 15, 2013 by Rabs

[Gordon A]

Hand built track will give you more realistic trackwork, especially enabling you to design (Templot) and build  flowing point work which will look the business and give you smoother running.

This is the best approach to planning that I have seen, the skills for which I am quite envious.

 

I look forward to seeing track on base boards.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[Gruffalo]

My vote is for the hand-built Code 40. Your ability with the CAD package suggests that you will achieve a quality model when it is constructed so go for it!