Colin parks Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) It seemed about time to start a new topic specific to the model that is to be built this autumn.The idea of making a 4 SUB doesn't really stem from units of that type having been seen on the Seaford Branch, which is the usual motivation. The 4 SUBs just looked like machines fit for purpose, built at a time of great need for new stock to replace the ageing fleet of suburban units. Not that all 4 SUBs were completely new of course, many had reclaimed chassis.The model was going to be that of unit 4377, which had an experimental open saloon coach and also a 'pseudo-composite' coach in which the first class compartments were used as third (later second) class. However, I'd like to make a model of a 4 SUB (with a trailer composite coach)finished in late BR green and still running in that livery in the early 1970's if possible. To that end, the only unit that has come up so is 4630, which doesn't have therequisite trailer coach. It might be a case of ignoring the re-painting date and forging ahead (at 'Full-Slow' as usual!)with building 4377.As with the 4 COR, the chassis shall be built first. Most parts needed are already 'in stock'. The only major item needed is a Hornby 2 BIL motor bogie moulding. The Black Beetle motor bogie that will drive the 4 SUB has come from the Ian Kirk 2 BIL which was given to Oldlugger a couple of weeks ago.I was very pleased to receive some 0.4mm plastic rod from Buffers Model Shop today. This rod is a material of which I had run out and is most useful for roof conduits, being far less prone to distortion due to heat expansion than brass wire on plastic roofs. (Indeed, some rod is going to be used to replace brass conduit on the newly completed 2 BIL.)So that's it for now, just a box of bits and some plastic sheet.As always, suggestions welcome!Colin Edited February 7, 2015 by Colin parks 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) Hi Colin. Let me be the first to say I'm looking forward to plenty more of your plasticard construction. It's rght up my street as you know. Cheers. Sean. Edited August 30, 2013 by the penguin of doom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted August 30, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 30, 2013 Hi Colin Another trip down memory lane in plasticard and MEK fumes. Cheers SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Colin Really looking forward to another of your builds. I have to agree with the Mighty Penguin and no doubt it will be to the exacting standards that you set yourself. Duncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 You don't sit still for long do you Colin! Well as usual I'm sure this will be an interesting and informative journey and so I've got my ticket right through to the end of the line Good luck! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1023 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Colin - You may already know this but according to the David Brown Southern Electric Vol 2 book the motor coaches of 4377 spent a year running in 4LAV 2932 in 1967 before 4377 re-formed (caption p.97). Sorry for repeating it of you already knew. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Thanks to all who have kindly responded to what amounts to a few words and not much else at present! One opportunity the modelling of a 4 SUB will give is to improve on the construction methods that were used on the Tin HAL of last year. In particular, the area around the tops of the doors needs to be better represented, with those tiny ridges over the doors added as part of the surface texture. The roofs for the 4 SUB are formed and shaped, having been made while the 4 COR roofs were being 'baked'. This time, due to the large number of windows, I am minded to add a (possibly removable) false ceiling at cantrail level, (or just above) to avoid any bowing inwards of the sides. The successful detailing of the solebar rivets, first tried on the 4 COR, will be used again on the SUB. The glazing will be of the same format as the Tin HAL, although ideally this time it will clip in a small channel at the bottom edge to avoid the use of any glue. (Although now I know that superglue 'fogging' can be removed with toothpaste, the 'glue' option isn't the hit & miss job it was in the past.) A query I have, (there are always queries with these builds!) is regarding the trusses on the trailer coaches of the 4 SUBs. It would appear that the trusses are slightly shallower and the vertical supports wider apart, judging from photographic evidence. The Mike King drawings make no distinction between motor coach and trailer chassis in this respect. I am left wondering if the shape of the trussing depended on whether the chassis under 4 SUB trailer was reclaimed or new. Much research to be done yet. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Colin - You may already know this but according to the David Brown Southern Electric Vol 2 book the motor coaches of 4377 spent a year running in 4LAV 2932 in 1967 before 4377 re-formed (caption p.97). Sorry for repeating it of you already knew. Steve Thanks Steve, I have read that. Also, for the real SUB aficionado, 4377 had vents above the driver's windows on the cab fronts. These were plated over in 1966 and this can be made out in the photo on p.65 of 'The 4 SUB Story' by David Brown and Bryan Rayner. The only question left unanswered is: Did BR re-paint 4377 when it was reunited with its trailer coaches later on in 1967, or did the unit soldier on in green until the early 70's? I would like to think the latter were true! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibateg Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Looking forward to seeing this Colin, it's not in my scale or interest! But I am enjoying the workmanship. I remember spotting these at Waterloo x years ago! Regards Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 At this rate Colin you will have a highly accurate EMU fleet covering all of the main Southern EMU classes. What do you do in your spare time? Looking forward to seeing the 4SUB project develop. Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 4377's motor coaches also ended up as 1979 SR de-icing unit 012 and subsequently as a sandite unit lasting until 2002 - so it is sort of a celebrity for that too................ 4630's just a 4-SUB....................? ISTR the SUB's could only work into the country areas such as Newhaven with the heater fuses removed due to the higher nominal 750v traction voltage as opposed to the 660v in the suburban areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 31, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2013 Hi Colin I am not looking forward to yet another lesson in "how to make plastic card do the impossible"........after last nights work I cannot even cut straight any more. Seriously I am looking forward to seeing how you achieve making this non-descript, hum drum, daily commuter carrying cart into something for those of us who dabble in the dark art of scratchbuilding in plastic will want to aspire to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 At this rate Colin you will have a highly accurate EMU fleet covering all of the main Southern EMU classes. What do you do in your spare time? Looking forward to seeing the 4SUB project develop. Nigel Hi Nigel thanks for your comments. The fleet is beginning to get a little eclectic, but there is still a plan of sorts to produce enough units for a new layout at some stage. As to your question: In my spare time, I work! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 4377's motor coaches also ended up as 1979 SR de-icing unit 012 and subsequently as a sandite unit lasting until 2002 - so it is sort of a celebrity for that too................ 4630's just a 4-SUB....................? ISTR the SUB's could only work into the country areas such as Newhaven with the heater fuses removed due to the higher nominal 750v traction voltage as opposed to the 660v in the suburban areas. Hi Southernman46, I note the fact that the voltage in my chosen (albeit spurious) station would have been higher than 4 SUBs could normally handle. However, in recent years EMUs have been run before entering service after overhauls by testing them between the Lover's Walk depot at Brighton and Newhaven Marine. I have no idea when this practice began, but as all the stations in the area were rationalised, Newhaven Marine ended up (and still is, according to a manger of 'Southern' quoted in the Brighton Evening Argus a few years back) a convenient location to run trains test or stable failed ones temporarily. It's a thin excuse for running a 4 SUB I know! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) As a postscript to the livery of 4377, I have re-read a PM from Natalie, who has kindly researched the matter for me. It looks as though 4377 ran in green/syp when reunited with its trailers from 2-68 until 6-5-68, when it received full yellow ends. In that livery, it ran until 25-6-70, when it was repainted in blue. So it does seem just about possible to justify a green 4 SUB running next to a blue 2 BIL - ker-ching! On the other hand, unit 4630 quietly went about its business in green/syp at least until 4-70! http://www.flickr.com/photos/22281745@N05/6390121701/in/photolist-aJF3y6-dQ42h5-fhpHJ2-9gWo4F-dTurMS-9apVs5-9eTG9e-9dw4E4-9arK23-aomDiL-bUGojC-aiC8fV-efcTeS-92UwLu-9dAzMa-92aDSn-8JAWzS-9nWuyB-9eXy7J-cjanes-eoaXib-fhpHKZ-9tNAGE I hadn't really appreciated that 4377's motor coaches lasted right up until 2002 as a Sandite unit, as Southernman46 pointed out. Here is a link showing the '4377' Sandite unit. The cab fronts were extensively rebuilt to match the EPB stock. http://www.flickr.com/photos/66403187@N06/8643241468/in/photolist-eaLSyC-dxjGAY Colin Edited August 31, 2013 by Colin parks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 ISTR the SUB's could only work into the country areas such as Newhaven with the heater fuses removed due to the higher nominal 750v traction voltage as opposed to the 660v in the suburban areas. Yeh, but who would model the South Coast in Winter? And they all had the heater fuses out in Summer Looking forward to this one Colin! Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Yeh, but who would model the South Coast in Winter? And they all had the heater fuses out in Summer Looking forward to this one Colin! Cheers, That's true Howard, To model the South Coast in winter I would have to remove all the flowers and leaves from my scenery too! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted August 31, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2013 Yup, the lack of heater fuses in Summer made an 8-SUB an obvious choice for a relief train if one of the seaside specials was overloading. STNs (Special Traffic Notices) required key stations to liaise with Control on numbers of passengers on the station, so if there was a surplus, a standby train and crew were waiting in Selhurst depot. East Croydon was the main location, and the Inspector on the Down Side would give us a call one way or the other. If not required, then we had a spare crew for something else, e.g. M&EE trips as required, although these should have been crewed on a Q-path basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Yup, the lack of heater fuses in Summer made an 8-SUB an obvious choice for a relief train if one of the seaside specials was overloading. STNs (Special Traffic Notices) required key stations to liaise with Control on numbers of passengers on the station, so if there was a surplus, a standby train and crew were waiting in Selhurst depot. East Croydon was the main location, and the Inspector on the Down Side would give us a call one way or the other. If not required, then we had a spare crew for something else, e.g. M&EE trips as required, although these should have been crewed on a Q-path basis.Hi Ian, Thanks for your first-hand information. How did the 4 SUB lighting circuits cope with 750v - or were they also disabled? It would appear that 4 SUBs ran to Eastleigh for servicing - also with their heater fuses removed, following the Bournemouth electrification. I have read somewhere that an 8 SUB made it on a service to Newhaven Harbour (Marine?) once. Mmm. 8 SUB ? Now that's a lot of windows to cut out! All the best, Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 31, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) Hi Ian, Thanks for your first-hand information. How did the 4 SUB lighting circuits cope with 750v - or were they also disabled? It would appear that 4 SUBs ran to Eastleigh for servicing - also with their heater fuses removed, following the Bournemouth electrification. I have read somewhere that an 8 SUB made it on a service to Newhaven Harbour (Marine?) once. Mmm. 8 SUB ? Now that's a lot of windows to cut out! All the best, Colin Hi Colin and all Does anyone have a photo of 4377 and 4630 coupled together, if so that would stop Colin wondering about which unit number as he builds his 8 SUB Edited August 31, 2013 by Clive Mortimore 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) Hi Colin and all Does anyone have a photo of 4377 and 4630 coupled together, if so that would stop Colin wondering about which unit number as he builds his 8 SUB Oh very funny Clive. Q; Do you know how many windows there are in 2 x 4 SUB? A: I make it approx. 440 - depending on the units involved! Off to buy more knife blades... Colin Edited August 31, 2013 by Colin parks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) Oh very funny Clive. Q; Do you know how many windows there are in 2 x 4 SUB? A: I make it approx. 440 - depending on the units involved! Off to buy more knife blades... olin That's not to mention door handles, commode handrails and ... door hinges!! Edited September 1, 2013 by SRman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Looking forward to this, Colin. Can I temp you to do a De-Icer next. Well, after the Sub anyway. Dave 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Hi Dave, You are tempting me there! I have also seen a Sandite unit composed of two former 4 LAV (later series) motor coaches. Also tempting! Meanwhile I came across this web page last night. It has some very nice models featured on it - al which will be of interest to anyone who likes the Southern Electric! http://www.semgonline.com/model/dsmod01.html The name of the model maker seems familiar....... Colin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Blimey!! Didn't dream those pages were still there. Terrible photos. Dave Terrible models compared with yours! Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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