Layout Track Plans in Exhibition Programmes

[Coombe Barton]

So if the inclusion of trackplans in the brochure are expensive (they are) and if their absence is going to cause a problem (they do, apparently) and the fact that the show guide is not read at the show (several entries) how about putting a map of the show each with a link to the part of the organising club's website or owner's website that gives all the detail and more than could go into even the most expensively produced show guide? Do you actually need things in print?

[Butler Henderson]

Not that track plans in magazines are always accurate. Have a look in the Aug 2012 issue of Hornby Magzine at the first photo of Warmington, a T9 hauling a rake of Bulleids and a CCT and you will notice that the last Bulleid and CCT are on a length of track missing on the track plan while the single slip in the foreground is shown as two points.

[corax67]

Track plans in programmes would be nice but I completely understand that the cost element this would place upon the show organiser renders this unrealistic.

 

What I do when I exhibit though is to take along an A4 handout for anyone who wants more info with a track plan. A bit of home laser printing costs little but can mean a lot.

[North Eastern]

Having organised 'RAILEX NE' for the last 10 years, I have heard all the moans & groans from visiting members of the public, some justified some not. To say a layout plan is essential in the show guide is I think misplaced. I would say it would be nice to have them included but most of the time the exhibitor does not have one available, sometimes they are not of a good enough quality (Which begs the question do you have time to re do them?) or they do not send them to you in time.

 

All the pro's and cons have been said here, do you have space to include them, will it cost more to produce, can you get enough sponsorship or fees from adverts to cover the cost of printing or do you need to make a charge? I would like to include more but most of the time a layout plan is not supplied.

 

Most of the time our show guide is only formatted two weeks before the show due to cancellations, last minute changes etc. This in its self increases the cost of the programme, as does every extra page. This year for the first time we went all colour in a bid to make the programme more professional and improve its quality, this again increased the cost. Every improvement you make increases the cost and sponsorship is virtually impossible to get to cover the costs, also where do you draw the line with advertising before it costs you more to include it than you are getting from it.

 

Covering your costs or making a loss is a fine line with most exhibitions which is why I can understand most exhibition managers reluctance to spend too much on programmes. At RAILEX NE we believe it is integral to the overall enjoyment for the public that we produce a quality programme, but we are always conscious of cost as I type up the programme, another member then formats it in to its final form and then we email it to the printers who we have an account with. It is only through years of experience and keeping an eye on costs that we have managed to produce a programme that we produced this year. We have come from printing a single sheet of paper to a full colour A5 programme that we now produce.

 

So I would say to anyone visiting a show and are unhappy with the programme to remember the hard work that goes in to producing the programme, but most of all speak to the clubs members and ask why there is not enough layout plans etc. Most clubs will respond in a positive way, infact we actively encourage feedback positive or not.

 

I hope this has answered some questions.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[Geoff Endacott]

You can only print what you have got.

 

The Trainwest guide includes track plans when they are available in a format which can be properly reproduced.

 

Should I reject layouts whose owners don't supply a proper track plan?

 

It's not a question of money - those who claim it makes guides too expensive need to get their act together and do some proper editing. They also need a proper budget!

 

The problem is the hassle factor. It's bad enough trying to get all the other information from exhibitors without having to chase them all for proper track plans as well.

 

Geoff Endacott

[andyram]

Reading this topic has given me a few concerns. As an organisor of an amateur show my costings are limited and I certainly can't afford to include track plans for all layouts in my show guide. Having said that, it seems that people don't read the free guides anyway so do I actually bother producing one!

[Geoff Endacott]

If an exhibition doesn't make money from the show guide the organisers are getting something wrong.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Pacific231G]

While I can see the arguments on costs and some layouts not actually having a trackplan I simply don't bother with guides that don't include at least some of them. I'm not actually sure what else the guide is giving me apart from the URLs for traders' websites. I am though quite keen on track planning and maybe that's just me but they also help to identify what I've used the camera to take notes on.  It would though be putting cart before the horse to demand a track plan as a condition of exhibiting.

Magazines are a different matter though and I really hate it when a layout article doesn't include one.

[black and decker boy]

As a punter I never buy a guide.

 

As a layout owner, I provide text and track plan to each organising club. These are also available on my layout blog for anyone wanting them.

 

In general terms, each club will know what budget they set for a guide and how that is funded. External sponsorship, eg by trade adverts, can cover some / all costs but may not be available. Photocopying is relatively cheap so a basic guide, even if a couple of pages would not cost much.

 

Perhaps one answer for shows with lower guide budgets to produce a high spec PDF guide and place on their club website (wordpress blogs are free so no one can say a website is expensive) and on forum such as this. A disclaimer could be added saying only a basic black & white guide will be available on the day for free but people are then free to download and / or print a full guide on their own terms.

 

As to the suggestion, no track plan, no invite. Get Real. The hobby is about exhibiting & going to see working layouts not about drawing fancy plans for the one or two punters who are going to get precious about it. There are a lack of good quality layouts on the circuit as it is so if you start 'banning' some from such a trivial infringement then shows are going to become very much clones of each other and a turn off. Would you want a layout like Dewsbury Midland, Stoke Summit, Blackgill, Warren Lane to be removed from a show line up just because there isn't a track plan available or would you rather get to see it at your local show and maybe ask the operators if they have any info sheets (all layouts have them).

[Graham_Muz]

Well that is for you to decide, but seeing as HW&DMRC run a a "top show"  and they dont bother  with a decent guide why shoud you?

 

This is a bit of an unfair statement regarding the guide, it is generally considered a "decent guide" and something we do "bother" with, and feedback elsewhere in the actual exhibition thread backs this up,  the only question as per the OP was with respect to the inclusion of layout plans.

[cromptonnut]

Would you want a layout like Dewsbury Midland, Stoke Summit, Blackgill, Warren Lane to be removed from a show line up just because there isn't a track plan available or would you rather get to see it at your local show and maybe ask the operators if they have any info sheets (all layouts have them).

 

My bold.

 

Are you sure? 

 

Certainly from back in my exhibition manager days when I'd go round and see things I thought would be good to have, often I'd just get a name and phone number scribbled on a bit of paper and little else.  Club layouts certainly do tend to have the A4 sheet with information, track plan and contact information - but the "individual" layouts (usually those that belong to the exhibiting club's members) more often than not were missing even the most basic of write-ups even in the exhibition programme - sometimes you'd just have the name of the layout and "BR Southern Region 1950's" or similar.

 

To me it's simply a case of "being prepared to exhibit" - you wouldn't leave home without a stock box or your lighting rig, or the box of bolts that holds the layout together (ok we've all done it but that's not the point) and I see information about your layout to give out to people as part of that vital equipment.  On my last exhibited layout I used to have a cheap perspex leaflet holder (couple of quid from Staples) on some velcro that I'd stick on the end of the layout on the bit of board covering the fiddle yard so people could help themselves to a leaflet if they wanted one.  It was an A4 folded leaflet and had a lot more information on it than you'd ever expect to see in an exhibition guide, knocked together in MIcrosoft Publisher at home and printed out at work one day when the boss was out.

 

Of course, if it's a "layout under construction" as you sometimes see, that's a different story - but even then an idea of what it's going to turn in to is something...?

[jamie92208]

An interesting thread to read and many of the points made are familiar to me.  When I took over as exhibition manager at Wakefield one of the changes I made was to try and upgrade the guide by including track plans.  The plans that I got were of very variable quality and took an awful lot of time to clean up and put into a state that I thought was of any use to put in the guide.   Some were hand drawn (Often a lot of work had gone into them) but then when scanned and typeset didn't look very good though this may have been due to my graphics editing skills.   Some were very well produced and in electronic format and went straight in and enhanced the guide.  however, having introduced an element of graphics to some of the layouts I felt that I had to do the same for the rest.   I therefore started using photogrpahs wehere I didn't have a track plan.   These were usually of much higher qality and reproduced well, especially when we went to full colour.

 

After 2 or 3 years struggling to edit and reproduce the supplied trackplans I eventually abandoned them and decided to use only photos as a means of achieving some sort of consistency.  I personally like track plans and would like to use them, and if we had an in house graphics team, together with decent plans from all exhibitors then we could include them, all drawn to a consistent standard, but unfortunately much of the information is not available.

 

I can certainly echo the thoughts of North Eastern above as regards the time pressures due to last minute changes.  If you are not a Warley or York (To quote just 2) who use a professional designer then the job of producing the guide falls on one of the exhibition team, in our case me.  Guides are not easy to put together but I hope that they are of interest to our visitors.

 

Jamie

[Joseph_Pestell]

You can only print what you have got.

 

The Trainwest guide includes track plans when they are available in a format which can be properly reproduced.

 

Should I reject layouts whose owners don't supply a proper track plan?

 

It's not a question of money - those who claim it makes guides too expensive need to get their act together and do some proper editing. They also need a proper budget!

 

The problem is the hassle factor. It's bad enough trying to get all the other information from exhibitors without having to chase them all for proper track plans as well.

 

Geoff Endacott

Regardless of whether or not I  was intending to put it in an Exhibition Guide, I would always insist on a trackplan at an early stage of exhibition planning. It assists greatly in setting out the layout of the hall.

[Graham_Muz]

no need to get on your high horse with me...you could produce the model rail Encyclopedia Britanicca and Id still not read it...... like I said I check things out before i go see em

No horses were harmed in any way during my post, I was only providing a counter to a glib and unfounded statement.

 

Please lets stick to the question in the OP without some of the confrontational style that you seem to wish to impart.

[cromptonnut]

Regardless of whether or not I  was intending to put it in an Exhibition Guide, I would always insist on a trackplan at an early stage of exhibition planning. It assists greatly in setting out the layout of the hall.

Indeed, it's useful to know where fiddle yards are, for example, so you can provide bigger gaps if you have fiddle yards that would end up "end to end" on layouts, plus access would be better off at the "quieter" end of the layout.  Also it's helpful so you can make things - where possible - nearer power points etc.

[Talltim]

Regardless of whether or not I was intending to put it in an Exhibition Guide, I would always insist on a trackplan at an early stage of exhibition planning. It assists greatly in setting out the layout of the hall.

How does a track plan help with planning the hall? Layout dimension would do that surely? With some info on the location of fiddle yards etc obviously

[petethemole]

Layouts require different viewing access depending on whether they are viewed only from the front or from two or thee sides.

[chaz]

A bit too much heat in this topic for my taste. Of course there is room for differences of opinion on a forum, indeed it wouldn't be worth much without it. BUT please be careful how you express your opinions and don't take criticism personally. Railway modelling is supposed to be fun, is it not?

[black and decker boy]

how do you mean get real?. go on tell me Mr Precious 

 

I attend model railway exhibitions cos i want to...... so do most others, it be no loss whatsoever to me if there were none at all

 

no need to get on your high horse with me...you could produce the model rail Encyclopedia Britanicca and Id still not read it...... like I said I check things out before i go see em

  

I was answerin the OP - you dint like it cos its your club

  

and trust me I dont do  "Confronational" on the internet....... Im like a inverse internet warrior

 

disagree all you like - proves I'm right 

 

 

I think your own statements show that you are trying to stir it up as you have no no useful input as a punter (as you confess to not reading guides), do not appear to be an exhibitor nor an organiser so for me, your comments, slurs and general blabber are purely aimed at disrupting what is a worthwhile and civilsed thread.

 

Disagree all you like, that is your right but does not make you right.

[Mod6]

Mickey, whatever you might think you are being confrontational either in your actual comments or the way in which you present them. Reel it in please.

[The Stationmaster]

Well that is for you to decide, but seeing as HW&DMRC run a a "top show"  and they dont bother  with a decent guide why shoud you?

We bought one of these guides on Saturday at the show Mickey and I'm desperately trying to work out what isn't 'decent' about it as I sit looking at it on the desk in front of me; it's clearly laid out with particularly clear plans of the show layout (the most critical part of any show guide for me), has readable descriptions of all the layouts, and has a clear list of traders, the typeface is perfectly ok for me to read with my specs on and that's about it.

 

It doesn't have pics of the layouts, which doesn't worry me but might worry some, and getting back to the point of this thread it does not have layout plans.  But (I ask again) why do folk need layout plans?  The layouts are there, they can be seen, the way they work or are worked will tell you more about them than many a layout plan, and no doubt in most cases the owners would be more than happy to allow you to take photos if there was particularly something you wished to get your head around regarding the track layout etc.  

 

So what is the purpose of putting a layout plans in the guide?  Are they just a 'nice to have' or is there a purpose to having them?  You might possibly learn something from having them but to be honest in many (most?) cases you'd learn a heck of a lot more from actually watching the layout being operated than you ever would from just looking at a plan.

[Andy Y]

no need to get on your high horse with me...you could produce the model rail Encyclopedia Britanicca and Id still not read it...... like I said I check things out before i go see em

Steady on Mickey, Muz is explaining the club's efforts and I don't think it's fair to address it in that way.

[The White Rabbit]

A bit too much heat in this topic for my taste. Of course there is room for differences of opinion on a forum, indeed it wouldn't be worth much without it. BUT please be careful how you express your opinions and don't take criticism personally. Railway modelling is supposed to be fun, is it not?

 

It's the first rule of modelling, surely?

 

 

In a magazine article, I find a layout plan (not a track plan) a good way to understand the layout's - well - layout, especially when those little camera symbols are used to match up with the photos. Obviously there's not enough space for that in a show guide, so why include a plan? If it's just to enhance the guide, I would agree with those that say a [good] photo is of more use. If you had a complex layout, maybe a rabbit warren type, a trackplan is useful to show where all the bits go. For instance, I'd use a photo for Stoke Summit and a layout plan for Copenhagen Fields.

 

I edit two society newsletters and agree and can sympathise with a lot of the comments made by show organisers above. Producing a show guide really is a prime example of a quart into a pint pot when someone's run off with the sawdust. 

[Geoff Endacott]

There seems to be some confusion between overall plans, which show the location of scenic sections, fiddle yards, viewing sides, operational spaces, etc., and track plans which show details of the pointwork and other features on the scenic part of the layout. An overall plan is essential when setting out stands in the hall. A track plan is not.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Aside from curious interest, I am not 100% sure why a track plan is required. Does a track plan in a show guide provide anything more than our eyes can tell us? Or is it this prevalent idea of wanting 'value for money' which means that organisers have to throw the kitchen sink at a booklet that 9 times out of 10 will end up in the bin - normally via a dusty drawer or box for a couple of years!

 

We need to remember that a large percentage of those who buy a show guide will not be dedicated railway enthusiasts or modellers. Taking Wycrail as an example, there were a lot of families present, as well as those with a passing interest in model railways, who would not really care about the exclusion of the plans from the guide (which I should add was one of the better show guides I have seen recently), and if plans were present may not necessarily put them into context.

 

If you include plans, I would argue they would need to be of a consistent standard. Will it just be track, or include scenic details. Would it be a schematic, would it have to be to scale? Lots of questions...lots of hassle.

 

For me, a good show guide should certainly have an overall plan of the show itself - layouts, traders, tea/coffee, toilets etc. It should also provide a basic outline of the layout - name, scale/gauge, country, era etc. with a couple of sentences providing some details.