Layout Track Plans in Exhibition Programmes

[s182ggu]

Good Morning

 

As Andy Y has suggested, this probably demands its own thread, so here's a 'starter':

 

Kenton has made a case for exhibition organisers to include track plans in their programmes - as he puts it, 'my only gripe', when referring to the Wycrail exhibition this past weekend.

 

As part of the HWDMRS Exhibition Committee, I have spent the weekend since the show, biding my time before responding to what some of my colleagues have taken as almost personal criticism.

 

We exhibited 31 layouts at the show on Saturday and to include a track plan for each layout, if the owners could supply them, would have added, say, 1/3 of a page per layout to the programme. This equates to 10 additional pages in the programme.

 

At 50p each, the programme, without track plans, was sold at a price below cost price - a deliberate decision to keep the price to what was viewed as an acceptable price.

 

 

As one who would seem to have experience in these matters, perhaps Kenton, or anyone else, may like to advise as to how we convince our members to accept the additional cost of producing the programme and the resultant reduction in the cash surplus (profit) that we take from the day. Particularly, as with all exhibitions, this is our primary fund raising event for maintaining the viability of the society.

 

 

We are always open to constructive criticism as can be witnessed by moving our exhibition to a more spacious location a year ago, following many comments in this community and from elsewhere, and we are always open to any positive thoughts as to how we can improve our running of the show.

 

I look forward to seeing all responses.

 

 

[298]

Your program is still in the car (as is the layout), so I haven't had a look at it yet to see what I've missed. But first of all you have to consider what happens when last minute changes or substitutions occur, especially when N gauge modular layouts turn up and say "We've got an extra 6', fitting it in won't be a problem, will it?", so there are some merits in producing a guide that doesn't even have a specific floor plan in it, just numbered exhibits or even just the list of layouts names (assuming the layouts have names on).

 

I did read the specific comments regarding track plans and think that although they are good for denoting certain areas of a layout that might assist with observing the operation of it, they are usually too vague or even have bits missing to really assist with understanding the basic design criteria that the original builders considered, so much so that I've seen a layout that the owner admitted to copying a plan but not realising that the different stock used meant that the carefully thought out clearances no longer worked so well. If someone is really so interested in a specific plan then as noted on the other thread, photos, magazine/internet articles and speaking to the builders will provide more valuable information than what is produced in the guide.

[Talltim]

I don't understand the fascination with track plans*, I think layout plans have more merit

 

However, for a model you are going to see in real life when you walk around the exhibition, what's the need?

 

*except for signalling planning

[edcayton]

For me they are essential. I have kept all the programmes I have ever got with plans, and ditched the rest. The other thing which I think is needed is the overall dimensions of the layout, as this is by no means obvious in a large hall. This allows a fair guess at curve radii etc without bothering the operators who often don't know anyway!

 

I can only suggest that you look at the St Albans show guide as one of the best. It used to be £1, but has been free for a few years now. I have no idea how the economics work, but clearly it is OK for them.

 

Ed

[JohnR]

I agree, I would prefer to see layout plans (and dimensions) included in exhibition guides. 

 

The question is, what is the guide for? Is it simply a list of the layout names? Or is it to inform the viewers about the layout - which surely would include the dimensions and track plan?

 

Would you like to see track plans and dimensions removed from articles in magazines? I would say they play the same role in both publications. 

[BG John]

I was putting plans in the exhibition guides I produced around 25 years ago. It seems a backward step not to have them.

[298]

 

I can only suggest that you look at the St Albans show guide as one of the best. It used to be £1, but has been free for a few years now. I have no idea how the economics work, but clearly it is OK for them.

 

Ed

 

I always buy a guide as I think it is rude not to, very rarely read it until I get home, and then put it in a file box until it gets full and I have a clear out. But having a free guide means you have a more accurate idea of how many you will hand out, printing too many or not selling enough means making a loss on them, which can be the difference between the show being a sucess or a failure. And then there were the arguments I've heard from someone who reckoned he shouldn't pay the full entrance fee as he didn't want a free guide, and a club member at a show we were visiting who thought it unfair to sell guides at half price on a Sunday afternoon as it would be unfair to those who had previously brought one at full price, and so dozens later went to the recycling centre.

 

Another factor is producing a decent guide requires some advanced publishing skills that might be at a premium amongst club members. There are some nicely produced ones out there, but then again others seem a little too ambitious to be a sucess...

[The Stationmaster]

A layout plan is useful but apart from the points made in Graham's opening post I think that things on many layouts go far beyond what can be conveyed in a layout plan.  Basically, unless amplified by notes, it doesn't tell us how a layout can be operated, what the control arrangements might be and so on.  Sometimes these things can be very obvious by simply looking at layout - but then the track layout is equally obvious if you look at the layout!

 

So what exactly is a layout plan for in a show guide?  The overall dimensions of the layout could be useful as a guide to what could be done in that space but if you have a camera, and the layout owner's permission, it's easy enough to take some photos at an exhibition such as Wycrail where there are sometimes less busy periods (not on at Warley I agree, even if you can actually get to see the layouts through the crowds).  And once you've got the plan what does it tell you - to me it only becomes really meaningful after you've spent a bit of time observing how the track layout is used or could be used.

 

Other people no doubt have different reasons for wanting to see a plan but it would be interesting to know why they want to see one.  If you think specifically about Wycrail and the layouts there even some with the simplest track layout had considerable operational potential, and in some cases that was being fully exploited - for example Polbrock Gurney has only 4 points but can be worked in an operationally realistic manner which you soon understand by spending only a short time watching it - what, as a matter of interest,  more would a plan add to that understanding?

[cromptonnut]

When I was "exhibition manager" for our club, I got round the problem simply by getting sponsorship to cover the costs - we made no profit from providing a programme.

 

But this was a small (600 through the door) one day exhibition with about 15 layouts.

[DaveF]

It's always nice to have a well produced guide with a decent description of a layout and a track plan, but they are quite rare.  So I rarely bother with a programme.

 

I also find that when I am planning a layout I prefer to start from prototype plans, even if I'm going to build a "might have been" station rather than making a model of a model.

 

David

[Talltim]

I'm not trying to start an argument, but why (unless you planning your own exhibition) do you need to know the layout dimensions?

[The Stationmaster]

I'm not trying to start an argument, but why (unless you planning your own exhibition) do you need to know the layout dimensions?

 

It can help to give folk an idea of what they can get into a particular space.

[40F]

It can help to give folk an idea of what they can get into a particular space.

 

 

Why not ask the exhibitor as they often carry publicity with them. With advent of digital cameras and the amout seen at shows surely enough photos are taken of layouts to ascertain track layouts etc. A guide can be useful but who pays for it the club or the visitor?

[cromptonnut]

Why not ask the exhibitor as they often carry publicity with them. With advent of digital cameras and the amout seen at shows surely enough photos are taken of layouts to ascertain track layouts etc. A guide can be useful but who pays for it the club or the visitor?

 

It should be included in the "sums" for the financial viability of the exhibition.  I'm not convinced it's an area that you can really scrimp much on.

[Zero Gravitas]

I've always thought that in a magazine, a track plan is essential - MRJ has always been somewhat frustrating in often not including track plans with layout articles; and I find myself trying to construct the track plan from the photographs (not always sucessfully).

 

However, magazines tend to have in-house grahics capabilities, and so track plans can be presented in a consistent format (BRM are best at this IMO) to a consistent quality.  In an exhibition program, the layout descriptions tend to be provided by the layout owners themselves; and whilst one paragraph of text is nominally similar in appearnace to another paragraph of text, the same is not true for diagrams.  So do you go with a wide variety of formats and drawing standards from the layout owners - or would you do all the diagrams "in house" to make sure they all fit and are legible, etc? 

 

And then, as the OP points out, track plans take up space and so inevitably push up the cost of the programme.  Sponsorship may help with that - but whatever happens, money to put on shows is finite, and if it's a choice between a better venue or track plans in the programme, I know what I'd take. (perhaps slightly reducio ad absurdam, but you see what I mean).

 

So whilst I agree it would be a "nice to have", I can understand why it is not done more often.

 

However, if you're at a show and you actually looking at the layouts, then you could always take a photo (as the good Stationmaster says) or even make a quick sketch on the program or a piece of paper.

 

And finally, to the HWDMRS show committee - if this is the most serious criticism of an altogether excellent show, then please stop worrying immediately. Some of the people, some of the time, etc.

 

Best Regards,

 

ZG.

[ColinK]

At the shows I've been to recently there seem to be two extremes of programmes. At one end of the scale there is the black & while booklet (or one sheet of A4) saying very little about each layout. These have always been free. I hardly bother with these and never keep them.

 

At the other end of the scale is the brochure, Wigan being an example, which includes for more info about each layout, photos and layout plans. I'm happy to pay for these and usually keep them. I personally find the layout plans and sizes very useful as I mght want to incorprate some of the ideas into my own layouts.

 

At one show, i think it was Kendal a few years ago, there was a small shunting layout which was really interesting. The owner gave me a A4 sheet containing the trackplan and a description of how it worked. I've still got that and plan to build someting similar (but to a different scale). So that's a third approach, something to give to interested visitors.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I always tried to include trackplans in my exhibition guides. But I totally accept the OP's point that it adds a lot to costs unless you print them so small as to be passably useless.

 

I don't have any archived copies but I seem to recall putting layout dimensions in the heading of the layout description.

 

In reality, it might be more effective to pay for a few photocopies of each layout's trackplan and distribute to those with a particularly strong interest.

[Rivercider]

I think ZG sums it all up nicely, plans are 'nice to have', but not essential.

If a plan is shown I would say details of the fiddle yard are also important

as that can sometimes determine whether a layout will 'work' effectively or not.

 

Layout dimensions are also important for the point the Stationmaster makes,

and sometimes the operator on duty is not the owner and does not have details to hand.

 

I have kept all my old exhibition guides and A4 sheets as a reminder of where I have been and what I have seen,

and I now give them marks as well, sad or what?

 

cheers

[BG John]

Producing a guide isn't that difficult. I did my first ones in the days before I had my own computer, and had to type up the text at work, print it on a dot matrix printer at a large size, photocopy it to reduce to actual size so the dots were less obvious, cut it all up, glue it onto sheets of plain paper, along with supplied track plans resized on the photocopier, plus the separately typed headings. Then I resized and pasted up the adverts that helped pay for it. Then waited for the floor plan to arrive, and hope the exhibition manager hadn't moved things around, so I needed to change it! Then off to the printers, followed by a session of folding and stapling it all together, while I was busy getting my layout ready to exhibit!

 

It's simple now you can just knock it all up on any home computer, and send/receive everything you need by e-mail!

[Phil Parker]

Drawing a layout plan is harder than many think. Yes, if you are a bit of a whizz with software you can do it but an awful lot of modellera aren't so the result, if you get one, will be little more than a scribble. Knowing how long it takes to assemble a guide, I can't see many wanting to sit and re-draw half the plans to bring them up to an acceptable standard. This is why magazines get the job done proffesionally, at a cost that is way in excess of what a club putting a show on could afford to throw at the guide.

 

To be honest, it's hard enough to get the trade to supply adverts in a form that can be slipped into the guide. Quite a few of these need to be created pretty much from scratch.

[BG John]

Drawing a layout plan is harder than many think. Yes, if you are a bit of a whizz with software you can do it but an awful lot of modellera aren't so the result, if you get one, will be little more than a scribble. Knowing how long it takes to assemble a guide, I can't see many wanting to sit and re-draw half the plans to bring them up to an acceptable standard.

Once upon a time, enough people managed quite well using a kind of long round thing that left a mark when you dragged it across a piece of paper. There was even a type where you could remove the marks with a rectangular rubbery kind of thing when you made a mistake. Even more amazingly, it didn't need any electricity!

[cromptonnut]

Drawing a layout plan is harder than many think. Yes, if you are a bit of a whizz with software you can do it but an awful lot of modellera aren't so the result, if you get one, will be little more than a scribble. Knowing how long it takes to assemble a guide, I can't see many wanting to sit and re-draw half the plans to bring them up to an acceptable standard. This is why magazines get the job done proffesionally, at a cost that is way in excess of what a club putting a show on could afford to throw at the guide.

 

In most clubs you have the woodwork expert, the electrical expert, the admin whizz, etc etc - I'm sure if you ask in most clubs there will be someone who has all the skills needed to do the job, it doesn't all have to fall to the exhibition manager even if, as is usually the case, 90% of the time it's the same half a dozen people doing everything.

[Oldddudders]

I think it all comes down to what the visitor wants from his/her experience at an exhibition. I will usually buy a guide - mainly because I assume the club makes a penny or two from selling them, and I'm all in favour of the club making a profit and probably continuing to run an exhibition, thankyou. If I look at the guide while there, it will mainly be to ensure I haven't missed the layouts in Hall B or whatever. Reading RMwebbers' comments on exhibitions, quite often they seem to not have seen a key layout, so a plan of the hall(s) is very useful - if you consult it at the time.

 

Track layouts hardly interest me at all. My own take on a layout is based upon scenery and structures - and how well it works. Derail, stall on every point, let trains bat round like a scalded cat, and I won't linger long. I can tell a junction from a terminus from a through station - probably - and if the track layout works for the operator, and the operation is slick and convincing, that's just fine for me.

[cp409067]

..... But first of all you have to consider what happens when last minute changes or substitutions occur, especially when N gauge modular layouts turn up and say "We've got an extra 6', fitting it in won't be a problem, will it?" .....

 

*

Speaking as an exhibitor of some experience with a number of layouts, I am amazed that the above has not already elicited a comment.

 

Is it not the case that any exhibitor arriving with a larger layout than previously agreed is both exceedingly bad mannered and extremely foolish? I would expect any exhibition manager worth his or her salt to offer a twofold response: (i) leave the extra bit in the van or car, and (ii) do not expect to be invited to exhibit again.

 

CP

[298]

*

Speaking as an exhibitor of some experience with a number of layouts, I am amazed that the above has not already elicited a comment.

 

Is it not the case that any exhibitor arriving with a larger layout than previously agreed is both exceedingly bad mannered and extremely foolish? I would expect any exhibition manager worth his or her salt to offer a twofold response: (i) leave the extra bit in the van or car, and (ii) do not expect to be invited to exhibit again.

 

CP

For the record and from memory, it happened with two exhibits at one shoe ibwas helping at and managed the floorplan for (we managed to fit everything in but I ended up having stern words about them standing in another layouts operating area), and again another event recently. The fact that they were modular might indicate a lack of planning or communication issues...